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 tomcards
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 First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate.  1
#26091483 - 07/05/19 12:13 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi guys,
I’ve successfully used PF tech in the past and I’m about to begin my first grow using spawn bags and bulk substrate in an 18 x 12 x 12, clear monotub. The monotub has two one inch holes on both long sides, near its top. I plan to cover them with micropore tape.
I’ve read conflicting reports about the temperature and lighting conditions needed for successful spawn bag colonization. I have a few questions.
After inoculation, do the bags have to be in the dark? I was considering putting them in a closed closet, but they wouldn’t get much air flow. If they don’t require darkness, can I simply put them on the floor and ensure that they don’t get direct sunlight?
After the bags are colonized and I mix them with the substrate in the monotub, does the monotub need to be in the dark? Or can I leave it on the floor, away from direct sunlight? I considered painting the monotub (except the lid) black to keep out light. Should I bother?
What is the ideal temperature range for spawn bag colonization? The temperature in our apartment ranges from about 63 F at night and about 70 F during the day. I know that colonizing spawn generates its own heat. So, is my temperature range okay, or should I use a heating pad underneath the bags?
What is the ideal temperature range for monotub colonization?
What is the ideal temperature range for monotub fruiting?
Is ambient light sufficient for fruiting, or should I provide additional overhead lighting?
Thanks for your assistance.
Tom
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards] 1
#26091506 - 07/05/19 12:25 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is the current tek list stickied at the top of the forum. There's lots of old outdated ideas floating around.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
To start, you're success rate is going to go down inoculating grains directly with spores from what you saw with brf cakes. It's highly recommended to clean a culture on agar to inoculate grains with.
Darkness for colonizing is old school. Light is beneficial at all stages of development.
again light good.
Don't use a heat mat. They tend to cook substrates. Room temp 70-76, is considered ideal, but you have plenty of range beyond that. 60's will grow, just a tad slower.
Already answer temp qquestion.
Ambient sunlight is fine or 6500k cfl's work fine. Depends on where you're trying to grow. A dark closet would use a light bulb, a room with a window should have plenty of light itself.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26091570 - 07/05/19 12:57 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks LtLurker!
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26109586 - 07/15/19 12:23 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Guys,
On 7/8, I inoculated each of two 3-pound rye spawn bags with 5cc of Golden Teacher. Because the ambient temperature had been less than 70 degrees, I elevated the bags 1.5” above a heating pad covered with a folded hand towel to dampen the heat. During the day, I crack open a window to the right of the bags for fresh air.
I taped a thermometer near the bottom of one bag. I know that this won’t indicate the interior temperature of the bag, but it does reveal the temperature of the bag vs. the ambient temperature.
I don’t always use the heating pad. It’s gotten warmer recently. During the day, I try to keep the bag temperature about 73 degrees. If the ambient temperature is considerably lower, I turn the heating pad on to Low to bring the bag up to around 73. I never use the heating pad at night. Overnight, the temperature of the bag dips down to about 66.
One week has passed and I see no signs of mycelium. Is this normal? When should I see evidence of colonization?
Can I assume that the interior temperature of the bag is 5-10 degrees warmer than the outside of the bag?
Should I increase the heat or leave everything alone and be patient?
Thanks,
Tom
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26109593 - 07/15/19 12:26 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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leave temps as they are. your well within range.
give them up to another 2 weeks to germinate. Spores straight on grain can be a little slower than cakes. If you injected those spores towards the center and not against the sides, keep in mind it will take extra time for the myc growth to make it to an edge you can see.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26109794 - 07/15/19 02:46 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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LtLurker,
That's very reassuring news. Now my biggest struggle will be to remain patient.
Thanks,
Tom
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26117461 - 07/19/19 07:35 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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On 7/18, a small patch of mycelium appeared in bag #1. No growth is visible yet in bag #2, but hopefully colonization is occurring internally. I'm encouraged.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26117972 - 07/19/19 01:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I had a bag that was in a closet at 77 degrees with very little draft, which I saw chunks of colonization after 8 days. I have another bag going right now, that was in the same closet and I did not see anything for 12 days. Both bags are the same batch of grains, same spores, same everything. The difference is in the conditions of the closet. For the second bag, I had the AC vent open in order to keep it cool and provide FAE for the tub which the first bag was spawned to. It was around 74 degrees in there. The lower temperature and constant moving cool air kept it from colonizing as quickly. I now have it in a cabinet by itself with no breeze or AC vent. It is probably 77 to 78 degrees in there. I have not looked at it in three days, but I bet anything it is taking off. Before I put it in there, I broke it up and found a good chunk just under the surface that was colonized. It is not recommended to break it up before at least 20% finished, so I am not suggesting that.
