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Mycomindfulness
Stranger
Registered: 12/29/16
Posts: 20
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Rye moisture: jars stalling
#26097255 - 07/09/19 12:07 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have been working with Rye, having mostly success the first year or so, and then it seemed like the mushroom gods decided to play some games with me.
I have religiously followed the RR tek, or the shorter "Boil, sit for 2 hours, boil sit for an hour, then boil and dry" tek... same result.
In both cases, the grain takes at least 12 hours to dry in the strainer before it passes the "kleenex" test. And in most cases even after that, when I jar the grains, PC them for 90 to 120 minutes at 15 PSI, using a few varieties of lids, with tin foil covering during PC. I then Inoculate them with GTG or Agar, and will take off and get about 1/2 to 3/4 colonized and then turn a nasty rotten brown, stall completely, and finally turn completely sour.
I have thrown out literally dozens of jars, coming back to the drawing board, reading and reading here about the various nuances on rye teks.
I seem to be missing something simple, and am at my wits end.
If anyone has any wisdom, I am an open book to learn.
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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks



Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
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I feel your pain. Rye berry preparation can be a bit tricky. Hitting the correct moisture level is key. Unfortunately this is something only experience can teach you.
IMO, the RR rye prep tek is a bit dated. When I first started cultivating 10 years ago, boiling rye for 10 minutes after a soak was definitely the way to do it.
The rye grain of today is different from back then. Nowadays if I bring a batch of rye even up to 160 - 170°F after a soak, kernels will start bursting open. It just seems more delicate. At this stage, the kernals (overall) will be underhydrated. If you dry the grains out enough to pass the Kleenex test, the grains will be even more dry
My solution to this problem was to combine two different teks together. RR's rye prep tek and Spitball Jedi's rye prep tek. Here is my procedure...
Add water to a cooking vessel
Bring water to 160°F
Add rye and gypsum to cooking vessel Put lid on, and let grains soak for at least 8 hours
After the soak, bring the contents of the cooking vessel up to 150°F on medium heat. Start checking for proper hydration
--what you're looking for-- The kernels should be "almost" hydrated. Meaning the inside of most of the grains should look mostly gray with just a sliver of white still in the middle. Keep grains on heat until the desired hydration level is met
Drain hot water from grains
Rinse grains thuroughly with cold water
Let water drain for a bit
Add grains to jars
PC for two hours
On a different note, it would appear either that your PC cycles are not properly sterilizing its contents, and bbn or your inoculant is not clean. If you have some pics of the cultures you used, that would be tremendously helpful.
Hang in there, once get this stage of cultivation down, it becomes a lot more fun.
Edited by WeavieWonder (07/09/19 02:54 AM)
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Mad Hatter
10/6



Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 169
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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After you pc the grains do they look wet? A good amount of the grains in those jars look wet are they that wet after pcing or just after colonizing for so time? If there are wet zones of grain in your jars after pcing you can shake the jars before inoculating to redistribute moisture. (better to figure out and fix problem of wet grains only recommend as a simple/quick solution)
If they are that wet after pcing the added moisture would facilitate bacteria and can cause mycelium to stall or retard growth.
If they only become wet after sometime colonizing there is probably a mistake happening in your sterile procedure during inoculation.
I follow RR's tek for the 12-24 hour soak and 10 minute boil and dry my grains in a strainer. 12 hours seems like a rather long dry time. Are you stirring your grains when they are drying? I stir the grains in the strainer every time i notice the top layer looks dry and a good long stir and shakes when i first dumb into strainer (dumb while water is still boiling). i keep stirring till all the grains look dry or are cool/cold to the touch. I find this will give me a more uniform moisture.
This tek still works perfect for me but i do use the same rye grain as RR does in his video.
Do you purge all the air out of your pc (10 minutes on constant steam).
have you tried leaving blank jars (jars sterilized but not inoculated) this will help you find out if its your sterile procedure when inoculating jars or if your not properly sterilizing jars.
Has this problem only been recent? Environmental factors of your area can play a role in contaminants. I know I have to be more cautious this time of year with my sterile procedure due to high humidity in my area. I dont use a sab much but i can definitely seeing this being more problematic with one vs a flowhood
What temp are you incubating at? If your jars are tightly packed a lot of heat can be produced through thermogenesis (they do not look like they are just thought i add some more info). higher temps also facilitate bacteria.
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



