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OfflineEdmunter
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Laminar build
    #26092698 - 07/06/19 06:51 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Right I finally have the finances to do it.  Im building the hood.  Can you double check this for me and let me know its correct. 

This filter https://www.jfilters.com/i/UMP78142424/ultima-mp78-24x24
needs 602.802m³/hr at 100Pa
on this chart it says Its number 7 RVK 160 E2 -L1 or number 1 RVK200 E2 A1


Therefore it needs this fan
https://www.growityourself.co.uk/details/101/systemair-rvk-200-e2-a1-8-extractor-fan

Does that seem correct?

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Offlineleschampignons
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26092739 - 07/06/19 07:40 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Been awhile since I matched a blower to a filter but it looks like it would work to me. Only thing I noticed is that the 602.802 m3/hr is listed as the (max?) capacity of the filter, rather than its normal operating airflow rate. so that blower would push the filter to its full capacity. You could always dial back the blower though using a potentiometer or by blocking off part of the intake vent. as you prob have heard already it's better to have a blower that is too powerful for the filter than vice versa.


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Edited by leschampignons (07/06/19 07:41 AM)

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Laminar build [Re: leschampignons]
    #26092755 - 07/06/19 08:11 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure if others still agree but I wouldn't skimp on a filter, even though I like to save where I can I just ordered one through FP for an extra hundred bucks or so. I know its well made and sufficient for mycology and I'll have it for a long time. If you go that route the Dayton 1TDU2 fan is a good match, FP sells it as a match for their 24 x 24 filter but you can order it through electric motor warehouse for about 100 bucks cheaper https://electricmotorwarehouse.com/dayton-model-1tdu2-blower-1202-cfm-1390-rpm-115-230v-60-50hz-4c831/


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26092777 - 07/06/19 08:28 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sherlock Shrooms said:
I'm not sure if others still agree but I wouldn't skimp on a filter, even though I like to save where I can I just ordered one through FP for an extra hundred bucks or so. I know its well made and sufficient for mycology and I'll have it for a long time. If you go that route the Dayton 1TDU2 fan is a good match, FP sells it as a match for their 24 x 24 filter but you can order it through electric motor warehouse for about 100 bucks cheaper https://electricmotorwarehouse.com/dayton-model-1tdu2-blower-1202-cfm-1390-rpm-115-230v-60-50hz-4c831/




Yeah Im Uk based so shipping is $100

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: leschampignons]
    #26092825 - 07/06/19 09:10 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leschampignons said:
Been awhile since I matched a blower to a filter but it looks like it would work to me. Only thing I noticed is that the 602.802 m3/hr is listed as the (max?) capacity of the filter, rather than its normal operating airflow rate. so that blower would push the filter to its full capacity. You could always dial back the blower though using a potentiometer or by blocking off part of the intake vent. as you prob have heard already it's better to have a blower that is too powerful for the filter than vice versa.




Ah Ha, a pre filter would cut the power down,  Great thinking.

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OfflineUnknown error
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26094082 - 07/07/19 01:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I’m not too sure if that filter would create enough back pressure for laminar flow, it’s the pressure on the back of the filter that creates an even flow. 100pa is on the low side. I looked at a lot of builds when I made mine and  200 - 300pa was pretty much standard, or 0.8 - 1.2 in.w.g.
Mine had an initial pressure drop of 280 pa.
I’m not saying it definitely won’t work but it might be a bit iffy.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Unknown error]
    #26094280 - 07/07/19 07:25 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

They make filters with low resistance for laminar flow these days. Some of the newer FFUs using the dimple pleated hepas have initial resistances of 0.4"

Just as the filter manufacturer if your filter is made for laminar flow or not.

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26094299 - 07/07/19 07:42 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
They make filters with low resistance for laminar flow these days. Some of the newer FFUs using the dimple pleated hepas have initial resistances of 0.4"

Just as the filter manufacturer if your filter is made for laminar flow or not.




Good point.  I will post their response

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26095612 - 07/08/19 04:26 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Yes this filter is fine.  The pleats were larger with the old filters with the aluminium strips and the technology is much more on it now.  Good call Bod!

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26095613 - 07/08/19 04:26 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

What pre filter do people use?

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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26095644 - 07/08/19 05:18 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Furnace filters

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Offlineleschampignons
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Re: Laminar build [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26098470 - 07/09/19 03:34 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Furnace filters




:whathesaid:
I got the highest grade one of the furnace filters I saw at my local big box store


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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Laminar build [Re: leschampignons]
    #26098478 - 07/09/19 03:40 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I tried building a box to go over my blower that was the size of a furnace filter... It backed up my build by almost two weeks. After a bit of hunting I highly recommend buying some kind of cut to fit air filter. Here's an example.

After cutting it to size I just taped it over the blower intake, and covered all the other blower holes up with tape, and voila! Perfect with almost exact Laminar Flow, and no crazy box I'd have to seal up.




Go with the cut to fit, seriously, it'll save you a lot of heart-ache. Here's what I was trying to do first:



Don't do that. It was no fun.

