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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) * 2
    #26096168 -

So I dug a bit deeper into the topic of lemon balm as a method of smoothing out trips and easing anxiety as was suggested to me by Sabnock (I think) here on the shroomery.  During my digging I found that in psychedelic therapy they are currently looking for alternatives to benzos for killing trips gone too far to be therapeutic and the current best seems to be hops leaves after lemon balm. Unfortunately I don't currently have access to the papers as they're on MedScape and I need my wife to send me them as PDFs, however in the studies they used 3-4 grams of lemon balm beforehand and then 20g fresh hops leaves. This combination works as well as diazepam in my experience.

I took around 8g of fresh lemon balm shortly before taking a dose of 4-AcO-DMT and the experience rapidly degraded to the point that I became suicidally panicked and my wife was unable to help me redirect the negative thoughts I was having and I decided it would be best for me to chew the 10g quid of hops leaves I had made prior to dosing. I ripped the massive cigar of a quid into 2 sections and chewed for 10 minutes before the bitterness got me and I spit, roughly 10 minutes after chewing the leaves there was a marked decrease in intensity and a clarity of thought. I have never aborted a trip before this and hope never to again but I will definitely keep a quid or 2 around in case it is needed.

The beauty of this combination is that both lemon balm and hops vines are readily available either in nurseries and online and both are easy to grow. Hops is the fastest growing plant I've encountered and lemon balm puts out many hundreds of leaves in no time. I feel this is a worthwhile addition to anyone's tripping supplies and in my experience with it albeit limited seems to be superior to benzos in that it did not kill the trip, just reduced the anxiety to a manageable level.

Edited by Lophophora (07/08/19 01:59 PM)

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26096251 -

good information. thank you

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26096252 -

I hadn't heard this about hops; thanks for posting.  This is an important topic for trip sitters.


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Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Psuper]
    #26096312 -

Interesting, i'll have to check out the Hops leaves. Yeah once again idk the dosage of fresh Lemon Balm leaves compared to dried, i just use 3 to 4.5 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf and i've never encountered an issue, it's always smoothed things out pretty well, even newbies i've given full doses of 4-ACO or Psilohuasca or Ayahuasca to along with the usual dose of Lemon Balm haven't ever had any issues. But Hops could very well be worth looking into as well, so thanks for bringing that to our attention.


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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26096337 -

Lemon balm definitely smoothes things out a lot, had absolutely no problem until one minor physical sensation sent my mind towards a whole deal of "get out, get out, make it stop, get it out of me, It's never going to stop" I made several attempts to engage in activities other than my planned laying in darkness to snap myself out of it (eg; talking to my wife, talking to my neighbour and passing him a bit of some prime bud, working in my garden) but was unable to. Still seems like a therapeutic trip to me though as I haven't felt truly suicidal since this trip and it's been a few weeks.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26096345 -

I'm just clipping and drying the leaves now, save them for tripping use year round. Probably freeze the fresh hops leaves since I'll need to quid them if I end up using them. May experiment with a bit of gotu kola (Centella asiatica) instead of lemon balm at some point since I acquired a vine and it is supposedly mildly anxiolytic.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26096399 -

Lophophora said:
Lemon balm definitely smoothes things out a lot, had absolutely no problem until one minor physical sensation sent my mind towards a whole deal of "get out, get out, make it stop, get it out of me, It's never going to stop" I made several attempts to engage in activities other than my planned laying in darkness to snap myself out of it (eg; talking to my wife, talking to my neighbour and passing him a bit of some prime bud, working in my garden) but was unable to. Still seems like a therapeutic trip to me though as I haven't felt truly suicidal since this trip and it's been a few weeks.


Yeah music with headphones helps me out a lot, takes my attention away from the intense body sensations if i get them and helps me focus on something more positive, which in turn can open up my headspace/mindset and expand into different directions, music helps get things flowing forwards. Though it's best to listen to music from the get go, like as it's kicking in right before the come up hits, rather than in the midst of the come up, though in the midst of the come up can be good too, i just find that if i start listening to music as things are kicking in rather than when i'm feeling on edge due to the come up, it's easier to go with the flow and surrender to the experience.


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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26096403 -

Music usually helps but I had initially decided on silent darkness, probably won't be doing that again for a while. Oh well, it's all an experience and it can all be learned from once one has returned.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora] * 1
    #26098531 -

One point I want to clarify is that the hops leaves require the lemon balm to be active in the system, it is the synergy between the two that makes this work. Not sure if I made that clear enough seeing as I wrote followed by which I could see being taken as an alternative. I am not sure about the hops flowers but I'll definitely test that out as I won't need all them for a couple batches of beer.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26100561 -

Rhodiola rosea root is the preferred herb for when MDMA sessions go off, makes sense as it is also strongly antipyretic.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26100701 -

Do you have the title of the article you read? I couldn't find anything.

Lemon balm definitely does something for me, but IME even with 5+ grams it's subtle. Almost like drinking half a beer.

Hops are interesting with their muscle relaxing and supposed anxiolytic effect. Mixing the 2 would be interesting, I'll have to give it a go. I'm extremely skeptical of using it to kill a trip though. Psych meds like Trazadone are the only "trip killers" I'd trust just because of their method of action on the selected receptors.

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: Lophophora]
    #26100742 -

.

Edited by The Thing (08/12/19 05:13 AM)

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: The Thing]
    #26100947 -

There’s a whole slew of other plants with gabaergic alkaloids that I think deserve attention for this kind of thing as well, maybe experimenting with different combinations of them would prove interesting.

For example; kava kava, chamomile, rosemary (same gaba alkaloid as in lemon balm “rosmarinic acid”), valeriana officianalis (maybe other sp. as well I have no clue), and passionflower just to make a few popular ones of the top of my head

There’s even a little research paper about lemon balm + valeriana https://clinmedjournals.org/articles/jsdm/journal-of-sleep-disorders-and-management-jsdm-3-016.pdf

I’ve always wanted to figure out the best combination of these plants for a plant derived “trip killer” or more like a “trip soother” alternative. Maybe even some mixture of some type of extraction(s) from these various plants would be really cool as well.

Also it’s worth noting a strong red vein of Kratom will knock me on my ass toward the end of an lsd trip, it’s great if you want to comfortably sleep towards the end.


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Edited by The lurker (07/10/19 07:22 PM)

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Re: Lemon balm and hops leaves as alternative to benzodiazepines (trip killer) [Re: feevers]
    #26101402 -

Quote:
feevers said: Lemon balm definitely does something for me, but IME even with 5+ grams it's subtle. Almost like drinking half a beer.


Just curious, do you mean it's subtle on it's own or in combination with Psychedelics? It is subtle on it's own, but with a Psychedelic or Cannabis it's pretty noticeable to me at 3 to 4.5 grams. Also, do you happen to drink alcohol somewhat regularly by any chance? One thing i've wondered about is alcohol or benzo consumption in regular users causing a tolerance and perhaps that may cause a reduction in effect of the Lemon Balm. But yeah i mean it is a fairly mild herb in general, but with Lemon Balm and Cannabis the Cannabis really highlights how much the Lemon Balm is effecting me and it reminds me of an alcohol or benzo for sure, and with a Psychedelic it really cuts back on the intensity during the come up, especially with oral DMT and cuts back on the Adrenergic intensity ime.


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