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Offlinedaba
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Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government
    #2610685 - 04/28/04 10:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

So the dilemma arises:

What prevents me from taking hold of this knife and killing my roommate?

1. Fear of get prosecuted.
2. Religion and afterlife, if I believed in either.
3. Personal integrity.

Negating those three, is it true that an ample amount humans are voracious creatures: that is to say, without laws, fear, or morality would life as we know it become more rampant and chaotic (not limited to just external life but internal cognition as well)?

This enigma is so multifaceted and penetrating that it shakes the very history of mankind. Person A chooses not to kill because he fears that he will go to jail. What about before his time, when we were primitive cavemen? Would he have killed, and because of this man did a government with physical consequences arise? Person B chooses not to kill because he fears not the law, but more so the "hell" that awaits him after his death. Suffice to say, was religion created to manage this man? Person C chooses not to kill because it is just not who he is. Was it because he was raised in a society where he was taught that killing was incorrect? What if he was raised in a barbaric society where he was taught to kill anyone who wasn't his own kinsman?

As a result, I question my own self and the society I am a denizen of. What am I truly, and is George Orwell's 1984 becoming diminutively fictional day by day? Without these social harnesses, my true character would shine. Am I really a killer or a subtle creature? Ask yourself these questions: WHO ARE YOU, and is the government (of all kinds, religious, political, and personal) really controlling us to an extent that utterly curtails a significant part of our psyche?

Please feel free to advocate/refute my thoughts with some sort of explanation.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2610718 - 04/28/04 10:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"that is to say, without laws, fear, or morality would life as we know it become more rampant and chaotic (not limited to just external life but internal cognition as well)? "

to simply put, it depends on the situation.

chaos and lawlessness is already here, I made a post regarding this "An interview with OG's and their philosophy"  you will see in that little bit of reading that jail isn't anything to these people because the war they fight to them is beyond law.  I'm going to go deeper later on after my car gets fixed on how this war is gone about and it's major cover up.  it's on the next page of this S&P :wink:

sorry to say that most of us are under the illusion that the law is in control. the dilemma is already here...look around.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (04/28/04 10:39 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2610765 - 04/28/04 10:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was just thinking...you live in the bay area daba!!!

you're right next to oakland which now has the highest murder rate per capita in the US..period. higher than LA (which comes in at second).

do yourself a favor sometime if you're ever in Sacramento.

there's a huge wall that's over 15 feet tall and as wide as 4-5 suburb houses put together filled with missing persons. this is kind of why the polly class lacy peterson is just crap, because no one else accounts for the hundreds upon hundreds of missing people each year. this is just north cali btw.

yes we are vicious, and what's worse, we have lost a lot of honour that went with our tenacity of killing.

as to your question of who you are...that's a great one! I would say that my personality nor my ego isn't me. my essential nature is just pure awareness. if your ego and personality can change, and while on shrooms your memory of yourself is taken away, you are left with your essence, awareness. damn wish I could go further into it, but I have to drop off my car now :P


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Governme [Re: kaiowas]
    #2610784 - 04/28/04 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting replies, I will go venture into that place near Sacramento, kaiowas.

By the way, are you a Joseph Heller fan?


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Governme [Re: daba]
    #2610808 - 04/28/04 11:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

oh shit ya!!!!

catch 22 has got to be one of THE funniest and most intense books I've read!

major major major major....  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2610825 - 04/28/04 11:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

4. Sanity


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OfflineSource
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2611071 - 04/28/04 12:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

kaiowas,

I live near Sacramento (actually east of Scaramento in the foothills), what is this place you're talking about?

Daba,
Good post. For me personally, I don't harm others because I have compassion for them. It may be argued that compassion is taught by society but I think I would have to disagree. Morality is taught by society, not compassion. Morality is the shadow of compassion.

Compassion arises spontaneously as our awareness opens up and we percieve directly that all beings are interconnected.

Compassion arising from a clearer view of life would imply a more "sane" view of life (if sanity is a measure of how close your perception is to reality). So, maybe sanity=compassion (sorry to hijack your idea Effed).

4. Sanity/Compassion

or

4. Sanity
5. Compassion


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2611076 - 04/28/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What prevents me from taking hold of this knife and killing my roommate?




1. love
2. respect for human life
3. dharma
4. my positive beliefs

Quote:

WHO ARE YOU, and is the government (of all kinds, religious, political, and personal) really controlling us to an extent that utterly curtails a significant part of our psyche?