Depending on how you inoculated the bag will make a big difference. If your needle was even a quarter inch into the grain then it will colonize from the inside out and take much longer to see it. If you colonized between the bag and outer surface of grains you will see it much quicker.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26119719 - 07/20/19 11:28 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I bought commercially available spawn bags. The instructions stated to inject the spores into the grain at different locations, which I dutifully did, being a nubie.
I have since learned that injecting the spores between the bag and the grain is better because it allows you to see colonization quicker. But that wasn't possible with these (any other) commercial bags because the injection port is BELOW the grain on the bag. Why do they do that?
Clearly, the injection port needs to be ABOVE the level of the grain so that you can inject the spores between the bag and the grain. In the future, I won't buy bags with injection ports. I'll use the tape method to create a port above the grain.
I'll eventually get around to buying a pressure cooker and making my own spawn bags. But first things first.
As of today, no evidence of colonization in bag #2.
Thanks for your input.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26119929 - 07/20/19 01:46 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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You can still inject between bag and grain. The grain is just loose in the bag. Once you stick the needle in, just angle it and lift the bag off the grains a tad and quirt. All the grain bags are the same. I thought the same thing you did at first. I actually used 5cc in my first three pound bag. It was a little too much. It actually ran to the back of the bag and that is where I saw the colonization at first, 8 days later. If it would not have ran all the way to the back, it would have colonized the middle and I would not have seen it for a while.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/09/19 06:13 PM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26120012 - 07/20/19 02:43 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Spiritualscience,
Thanks for that injection information! It makes sense. You've accelerated my learning curve.
This morning (5:30 am), the outer bag temperature was 70. Based upon your earlier response regarding temperature and air flow, I turned on the heating pad (low) and didn't open the window as I've done in the past. I've kept the temperature at around 77.
I checked bag #2 about twenty minutes ago and happily discovered a one inch patch of mycelium on the side of bag #2. Hooray! It's on the side facing bag #1, indicating that it's benefitting from the warmth of bag #1.
It seems that the slow colonization has been due to lower than optimal temperatures and counterproductive airflow. Given LtLurker's advice, I didn't want to cook the grain or burn up the spores, so I've employed the heating pad sparingly, keeping the temperature around 74.
The increased temperature seems to be paying off. I plan to keep the temperature around 77.
Thanks to both of you for schooling this old hippy.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26127096 - 08/08/19 03:06 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Guys,
Whew! I’m relieved that the forum is up and running.
It’s been 30 days since I inoculated the rye bags. I turn the heating pad on and off during the day to keep the bag temperature at 77-79 degrees. I leave the heating pad on Low overnight. The bag temperature in the morning has been 74-75 degrees. The increased heat has dramatically increased colonization. I’ve attached photos of their progress.
I’ve read differing opinions about breaking up the mycelium to more evenly distribute it in the bag to speed up colonization. Many people report that the bag should be broken up or shaken when it is 20%-30% colonized, but never after it is colonized 50% or more. My bags appear to be about 20% colonized on the outside, but who knows the degree to which they’re colonized on the inside. They may be more than 50% colonized.
Does a bag need to be broken up or shaken? Are there any negative consequences to NOT breaking up a bag? Time is not an issue. I’m in no hurry.
Because I don’t know the degree to which the bags are colonized, I fear that breaking them up might irreparably damage the mycelial network. I really don’t want to do it. Can I just leave them alone until they appear to be 100% colonized? Please advise.
Thanks,
Tom
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 Tormato   
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26127293 - 08/08/19 04:53 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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If time is not an issue than why use the heating pad? For real 63-70F is perfectly fine temps and less likely to encourage bacteria to grow. Like mentioned before....ditch the heating pad.
I would highly recommend breaking these up and giving them a good shake and observe recovery. Not going to hurt the mycelium.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26127332 - 08/08/19 05:13 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, those look excellent. They are more than ready to be "shaken."
No, you don't have to shake. It just majorly speeds up and evens out the process of colonization. If you were to break those up and mix well, within three or four days the whole bag would be white and colonizing evenly. You would be amazed at how well it works. If you don't shake it may take a long time to get them colonized.
You don't have to worry about percentage rules. That is all pretty much either nonsense or preference. If a bag fails to recover from a simple shake, something is wrong with the spawn and it would not work good in a grow anyway. Some used to recommend shaking at 20% and again after 70%. Others recommend one or the other. Most recommend shaking now at around 20% and then letting it finish on its own. The only reason they say to wait until approximately 20% is because the bag would definitely have enough mycelium to spread around the entire bag by that point. If you shake too early, you may get some spots that myc did not get into and you would have to do it again if you want speed and uniformity. I guarantee the fear of doing it after 50% is completely bogus. MANY will shake after 90% just to test their spawns recovery time, especially if it appears bacterial. I shook my last bag at 90 plus percent because some thought it looked bacterial. It recovered fully in about four days and was done in a couple more.
