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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good]
    #26093963 - 07/06/19 11:24 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)



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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblelife is good
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Registered: 07/03/18
Posts: 1,205
Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26093972 - 07/06/19 11:31 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Oh. I'm not a fan really.

He was brought up by incredibly messed up people to be the "Messiah."

He denounced them, and he wasn't exactly the same as them, (or not by any means,) but just not really for me.

For instance, one video close to that one, "You're all afraid!" er... I get the shock value but I don't agree with making statements like that.

:sun:


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I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26093977 - 07/06/19 11:36 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I can understand that. For me he really helped me to see that actually all these spiritual words and ideas are really nothing but wants, words, and ideas, desire, that the living reality is something you can never put your finger on.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good]
    #26093980 - 07/06/19 11:39 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

life is good said:

He was brought up by incredibly messed up people to be the "Messiah."

He denounced them, and he wasn't exactly the same as them, (or not by any means,) but just not really for me.




That was Jiddu Krishnamurti, not UG. :popcorn:


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Invisiblelife is good
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26093982 - 07/06/19 11:42 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)





All about simplicity.





Like Bankei with the simplicity.  Liezi is one that comes to mind as well; he was from Taoism rather than Zen.


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I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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Invisiblelife is good
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Middleman]
    #26093983 - 07/06/19 11:42 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

life is good said:

He was brought up by incredibly messed up people to be the "Messiah."

He denounced them, and he wasn't exactly the same as them, (or not by any means,) but just not really for me.




That was Jiddu Krishnamurti, not UG. :popcorn:




Thanks.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Middleman]
    #26093990 - 07/06/19 11:50 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

life is good said:

He was brought up by incredibly messed up people to be the "Messiah."

He denounced them, and he wasn't exactly the same as them, (or not by any means,) but just not really for me.




That was Jiddu Krishnamurti, not UG. :popcorn:




UG was actually trained for enlightenment by his family from an early age. They believed he was one who had come very close to achieving it in his previous life right from his birth as a child. They were all linked in with the theosophical society like Jiddu too. The stuff about ultimately rejecting his teachers and heritage holds true in his case also.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26093992 - 07/06/19 11:51 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Right, but Jiddu was supposed to be World Teacher.


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Invisiblelife is good
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good]
    #26093993 - 07/06/19 11:52 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Don't eat popcorn so fast :sun:

Yeah - different then. I still don't agree with statmenets like "You're all afraid," but I do appreciate;

“My interest is to point out to you that you can walk, and please throw away all those crutches. If you are really handicapped, I wouldn’t advise you to do any such thing. But you are made to feel by other people that you are handicapped so that they could sell you those crutches. Throw them away and you can walk. That’s all that I can say. ‘If I fall....’ - that is your fear. Put the crutches away, and you are not going to fall.”
― U.G. Krishnamurti

Still. . .

I think Sri Ramana is in a class by hismelf.


Freewill and destiny are ever existent. Destiny is the result of past action; it concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit it. Why are you concerned about it? Why do you pay attention to it. Freewill and destiny last as long as the body lasts. But jnana transcends both. The Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and of other factors.

There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. One is to enquire for whom is this destiny and discover that only the ego is bound by destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent.

The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realizing one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou oh Lord' and giving up all sense of 'I' and mine, and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, whether you achieve this effacement through self-enquiry or bhakti marga (Path).;


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Middleman]
    #26093994 - 07/06/19 11:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, all that jazz is some really strange stuff. I've heard that people thought he was Maitreya or the second coming of Christ. Was it Blatavsky who started it all? I don't know I'm not really up to speed with it.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26094009 - 07/07/19 12:02 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I don't dig that far back either, but UG's story is fascinating. He even met Ramana. Sorry we derailed your thread PocketLady. :zaphod:


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Invisiblelife is good
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Registered: 07/03/18
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26094013 - 07/07/19 12:06 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Krishnamurti also maintained that the reason people came to him (and to gurus) was to find solutions for their everyday real problems, and/or for solutions to a fabricated problem, namely, the search for spirituality and enlightenment. He insisted that this search is caused by the cultural environment, which demands conformity of individuals as it simultaneously places within them the desire to be special – the achievement of enlightenment thus viewed as a crowning expression of an individual's "specialness" and uniqueness. Consequently, the desire for enlightenment is exploited by gurus, spiritual teachers, and other "sellers of shoddy goods", who pretend to offer various ways to reach that goal. According to Krishnamurti, all these facilitators never deliver, and cannot ever deliver, since the goal itself (i.e. enlightenment), is unreachable.[25]




Quote:

U.G. said:
I have no teaching. There is nothing to preserve. Teaching implies something that can be used to bring about change. Sorry, there is no teaching here, just disjointed, disconnected sentences. What is there is only your interpretation, nothing else. For this reason there is not now nor will there ever be any kind of copyright for whatever I am saying. I have no claims.[22]

I am forced by the nature of your listening to always negate the first statement with another statement. Then the second statement is negated by a third and so on. My aim is not some comfy dialectical thesis but the total negation of everything that can be expressed.




It's certainly interesting that they had such similar stories.

I think in the case of U.G., he got there more or less but only after a lot of work on it.

The philosopher Nagarjuna comes to mind about that quote. He is one who expounded on Shunyata or emptiness.

sarvaṃ ca yujyate tasya śūnyatā yasya yujyate
sarvaṃ na yujyate tasya śūnyaṃ yasya na yujyate

All is possible when emptiness is possible.
Nothing is possible when emptiness is impossible.

