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Short Vs. Tall Jars
    #26100436 -

With the PF Tek method, I noticed they used tall skinny 250mL jars to colonize!

Would the shorter 250mL work too or is that too much surface area?


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“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
- Albert Einstein

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Fluzzball]
    #26100459 -

Oh yea, short wide mouth or taller regular mouth, dont really matter. Both work great :thumbup:

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: El Chupacabra]
    #26101347 -

I prefer the shorter wide mouth 250ml jars because it's easier to birth the cakes from them than from the tall skinny ones.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Silver_Peaks]
    #26101386 -

Silver_Peaks said:
I prefer the shorter wide mouth 250ml jars because it's easier to birth the cakes from them than from the tall skinny ones.


I just birthed 7 'regular mouth' jars and was worried about this, but turns out that at 100% colonization the cake shrinks enough that it is no problem getting them out. Almost dumped one in the trash pouring the dry verm layer off because it came out so easily.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: pico13]
    #26101741 -

It's supposed to be the wide mouth jars


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26101795 -

I like the shorties because the lids are interchangeable with my pint and quart jars. Nice to only have one size lid if you decide to upgrade to the plastic lids

I have had success with both. How big are your hands?


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Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.

Edited by ichugwindex (07/11/19 08:57 AM)

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26101822 -

They both work, no problem. Same volume, and opening's as wide as the jar for both types. There's little difference imo.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26101917 -

Soccrates said:
It's supposed to be the wide mouth jars


I think that's an outdated recommendation. I know it was a thing that supposedly myc has a hard time colonizing that much verticle area of a cake for some reason, but it's been basically debunked over time.

I've regurgitated that same advice and got corrected and set straight somewhat recently.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: El Chupacabra]
    #26102107 -

Its not outdated...pf tek calls for wide mouth jars. It's supposed to be wide mouth. I didn't mean regular mouth won't work. I only said it that way because the op was doubting that the wide mouth would work. That is what was originally prescribed.

Idk. I never bought wide mouth jars. But it seems to me that the regular mouth jars I did pf with, took a long fucking time to colonize.

Also bods tek on brf cakes says, regarding alternate containers to keep the cake short and wide

Yeah, both work. Guess i should have put that in too. But it's supposed to be wide mouth


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26102122 -

:shrug: my talls finish colonizing in about 3-4 weeks, but i haven't done a direct comparison because talls is what was available and i got enough for my needs.

Substitute jars aren't that difficult either if you're smart about it like you're saying. But that may be a bit offtopic from the op's question.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26102134 -

It shouldn't matter too much. I haven't noticed a huge difference between the two. Honestly, my pint jars colonize in about the same time as my half pints. But I don't run MS, so your mileage may vary.

The MOST important thing people screw up is wrong grade verm. UTSE and there's some good info from established members. I've noticed a huge difference.

The cakes I have that take 3 weeks off LI are tall half pints with fine/dusty verm. The ones that are 1-2 weeks are short fat wide mouth with coarse verm.

The other mistake many make is not using all four injection holes. I have some pint jars with fine verm from 6/7 that aren't even halfway done. I've birthed and fruited other cakes since then.

Tall jars with fine verm: very slow.
Tall jars with medium verm: slow.
Tall jars with coarse verm: good.

Short jars with fine verm: very slow.
Short jars with medium verm: slow
Short jars with coarse verm: fast

This is just my experience in the last few months, but over the years I've noticed short and fat are better than the tall boys. But again, if there is a difference it's very minimal, and it's the verm and injection sites that matter a lot more.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Lonesome Picker]
    #26102154 -

Fine verm works best. Coarser grades hold less water, mix less evenly, and don't filter as well.

Regular pints took longer than half pints in every attempt for me. They also tended to get bacterial near the end. To compensate, I only fill them half way and use a lid filter instead of dry verm.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25110988


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: LtLurker]
    #26102178 -

LtLurker said:
:shrug: my talls finish colonizing in about 3-4 weeks, but i haven't done a direct comparison because talls is what was available and i got enough for my needs.

Substitute jars aren't that difficult either if you're smart about it like you're saying. But that may be a bit offtopic from the op's question.


When I did them, it took like 2 months. They took so long they became a permanent fixture in my house. Then like anothermonth in the fc.

I could noc popcorn and spawn trays and get those flushed before them goddamn half pints colonized. Maybe I just suck at pf

Also-strongly resisting the urge to make bad joke about your tek


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Edited by Soccrates (07/11/19 12:20 PM)

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: LtLurker]
    #26102181 -

The most important part of vermiculite is to avoid the super-fine grade. It makes for a better DVB, but doesn't leave a ton of space. The most important part of how BRF cakes work is moisture and space.