I have a bag sitting at about 20% that has taken a month to get there. I have not shaken it, because I don't want it ready before I am done milking my current grow. I think I am on my last flush (#4), so I am about to shake it.
To "shake" a bag simply means to break up and mix the colonized portions up with the un-colonized portions. If you decide to do it, you just massage the myc with your hands until it is all broke up. Then you shake the bag a few times to make sure it is thoroughly mixed. Try not to touch the filter patch and take the chance on contaminating it. Also, when you break up a bag the mycelium seems to disappear and the grain looks naked again. Don't worry it is still there. You will want to get it back in the same shape it was before shaking. Holding it up about six inches and dropping it on a hard counter-top seems to get it all back in form. Just make sure your air channel is still open between the grains and the filter patch. As it really gets going, it needs more GE. It may get a little wet and "bacterial" looking. Meaning it may look a little milky and damp. If you look up colonized bag pics, you will see how common it is.
My concern with not shaking at all would be giving more time for contamination to take place. In my inexperienced opinion, it is not good to have sections of un-colonized grains sitting for too long. It just gives more time for something to go wrong. The sooner you can get sterilized grains fully colonized, the better.
I agree with Tormato. If it was me, I would shake it, and I would be very leery of the heating pad. But it sounds like your heating pad has some really low temperature settings and it has not caused problems so far, so you may be fine with it. It just sounds sketchy to be creating hot spots in the bag. I would definitely not put the bag directly on the pad, especially if I had two bags that looked as perfectly as those do.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/08/19 07:20 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26127358 - 08/08/19 05:22 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I just saw that you have the bags on a rack above the heating pads, so all you are doing is heating the air a little around them. As long as the bottom of your bags are not getting too much of the heat and it is fairly even, I don't think that will cause problems.
Keep in mind that the ideal temperature to colonize is talking about the temperature of the grains themselves, not necessarily the room temperature. The grains heat up when colonizing. From what I have read, the bags get about five degrees warmer under the surface layer. That would be 82 degrees. You really don't want to take a chance of pushing it past 84 from what I have read. I like to keep my room between 75 and 77 and it has worked fine. I would definitely not want to go over 77.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/08/19 05:32 PM)
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Tormato
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26127369 - 08/08/19 05:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ideal ambient temps are 68-72F. You start getting off into the 80's inside the jar or ambient and your asking for bacteria to grow faster.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Tormato]
#26127417 - 08/08/19 05:50 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I see what you are saying. RR said, "What I have repeatedly found regardless of strain is that cubensis colonization remains rather flat from about 75F through 81F. Beginning at 83F, the rate of growth falls off sharply. By 86F, growth has slowed down nearly 50% what it was between 75f and 81F. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84."
He was running controlled tests on petri dishes, so we have to take into consideration the extra heat that happens in a bag or jar when colonization really gets going. I had a bag in a room that was getting under 74 with constant cold air coming out of the AC vent and hitting the bag and it sat there seemingly doing nothing for almost two weeks. I stuck it in a cabinet that was around 76 to 77 and I saw growth in a few days. At least that is the way it appeared. I am sure if I left it alone it would have eventually been fine in the colder room. I bet it would be fine anywhere from 69 to 78 in the room, but I am with you. I would not want to take a chance of it getting too warm and creating an ideal environment for bacteria to thrive.
My last bag finished in a closet that was 76 to 77 degrees. It did look a little bacterial and had a lot of condensation but I am on my fourth flush with no problem. Personally I want my bags in a room that is 75 to 77 degrees to start with, when there is no heat being generated inside the bag yet.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/08/19 05:54 PM)
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Tormato
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26127450 - 08/08/19 06:00 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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How old is that info? Sounds a bit dated like back when we were still making incubators for grains jars. 
I keep make incubation temps right around 70F and have even had temps drop as low as 63F and never noticed a significant difference in growth.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Tormato]
#26127507 - 08/08/19 06:29 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tormato said:
How old is that info? Sounds a bit dated like back when we were still making incubators for grains jars.
I keep make incubation temps right around 70F and have even had temps drop as low as 63F and never noticed a significant difference in growth.
His temperature experiments were controlled on petri dishes. That kind of info cannot get outdated. I understand where you are coming from though. A lot of old info is outdated, because it did not come from controlled experiments that could be repeated. It came from opinions and just the way things were done back then. I don't think anyone uses 80 plus degree incubators anymore.
I guess if we do the math,and trust in RR's controlled experiments, then ideally we want our grains colonizing at 75 to 81 degrees for steady and quick growth, 81 to 83 for the fastest growth, and never over 83 degrees where growth slows down and conditions are much better for bacteria to thrive.