Registered: 11/02/11
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Re: Rye moisture: jars stalling [Re: Mad Hatter]
#26097546 - 07/09/19 06:30 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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i personally think overcooking is the death of a good jar. too many burst grains is a huge problem when some people say its no big deal. rinsing the grains after cooking really helps too. proper drying is critical. the grains MUST be loose and dry before the pc. too long of a pc cycle is also detrimental. 1:35 max.
ive had jars that look just like that. too wet. too sticky. not clean, not loose.
while they might be quite sanitary right out of the pc, if you dont give a good environment for the myc to grow, they stall out and bacterial endospores are actually able to repair themselves and colonize.
then you get jars like yours. sure they might still work. better luck next time
Edited by BeefSupremeJr (07/09/19 06:32 AM)
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JHOVA
Post whore


Registered: 02/17/17
Posts: 4,727
Loc:
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Re: Rye moisture: jars stalling [Re: Mad Hatter]
#26097551 - 07/09/19 06:33 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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You guys do some long ass prep. A 30 minute hot soak works for Milo, millet, oats, and wheat so far for me. Bring a pot to boiling then dump your grain and kill the heat. The key is drying your grain for 2 or 3 hours afterwards. No burst grain and fully hydrated grains. Try that method out if you don't want to spend a whole day prepping grain.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,382
Loc: eating the cats
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Quote:
JHOVA said: You guys do some long ass prep.
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Mycomindfulness
Stranger
Registered: 12/29/16
Posts: 20
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Thank you all for the help... You folks on this board are amazing.
I believe I have discovered the problem, thanks to these replies... My oven is not getting hot enough to boil the large pot I have been using, and it has been taking almost an hour of heat to get to boil point. After reading this thread this morning, I tried boiling them after the soak from last night, and with a small pot, boiling water from a kettle, and a 5-7 minute boil the grains came out looking exactly like they should.
So the issue was, IMO, that the grains were in the hot water for over an hour, and thus causing the grains to pop, leaving me with a sticky mess. In the jars now and looking perfect... now to PC and inoculate!
Edited by Mycomindfulness (07/09/19 09:59 AM)
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k5hd2y
Depersonalized & Complete


Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 675
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Nice avatar mycomindfulness!
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Mycomindfulness
Stranger
Registered: 12/29/16
Posts: 20
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Re: Rye moisture: jars stalling [Re: JHOVA]
#26097826 - 07/09/19 10:03 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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thanks! I will give this a try on my next run...
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Shenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
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Re: Rye moisture: jars stalling [Re: Shenmue]
#26097846 - 07/09/19 10:17 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also PC for 2 hours. Make sure you shake your jars before you inoculate to make the moisture content as even as possible. A lot of those old Let's Grow Mushrooms videos still work great lol. I place my pot of ryeberries in the refrigerator for 12 out of the 24 hours to prevent the smell from getting to bad. I place my pot of wild bird seeds in the refrigerator for 24 hours because the smell becomes unbearable for me even after 12 hours lol. It always works for me but everyone has there own way of doing things .
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Aendir
Passionate



Registered: 01/04/19
Posts: 145
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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Re: Rye moisture: jars stalling [Re: Shenmue]
#26099804 - 07/10/19 08:59 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do mine like RR in his video and it's working well. One mistake I did is to put too much grain and not enough water. As soon as I respected the ratio that Bod described on his tek, everything was perfect
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Edited by Aendir (07/10/19 09:01 AM)
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