RR says fine but not super fine. FF says coarse and not fine.

And of course the grade of verm isn't going to matter too much when you're not fruiting BRF cakes as cakes. It definitely doesn't matter much when you're using them in a tray.

Coarse is definitely the best for fluffing up bulk subs. But I don't want to muddy the waters too much here.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26102186 -

Soccrates said:
LtLurker said:
:shrug: my talls finish colonizing in about 3-4 weeks, but i haven't done a direct comparison because talls is what was available and i got enough for my needs.

Substitute jars aren't that difficult either if you're smart about it like you're saying. But that may be a bit offtopic from the op's question.


When I did them, it took like 2 months. They took so long they became a permanent fixture in my house. Then like anothermonth in the fc.

I could noc popcorn and spawn trays and get those flushed before them goddamn half pints colonized. Maybe I just suck at pf

Also-strongly resisting the urge to make bad joke about your tek


Sounds to me like you had another issue going on, not the jars.

I like bad jokes, go for it.

@lonesomepicker - RR's notes on pf tek are probably old. There's more updated materials and trials since then. IDK what you mean by super fine, but if you look at the current tek(and what i use) the verm is nearly like sand, with minor pieces.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: LtLurker]
    #26102201 -

There's some brands of verm that are just dust. Regardless if fine or coarse or medium are any better than the others, the dusty stuff should be avoided at all costs. That's when they really take forever and screw up. I have one that's 2.5 months old and is still not even done. It's from the bottom of the bag of fine verm, but there are some brands that are all verm-dust. Like not even visible flakes.

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Lonesome Picker]
    #26102210 -

:shrug: never had this problem with the dusty bits at the bottom either. Maybe you got something else going on. The slowing down/stalling sounds more likely to be a bacteria or insufficient GE problem. Foil, extra tape or filter on lids, anything like that going on with your jars? Are you packing them instead of just loading light and fluffy?


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Edited by LtLurker (07/11/19 12:34 PM)

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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #26102219 -

LtLurker said:
Soccrates said:
LtLurker said:
:shrug: my talls finish colonizing in about 3-4 weeks, but i haven't done a direct comparison because talls is what was available and i got enough for my needs.

Substitute jars aren't that difficult either if you're smart about it like you're saying. But that may be a bit offtopic from the op's question.


When I did them, it took like 2 months. They took so long they became a permanent fixture in my house. Then like anothermonth in the fc.

I could noc popcorn and spawn trays and get those flushed before them goddamn half pints colonized. Maybe I just suck at pf

Also-strongly resisting the urge to make bad joke about your tek


Sounds to me like you had another issue going on, not the jars.

I like bad jokes, go for it.

@lonesomepicker - RR's notes on pf tek are probably old. There's more updated materials and trials since then. IDK what you mean by super fine, but if you look at the current tek(and what i use) the verm is nearly like sand, with minor pieces.


Well your tek says no pressure cooker needed, so right off the bat you're full of shit.

Anyway, back to actual discussion- Idk what the problem would be. I used the same spores, pc, etc. in the same sitting you inoculate the cakes and other things that worked much better. They never contaminated on me, always fruited EVENTUALLY.

Maybe this would explain my problem with blending my own rice flour being such a pain. I could have been ocd and made it too fine? Idk, I may try again one day. Currently I'm unable to grow any actives though, sadly. Hoping I can find a solution soon


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Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26102224 -

lol worth it. :thumbup:


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Short Vs. Tall Jars [Re: Soccrates]
    #26102281 -

My jars got infinitely faster when I stopped making my own rice flour. I didn't realize how bad it actually was until I had them side-by-side. The pulverized kind is absolutely the best. Perhaps you're packing the jars down too much? Or maybe rice chunks are getting in there.

Staying fluffy is very important. I'll load my jars and give them one quick little smack against the heel of my hand just to get rid of big pockets of empty space.

The slowest colonizing jars have always had something in common: superfine verm, packed down too tight, BRF being too chunky, temperature, not utilizing all four injection points, or depriving them of light. Or any mix thereof.

LtLurker: after I germ and xfer, I'll do an agar sandwich to make sure I get it clean from bacteria since I'm sending my spores out to others. GE wouldn't be affected by a dust cover of foil. You could have a single 1/64" hole in the lid and it would still be more GE than the cake could ever need. Not just that, there's plenty of oxygen in the jar and the spaces between the verm in the DVB. Even an incredibly tight foil covering should have minimal effect on a cake colonizing. I know that's controversial here and people freak out about it or whatever, but there's any number of things that are infinitely worse for colonization.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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