So, if we accommodate for an extra five degrees in the bag, we want the room to be 70 to 78. Sounds like we are both there.
I keep my house at 68 in the winter though, and I won't do anything to make my bags warmer. I just have to be a little more patient. I am in Florida and getting my bags to 70 degrees in the summer would take a refrigerator, lol.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Tormato]
#26127515 - 08/08/19 06:38 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is a wealth of information. It will never be outdated, unless mycelium evolves and changes its material characteristics.
Quotes from Road Runner’s temperature experiments:
“Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. I've been saying that for years. My Petri dish studies a few years ago showed that cubensis reaches peak linear growth between 75F and 80F, then is flat until 83F, where it starts to slow down. Mycelium at 86F is growing at about 2/3 the speed of mycelium at 80F. In addition, the higher temps tend to stimulate thermophilic molds and bacteria. When I did it there were ten Petri dishes colonizing at each temperature, in separate containers. I went through well over 200 Petri dishes of mycelium for no other reason than to determine the temperature that stimulates fastest growth.”
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Tormato]
#26127524 - 08/08/19 06:45 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not trying to argue with you though. I love your posts man. I sat staring at your picture of the baby being thrown in space the other day. That is a trip for sure.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26128645 - 08/09/19 01:55 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Guys,
Based upon your advice, today I gently massaged the mycelium and broke up the clumps. I shook the bags to evenly distribute the mycelium and then I dropped them from 6" several times to compact the rye. I gently reformed the mass and ensured that there is air flow to the filters.
Despite intellectually knowing that the procedure was safe and beneficial, it was an emotionally traumatizing experience! PSSD? Post Shaking Stress Disorder? I needed a couple of bong rips to calm my fearful frenzy.
I await signs of renewed life.
Thanks again,
Tom
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26128883 - 08/09/19 06:10 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have been there and felt that, lolol. I guarantee you that you will be well pleased in a few days with what you see, unless you do something really, really stupid. I know it looks like you have destroyed it, but you did not. In four days you will see the entire bag growing mycelium in every crack and crevice.
Just stay by the bong and forget about it for a couple days, lol.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26132753 - 08/12/19 06:47 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey Tom,
How is it looking? I shook mine the same day you did. It will be three full days at about midnight. I am starting to see small pieces of myc everywhere. I hope yours is coming along.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26135390 - 08/14/19 11:32 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi Spiritual,
It’s been 5 days since I shook the bags. Due to being nearly paralyzed with fear, I was overly gentle with bag #1 and probably didn’t mix it as well as I should have. Sides: 75% colonization. Bottom: 50% colonization. Top: 50% colonization, with some obvious clumps.
I mixed bag #2 more thoroughly. Sides: 90% colonization. Bottom: 50% colonization. Top: 75% colonization.
The bags are definitely generating their own heat.
I’ve attached a photo.
Despite my fear, shaking is definitely the best approach. I’m delighted and relieved with the results. Thanks for the advice and reassurance.
It’s been warmer lately and I no longer use the heating pad. I’ve dispensed with the thermometer taped to the outside of the bag. I’m watching the ambient temperature and assuming that the inside temperature of the bags is up to 5 degrees warmer.
I discovered that by closing the heater vent, the window and the door to the bag room and just letting the sun shine in, I can create a green house. During the day, the room temperature is 75-76. If the room begins to get hotter, I simply open the door. Overnight, the room temperature 71-72.
After the bags appear to be 100% colonized on the outside, how many additional days should I give them to allow the insides to completely colonize? How will I know when the insides are colonized? Is it possible to give them too much time, resulting in negative consequences?
I’m grateful for your and everyone’s invaluable assistance. Keep me posted on your progress.
Thanks!
Tom
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26135729 - 08/14/19 02:28 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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With bags of grain, you want to spawn to bulk as soon as they are complete. They are not like jars of brown rice flower, where it is recommended to let it consolidate for at least a week after it appears fully colonized. I have read that you can wait up to several months with fully colonized grains, but you would want to keep them in a cool temperature of around 55 to 65 degrees to hold off premature pinning and to keep bacteria and contams at bay. I am not sure how good that advice is, and I have never tried it. I have just read it in multiple places.