I am a caring person who is interested in helping others. The government has no control over my psyche. Long ago I turned off the radio and television. I think for myself. I can explain my morals past "it says so in the bible."


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2611118 - 04/28/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Fear that you will be killed in return?

Its a basic animal drive, kill or be killed aye? Doing something without a proper motive might get you killed.


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What?


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2611655 - 04/28/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Personal morals are all that are keeping me from killing another being. Plus, sanity is overrated. Some people may say being gay is insane, while others would say being pagan is both gay and insane :d Furthermore, some claim that it is insane to have faith in the first place. 'Sanity' is just a label like 'being normal': the more you try to identify with the label, the more you drift away from its core meaning.
Most people wouldn't claim that soldiers doing their duty (whatever that means, we've all been handed out a brain, right?) are insane when they kill someone, but if you or I would shoot our next door neighbor to steal his cash, it wouldn't be acceptable. Isn't a soldier a mercenary too? An asassin, killing for cash - at least in this scenario. Which is preferable, killing for cash/a living, killing for fun, or killing out of spite?
"Neither" would be my call.
Having discussed sanity, let's move on to compassion. If you kill them with one shot, saving them from any future pain they might have to endure, isn't that putting them out of their misery, being compassionate?
The only real argument you can give, IMO, is that killing is not your style, because while ideals can be rationalised, so can their polar opposites. It's all subjective, and analogous to whether you like greasy hamburgers or not.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlined33p
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2612054 - 04/28/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
I was just thinking...you live in the bay area daba!!!

you're right next to oakland which now has the highest murder rate per capita in the US..period. higher than LA (which comes in at second).




Where did you get this information and what year was it based on? It seems quite wrong to me.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2612206 - 04/28/04 05:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think that despite our sometimes violent tendencies, most people will only kill if they feel they have good reason for doing so, or if they are caught up emotionally in the moment. Most people, I believe, have an intuitive understanding that they shouldn't kill people, especially those they see on a regular basis. It's how we survive in social groups. Without this innate understanding, society could collapse, and it'd be every person for themselves.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: silversoul7]
    #2612280 - 04/28/04 06:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i took mushrooms and realized that pain and pleasure are somewhat universal concepts, so why bring pain when i could bring pleasure.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: d33p]
    #2612826 - 04/28/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

this information was in the newspaper. and oakland has held the highest murder rate for at least the year before.

again its "per capita"


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: daba]
    #2612864 - 04/28/04 08:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

source

I don't want this thread to be hijacked this way, but I'll show even more evidence in my other post about how bad cali really is. it isn't for bragging rights...it's jsut to show how bad things are.



it'll show how that even with our "laws" things happen on a regular basis with little or no involvment with the law. they'll jsut keep making enough money on giving traffic tickets and dealign with accidents.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2612894 - 04/28/04 08:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

here's the number of missing children in 2002 alone, prepare to be disgusted

and more


I don't know where the wall is exactly located but I can find out if you want to visit it.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (04/28/04 09:01 PM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2612931 - 04/28/04 09:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

so now I think we can establish here just based on the records for two years that lawlessness is already about and chaos is here. humans have shown time and again...since our time began that there is a viciousness to us.

but I think the label us all as such is a little extreme. it depends on your experience. this is why the question you asked..."who are you" is so important. if you notice that your personality can and will change over the years, you will notice that depends on how we deal with the situation...this is not our essential true nature. our nature is pure awareness, everything besides that is just what we "think" we are.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlined33p
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2613084 - 04/28/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ummmmm the site you posted says that oakland is infact not the murder capital.

Oaklands murder per capita is around 28. In DC its about 45. In detroit 42. Baltimore is about 38. In gary its around 60. All of these are per 100,000 people.

LA is 17.5


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: d33p]
    #2613116 - 04/28/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Oakland,California has more homicides than any city in America with fewer than 500,000 people. How do u like them apples Chicago?"

I guess I forgot the word city, did not account for small towns in the middle of indiana, my bad...


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlined33p
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Re: Why aren't we killing our neighbors? - People & Government [Re: kaiowas]
    #2613151 - 04/28/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You were talking per capita. That quote there does not describe a per capita murder rate so it is worthless.

But anyway it is still wrong. New Orleans has a population of 484,674 people. They had about 257 murders in 2002. Oakland had about 104. Over double, that makes that paper fairly far off.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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