T.N. Hanh summarizes this in today's world by saying, 'Because of emptiness, everything is possible.'


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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Invisiblelife is good
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26094026 - 07/07/19 12:19 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I think (one) difference between them is that Ramana discovered it at such an early age. There's a picture of him at an early age, sitting outside a cave, at Arunachala that's pretty awesome.

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Yeah, all that jazz is some really strange stuff. I've heard that people thought he was Maitreya or the second coming of Christ. Was it Blatavsky who started it all? I don't know I'm not really up to speed with it.




Yes, it was pretty unfortunate.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good]
    #26094060 - 07/07/19 12:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Sorry we derailed your thread PocketLady. :zaphod:




It's okay. I forgive you :trustme:

Seriously though, it's a good conversation.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good]
    #26094101 - 07/07/19 01:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Funny enough, of the modern sages my personal view is that it was Ramana who went just about as far as you can get without complete enlightenment and UG who actually got there. Then there are a couple of others like Ramakrishna and Anandamayi Ma who at least flew damn close to the sun. I don't think it's good to place these kind of guys in some ranking order though.

There's only one video somewhere where UG actually calls himself enlightened although he uses the hindu terminology, Brahmanya. The quote is "So I am brahmanya, I think... I need to wash my mouth out with soap now." :lol:

If you're interested to learn some more about UG then I found it was interesting reading some of the stories by some of the people who "toured" with him a bit. Goner by Louis Brawley is a pretty good book.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblelife is good
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #26094114 - 07/07/19 02:13 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

'It is axiomatic that one who is a Guru in this supreme sense of having realized his identity with the Absolute does not say so, inasmuch as there is no ego left to affirm the identity. Also he does not say that he has disciples, for, being beyond otherness, there can be no relationship for him.

However when a devotee was genuinely distressed and seeking a solution he would sometimes reassure him in a way that left no room for doubt. An English disciple, Major Chadwick, kept a record of such an assurance given to him in the year 1940:

Ch. Bhagavan says he has no disciples?

Bh. Yes.

Ch. He also says that a Guru is necessary if one wishes to attain Liberation?

Bh. Yes.

Ch. What then must I do? Has my sitting here all these years been just a waste of time? Must I go and look for some Guru in order to receive initiation seeing that Bhagavan says he is not a Guru?

Bh. What do you think brought you here such a long distance and made you remain so long? Why do you doubt? If there had been any need to seek a Guru elsewhere you would have gone away long ago.

Ch. Then Bhagavan does have disciples! Bh. As I said, from Bhagavan’s point of view there are no disciples; but from that of the disciple the Grace of the Guru is like an ocean. If he comes with a cup he will only get a cupful. It is no use complaining of the niggardliness of the ocean; the bigger the vessel the more he will be able to carry. It is entirely up to him.

Ch. Then to know whether Bhagavan is my Guru or not is just a matter of faith, if Bhagavan will not admit it.

Bh. (Sitting straight up, turning to the interpreter and speaking with great emphasis). Ask him, does he want me to give him a written document?

Professor Venkatramiah records in his diary that he said to Mrs. Piggott, an English visitor, “Realization is the result of the Guru’s Grace more than of teachings, lectures, meditations, etc. These are only secondary but that is the primary and essential cause.”

When asked whether he gave initiation Sri Bhagavan always avoided a direct answer. But the initiation by look was a very real thing. Sri Bhagavan would turn to the devotee, his eyes fixed upon him with blazing intentness. The luminosity, the power of his eyes pierced into one, breaking down the thought-process. Sometimes it was as though an electric current was passing through one, sometimes a vast peace, a flood of light. One devotee has described it: “Suddenly Bhagavan turned his luminous, transparent eyes on me. Before that I could not stand his gaze for long. Now I looked right back into those terrible, wonderful eyes, how long I could not tell. They held me in a sort of vibration distinctly audible to me.” Always it was followed by the feeling, the indubitable conviction, that one had been taken up by Sri Bhagavan, that henceforth he was in charge, he was guiding. Those who knew would perceive when such an initiation took place, but it would usually be inconspicuous; it might happen during the chanting of the Vedas or the devotee might feel a sudden impulse to go to Sri Bhagavan before daybreak or at some time when few or none would be present. The initiation by silence was equally real. It entered into those who turned to Sri Bhagavan in their hearts without being able to go bodily to Tiruvannamalai. Sometimes it was given in a dream, as with Natesa Mudaliar.'


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: life is good] * 2
    #26133288 - 08/13/19 06:01 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

In fact the stage after the first kind of meditation is to absorb into the Isness of BEING. This opens new planes and dimensions of existence where one continuously realises the nature of oneself as SatChidAnanda. One realises themselves to be composed of Living Knowing, Divine Knowledge, and the feeling of this Divine Knowledge is direct experience of Divine Knowledge as Direct Reality. Then one can zoom in and out of any aspect of focus on any intrinsic or extrinsic part of this Knowing and act from any individual identity or as the whole. So you can experience being mathematical equations and it begins from there.


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Secret of Secrets [Re: crkhd]
    #26142242 - 08/19/19 12:39 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Re is real, jah?
So it's real that therefore we have grammar and context and syntax.. Phonics isn't for beginners..

Phonics is for the rest of us based on need and priority of the general direction of information as it flows..!

So what does the word "real" mean anyways?


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