As soon as the entire bag is white, it is finished inside and out. If you take some photos a few times a day, you will be able to tell when it stops making "progress." At that point, it should be safe from contams, but I like to spawn to bulk in a still air, clean environment. It is probably unnecessary but it makes me feel better, lol. I simply turn off the AC for about 20 minutes and thoroughly clean the area I will do the work in with bleach, Lysol, Ozium, etc. Just make sure you wait around ten minutes after spraying anything in the air, for it to settle. You don't want lysol or Ozium in your grow tub. I also run my air purifier in the room. I use a walk in closet so I can close it off and the air purifier can clean the air pretty quickly. All this is overkill mind you. I also wear gloves and clean the gloves thoroughly before mixing my spawn with my bulk substrate. Definitely thoroughly clean your tub out first, with some mild bleach water or alcohol and then dry it or let it dry.
If you are growing cubes, you do not need a casing layer. All you need to do is mix the spawn up with your substrate as evenly as possible and then level it off with your hands. Don't tightly compact it. You can pat it lightly, while leveling it off, and that should not compact it too much. Some like to sprinkle a thin layer of substrate on top once they are done mixing, just to "protect" any exposed grains during colonization. The thinner the layer, the faster the time to full colonization of the tub. Many no longer do that. They just mix evenly, put the lid on, and leave it alone for a week or so. If you allow some FAE it will fully colonize faster (avg. 5-8 days). If you go with the old school method of only allowing GE, it will take a little longer (avg. 10-14 days). The GE method will preserve more moisture for later flushes and possibly make your shrooms a tad more potent, but I have not noticed a difference. Either way is fine, but definitely don't wrap it up in a garbage bag and cut off all air. You will suffocate them and be more prone to contams.
I spawn to bulk in what I call semi-fruiting conditions. That simply means that I don't tape up all my holes and neither do I put my poly or micro-tape as loose as I do after pins. I will stuff the bottom holes extremely tight, and I mean extremely. Then I will stuff the top holes about medium tight. Once I have a bunch of pins, I will loosen the bottom to medium and the top to loose and start monitoring my humidity and FEA to get a balance. I'm learning to get it pretty good most of the time. Once you learn your environment, you can pretty much set up your monotub and do very little.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/14/19 02:52 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26135744 - 08/14/19 02:37 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here are a few fat ones off of a fourth flush. It has a bunch more catching up as we speak. I just picked these an hour ago. This is what you have to look forward to. This is also the perfect time to harvest them. The caps will start lightening up and the veil will begin to stretch. 
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (08/14/19 05:55 PM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26136892 - 08/15/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey Spiritual,
Congratulations on your fetching fourth flush fruit!
Thanks for the tip about placing a fully colonized bag in a cool place to prevent pinning, while the other bag catches up. I may have to do that since bag #1 is still lagging behind.
My clear monotub is 15” x 12” x 12”. I spray painted the bottom and the lower 3” of the sides black to discourage bottom and side pinning. There are two 1” holes on both sides of the tub. They are 7” above the bottom of the tub and 4 inches above the blacked-out section. A thermometer will be stuck to the inside wall of the tub.
Since my tub doesn’t have bottom holes, my plan is to tightly place micropore tape over the holes during colonization to maintain humidity and allow GE.
After the substrate is fully colonized, I will loosen the tape to allow FAE and turn on a light about 2’ above the tub to encourage vertical pinning and fruiting.
Considering the design of my tub, does that sound like a reasonable plan?
During colonization, what temperature should I attempt to maintain inside the tub?
During pinning and fruiting, what temperature should I attempt to maintain inside the tub?
Thanks,
Tom
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26137448 - 08/15/19 05:10 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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No one concerns themselves with temperature inside the tub. Room temp is all that matters. The tubs like about the same room temps as the bags.
Your tub sounds unique in that it is not a traditional monotub with holes close to the surface and holes higher up. You almost have an "unmodified" tub-like scenario, which means you are most likely going to have to mist and fan at least a few times a day to maintain it. You will definitely need the poly extremely loose in the top holes or have one thin layer of micropore tape and then no tape a few days after pins begin to grow. You will most likely need to slightly crack the lid as well. I would not have a tub like that without checking it quite often and most likely giving it a quick fanning five or six times a day.
I would look up "unmodified monotub" and read how they maintain them. I am thinking of trying one soon myself, just for the heck of it.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26138073 - 08/16/19 07:36 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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That sounds like way too much work. I'll just buy a 1" hole-cutter drill bit and drill two more holes on each side.
I'll drill the holes right above the blacked-out section of my tub, positioning them near the surface of the substrate. There will be about a 3" space between the top and bottom holes.
During colonization, I'll tightly tape the bottom holes and tape the top holes with medium tightness.
After pinning, medium tightness tape on the bottom holes and loose tape on the top holes.
Does this sound like an effective plan? Will it eliminate the need for misting and fanning?
Much thanks,
Tom
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26138324 - 08/16/19 11:48 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I drilled two sets of 1" holes beneath the upper holes, positioning them just above the eventual surface of the substrate. There is a 2.6" separation between the top and bottom holes.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26138674 - 08/16/19 03:58 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey Tom,
That sounds much better 
That SHOULD require much less maintenance once you get your tub "dialed in."