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Re: Laminar build [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26098495 - 07/09/19 03:48 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

The blower box also has to be big enough the blower wont overheat. Don't ask how i know maybe my first box over the blower was made to fit with like one inch clearance maybe on all sides

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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Laminar build [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26098503 - 07/09/19 03:50 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Well how do you know :lol:jk


I just put my pre filters in front of the blower. They suck right up to it.


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Laminar build [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26099332 - 07/09/19 10:25 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ShaperDreaming said:
I tried building a box to go over my blower that was the size of a furnace filter... It backed up my build by almost two weeks. After a bit of hunting I highly recommend buying some kind of cut to fit air filter. Here's an example.

After cutting it to size I just taped it over the blower intake, and covered all the other blower holes up with tape, and voila! Perfect with almost exact Laminar Flow, and no crazy box I'd have to seal up.




Go with the cut to fit, seriously, it'll save you a lot of heart-ache. Here's what I was trying to do first:



Don't do that. It was no fun.




My 2nd hobby is woodwork and joinery so building a box to fit a fan will be easy.

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Offlinesyroth
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26100300 - 07/10/19 01:22 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I wanna add my vote for putting a potentiometer on every build.

I also agree with all other advice given here. But can say that a potentiometer as well as putting plugs on teh wiring to and from said potentiometer, have saved me A-LOT of time and effort over the years.

I spent like 80$ US on a potentiometer, the thing is near bullet proof. I will likely have to leave it in my will.

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OfflineShaperDreaming
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Re: Laminar build [Re: syroth]
    #26100321 - 07/10/19 01:36 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

syroth said:
I wanna add my vote for putting a potentiometer on every build.




I wanted to put on a speed controller (which is what you're talking about I believe), however many blowers are not recommended to be used with them based on the research I did. Some people seem to have success with them anyways, but I've also seen them resulting in burned out motors too.

If you put one on, I highly recommend ensuring that the blower you're using is rated to take one.

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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Laminar build [Re: Edmunter]
    #26100353 - 07/10/19 01:53 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

If I read it right the  filter 610x610x78..
That's 24x24x3 inches.. I would think you would want a 6 inch deep filter..
3 inch has twice the resistance as 6 inches deep.

I would double check.. Just my 2 cents..
Check how deep the filters are at Fungi Perfecti..

https://fungi.com/collections/laboratory-equipment/products/24-x-24-x-5-8-micron-filter


--------------------
     

Edited by micelio (07/10/19 06:23 PM)

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Offlinesyroth
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Re: Laminar build [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26100413 - 07/10/19 02:20 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I'm quite caffeinated and going to type fast. I in no way mean any disrespect, but only to clarify how electrical circuits function as I've worked professional as an electrician (not a master) and as an electrical engineer (college degree). Your advice is correct in that we must be sure to match the pair, but the problem isnt going to be whether the blower can handle variable voltage or not.. they pretty much ALL can do this without issue, its just the nature of electric motors.

    Few blowers cannot handle a speed controller aka potentiometer. The real factor is whether your potentiometer able to SAFELY reduce the voltage supplied through it, to the blower. Although, its worth noting that CHEAP BLOWERS ARE CHEAP. I really recommend getting a industrial or commercial grade blower if you're making your own box. The ones advertised for flow hoods are barebones super minimal low duty cycle pieces of garbage. I've often found far high quality blowers for cheaper... you just gotta look for HVAC purposes and not look up laminar flow blowers or however they may be marketed towards folks in our hobby.

    Energy cannot be created or destroyed it can only be transferred. All "resistance" transfers electrical energy into heat energy. Potentiometers aka speed controllers are resistance based. They reduce the voltage they allow to pass through them by increasing resistance, which increases heat build up inside the speed controller itself.

    In other words, if you buy the right potentiometer for your blower then you'll be fine. Check with HVAC / industrial parts supply shops in your local area, or ask any HVAC buddies you may have.

    TL;DR - Buy a HIGH quality potentiometer and you have nothing to worry about. I wired mine to the middle step of a 3 step blower taken off of a commercial roof unit. On this middle step, I reduce about 30 ish percent of power to achieve a perfect CFM rate as measured by my buddies CFM meter (HVAC guy). FWIW you can even ask parts suppliers for a compatibility lookup. I'll also gladly help you select the proper one. IIRC I figured out one on my own but it wasnt in stock so I had a Grainger rep help me find a suitable alternative. Every few years I will service the blower by hosing it down with special cleaner, and greasing the axel. As long as I keep this up the unit should perform for many many years, maybe into decades.

    Another reason a potentiometer is fucking awesome for your flow hood? Lets you be wrong on the math... or in other words not have to PERFECTLY match blower to filter. By dynamically adjusting the voltage I was able to MAKE a blower work for me that, purely by using the built in step-speeds, would not have worked for my particular filter. Give me a big enough potentiometer, and I can take a blower thats double what we need, and tone it down to exactly what we need.

   

    Pic included. Note how the backing is quite small, and the front plate, if you look carefully is alllll entirely heat sink. Even the black section of the front panel is hollow finned heat sink.


    Final thought - I got my filter from fungi perfecti. Super happy with it, will buy from them again... though I expect many more years of use from this baby!


***EDIT: Down thread discussion has made me realize I used potentiometer here rather loosely, instead of Potentiometer please read speed controller. If you're concerned on technical accuracy!

Edited by syroth (07/10/19 04:51 PM)

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