Let me explain:
Many people think that someone else's tek will or should work for them, but they fail to take into account the variances in environment. For example, a person who lives in a place with a relative humidity level of 20% will have much different results, with the same set up, than a person who lives in an environment with 60% humidity. A person whose house is 65 degrees will have much different results, with the same set up, than someone whose house is 80 degrees. Each person will have to figure out how their grows will respond to their environments. Of course, every time you change your materials (tub, amount of holes, substrate materials, etc.) you will have to adjust.
There is a popular tek here at shroomery on "dialing in your monotub." The guy keeps his bottom holes packed extremely tightly with poly throughout the grow. I have seen several others say that does not work for them. On my tubs, it does not work for me until I get to the third flush and am low on moisture inside the sub. My tubs are smaller than his and so are my holes. My environment may be different as well. My RH (relative humidity) hovers around 50 to 55, in my house. When the temps drop outside and my AC does not need to run, then the humidity rises in the house, and can get to 60 or a little higher. It effects how tightly I need to pack the holes. When my RH is high, I can pack them more loosely and the humidity level stays up in the tub. When my RH is lower, or I have fans in the room, or the AC is constantly running all day and air is hitting the tub, I have to pack them a little tighter to maintain a high RH. What you want is as much fresh air as possible while maintaining high humidity.
Also, each flush is different. No matter how long I dunk a substrate, it will simply not hold water like it does during the first flush. The more the mycelium grows in the substrate, the less room their is for it to hold water. Even after you dunk, the water will not last through later flushes. You will still need to mist a few times a day at least in later flushes. A properly dialed in monotub may not need any misting until after the first flush, because there is usually enough water in the substrate to produce constant evaporation during fruiting, without drying out. *Without evaporation going on you will get no shrooms.*
Environmental factors to consider with each set up:
1.) Relative Humidity
2.) Temperature
3.) Amount of air movement in grow space.
4.) Lighting
The reason I am sharing this information is so that you will understand that it may not just be set and forget in the beginning. You will most likely have to make some adjustments.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26139991 - 08/17/19 01:26 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks so much for your ongoing tutelage and support. I trust and I am implementing your advice. But I’ve got to stop addressing you as Spiritual. The experience of addressing you as “Spiritual”, rubs coarse sandpaper against my psyche on a number of levels.
You have kindly and generously facilitated an educational/supportive relationship with me. In any productive relationship, regardless of its duration or depth, some degree of intimacy is required. So please, oh please, tell me your first name. Hell, a plausible, fake name will suffice.
Living in San Francisco, the RH in my greenhouse/office, with the window and door closed and the curtain open, is 52-55%. I maintain an ambient temperature of about 76 degrees during the day. Overnight, the temperature hovers around 70 degrees.
I’ll read the “dialing in your monotub” thread. I’m familiar with Pastywhite’s (sp?) set and forget techniques.
I am completely perplexed by your comment, “dunk a substrate.” That sounds like PF tek talk. How can I possible dunk the 16 pound slab of colonized substrate that my tub will hopefully produce? Please explain.
Continued thanks,
Tom
Edited by tomcards (08/21/19 09:29 AM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26140119 - 08/17/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol, you can call me whatever you want. JD will work
As for dunking a bulk substrate. Let me explain. First of all, the only people who don't dunk are those that have many tubs going at the same time and they only do two flushes. Small growers like myself, who want more than two flushes have to re-hydrate the sub to accomplish it. I am on my fifth flush right now on a tub. I did some research with the fourth last night and it was stout. Some say that after the second flush the rest are weak. That has not been my experience at all.
To start with, your substrate should have enough water in it to make it through one or two flushes, depending on your field capacity. I'm sure you know what field capacity is. It means how much water your chosen substrate material has in it when you initially mix it with your spawn. You should be able to grab a handful and squeeze it hard and get drops of water coming out and running down your fingers. You can find videos that show how it should be.
Dunking a bulk sub is fairly easy. I do mine in a bath tub, or my large laundry sink. You can do it outside with a garden hose as well. You can read about dunking monotubs on this site and elsewhere and find some good info. Here is what works for me.
1.) take tape off the bottom holes
2.) Spray the top of sub with sink sprayer, or garden hose sprayer, or strong shower stream. (This cleans it up, exposing some sub and hyphal knots underneath the top layer. It would probably work without doing this, but I always do it, going on the advice of many experienced growers. It must do something, because I get almost as much fruits on my third flush as I get on my first.)
3.) Once you get it cleaned up, then you fill it up with cold water from the tap until it is running out of the holes. (You want to keep the water fairly clean so many will run the water for a while and then leave the water barely streaming into the tub for the entire dunk. By doing so they are constantly adding fresh water to the tub and it keeps slowly overflowing through the open holes.)
4.) Weigh your sub down to hold it under the water. (A floating sub will not properly re-hydrate. It needs to be submerged. You just need to find something similar in size and shape to set on top of the sub and weigh it down to hold it under the water. I use another tub that is the same size. You can put something in it to make it heavy enough to hold the sub down. You can just put water in the other tub as well and that works.)
5.) Keep sub under water for several hours. (There is a wide array of opinions on how long to dunk a sub. Some say don't do it more than two hours. Some say to do it for 24 hours, lol. I've tried between one to seven hours and it did about the same thing. I like to do a minimum of two hours. One trick is to push the sub to the bottom and put enough pressure on it to see bubbles come up. That enables the sub to suck in water better, but you want to be very careful if you do it because you can break your sub in pieces. I have broken a few and it did not hurt them. I just pushed the few pieces together and they grew into each other again, somewhat.)
6.) Dump water out of your monotub. (You can just tilt it and hold the sub with your hand to keep it from falling out. It the sub is fragile you can use a stiff piece of cardboard or something to hold it in while you dump the water out.)
7.) Put back into fruiting conditions. (I have to use tighter poly or more layers of micropore tape after the second flush. I also have to mist a few times a day. You will see fresh white growth all over the sub in a few days and usually it will start pinning again in about four days.)
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26140124 - 08/17/19 03:02 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Your environment is nearly identical to mine, besides your cooler night times. That will slow your growth a little but should make them a little more potent. That is a good thing
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26141035 - 08/18/19 08:03 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ah, JD sounds much better.
Wow! I was familiar with dunking PF cakes, but I'm ashamed to admit that I hadn't heard of dunking a substrate. Thanks for this important information.
So, you recommend dunking after the 2nd flush?
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26141831 - 08/18/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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It is hard to recommend a dunk on any certain flush, because I can't see your sub or feel the weight of your tub. As it looses moisture it shrinks and gets lighter. Some get to three flushes without dunking, but usually they are heavily misting or doing a little bottom watering (pouring water into the bottom for a little while and then dumping it out, or just pouring around a half of cup in and seeing if the sub soaks it up in a few hours). I have even injected water into the sub in the middle of a flush, in a grid pattern, every few inches, with a sterile left over spore syringe. It seemed to help quite a bit.
Also, how you start your tub will effect how quickly the water is used up. If you spawn to bulk in fruiting conditions (allowing some FAE), like most do, then the water will be used up a little quicker, but you will be less prone to get mold and your substrate will colonize quite a bit faster. That is how I do it.
Some dunk after their first flush with good results. I can usually make it through the second, but I mist quite a bit during the second and sometimes end up needing to bottom water or inject water.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26145753 - 08/21/19 06:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks again JD. It's seems that a bit of experimentation will be in order.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26164218 - 09/01/19 05:58 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Any updates Tom?
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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McLovin333
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26164302 - 09/01/19 07:03 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Searching the Unknown
  
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KindOne
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: McLovin333]
#26164319 - 09/01/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Keep posting your progress, Tom. Really enjoying this thread.
This doesn’t seem more complex than PF. Think you could have done this first?
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: KindOne]
#26166654 - 09/03/19 10:28 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi Guys,
It been 32 days since I shook the bags. Bag #1 is about 90% colonized, with only the top surface still colonizing. Bag #2 is about 85% colonized, with a sliver of one side and the top surface still colonizing.
The colonization seems to have slowed, despite maintaining an ambient temperature of around 71 degrees overnight and about 75-76 degrees during the day.
My primary concern now is what to do if bag #1 finishes colonizing and bag #2 isn’t finished. If bag #2 doesn’t finish with a few days of bag #1, I’m considering discarding the uncolonized portion of bag #2 and mixing it into the substrate with bag #1.
Does that sound like a safe approach?
KindOne,
This process is much more complex and takes a lot longer than PF tek. I’m glad I “learned the hyphal ropes” with PF tek first. I don’t recommend anyone diving into grain bag colonization without first having success with PF tek.
Tom
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26166727 - 09/03/19 11:16 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not sure what I would do. I would most likely let them both finish if they finished within a week or so of one another. If not then I may do what you are saying. Either way you should be fine.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26166747 - 09/03/19 11:30 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks again for the reassurance JD!
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26171610 - 09/05/19 11:04 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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My pleasure. I look forward to hearing the results, and I hope you have some very productive research.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26172995 - 09/06/19 05:24 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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How is your crop coming along, JD?
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26173370 - 09/06/19 10:03 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Man, I can't get my current tub to stop growing lol. I am on the seventh flush. I have a new bag ready to go, but I can only grow one tub at a time to keep it stealth.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26175415 - 09/08/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's great! Being unable to stop a tub from growing is a very good problem to have. Congratulations.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26176913 - 09/08/19 11:34 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, I guess if I am going to have a "problem" that is a good one to have. The seventh flush only has about ten fruits. They look healthy so I'll let them finish up this week and then bury the substrate somewhere in the woods.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26185575 - 09/13/19 09:16 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh shit! Even though bag #2 doesn't appear to be completely colonized, there is a shroom growing in the bottom of the bag! What should I do? Remove the shroom and immediately mix both spawn bags with the substrate in the tub? Please advise ASAP.
Thanks,
Tom
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26185576 - 09/13/19 09:17 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Double shit! There are shrooms growing in both bags!! Help!
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26186217 - 09/13/19 03:32 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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With fruit growing in both bags, I couldn't wait to give the grain more time to completely colonize because I feared more fruit would grow and then potentially die, leading to rotting and contamination. About 90% of the grain was colonized.
I dumped the spawn into a clean bowl and mixed it well in an effort to at least bring all of the uncolonized grain in contact with colonized grain. Kind of a late shake.
I removed the fruit and put them in my desiccant box.
I realize that uncolonized grain invites rotting and contamination, but I didn't know what else to do. Hopefully, my impulsive decision won't ruin the whole tub.
I cleaned my 32 quart tub with alcohol and let it dry. I mixed the spawn with the substrate and dumped it into the tub. I put about a half inch of substrate on top to serve as pseudo casing.
I misted the substrate and put on the lid.
I applied micropore tape to the holes per Pastywhyte's instructions. Two layers on the bottom holes and one layer on the top holes.
Now I wait for the substrate to colonize or possibly turn into a festering bog of mold and bacteria.
I'm twitching and itching with fear
Edited by tomcards (09/13/19 03:43 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26186637 - 09/13/19 06:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol, I'm sure you will be fine man. Normally you want to just discard any grains that do not appear colonized. Being that you put 1/2" substrate on top to mimic casing, I think you will be okay with the uncolonized grain in your mix. I don't put that thick of a top coat on because it slows the colonization process down quite a bit, but in your case that decision may save your ass with the uncolonized grain. I usually sprinkle a little sub over the mix just to cover the exposed seeds a little. I doubt it makes much of a difference, but it will take several more days to colonize with a thick layer of sub on top of the mix. I would give it a good 10 days to get close to complete with 1/2" on top. Being that you had fruits growing in your bag, it may colonize faster.
Your fine man. Getting fruits in jars or bags is no biggy. It shows healthy growth! You have seen pins before you ever spawned to bulk. Congrats!!!
Of course, it may show that you have a little bacteria in the grains, which would keep some from colonizing while the rest is already pining. A little bacteria is absolutely nothing to worry about though. Sounds like your doing a great job.
You make me want to experiment, but I have done too much lately and have to take at least 10 days or so to break my tolerance.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26187472 - 09/14/19 06:43 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
Thanks again for your reassurance.
This morning, the interior of the tub was coated with condensation, except for dry airways between the top and bottom holes. I'm pleased to see that it's getting good FAE. I see no need to mist it.
Hopefully 10 days from now will be a good day for both of us.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26190579 - 09/15/19 08:59 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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You should not need to mist at all until full colonization and most likely you won't need to until the end of your first flush or during your second. What you are after is tiny water droplets forming on the fresh mycelium. As long as the droplets are there, you are good to go. They may dry up a tad on your last few days of fruiting, but most of the time you have enough water in a monotub for your first flush without misting.
I think two things I learned were the most helpful. One is using sunlight at the right time to get a great pinset. After the tub is mostly colonized, after about 5 to 7 days, you can put the tub by a window for direct sunlight for about 15 minutes each day until you get a ton of pins. The intense light and warmth will increase your pinset. I read that from a very experienced mycologist who went by the name Roger Rabbit. He knew his stuff and is one of the only guys who actually tested his theories in scientific ways.
The second thing is giving it a lot of FAE on the final days of fruiting. After you have pins everywhere you want to start increasing your FAE. Around three days after pins you can really increase it for the last two days of growth. You can usually leave one or two of your top holes completely open the last two days of the first flush, or just put a piece of poly stretched out extremely thin and just barely sitting in the top holes. I only do that just in case a gnat or fly shows up, lol. Of course this could could change if you had low moisture content when you started or a ton of FAE already, but most guys really open them up the last few days of a first flush. In later flushes, I have never had enough moisture to leave holes open like that. I have to cover up some holes with duct tape just to keep humidity in the tub.
I finally quit my tub after 7 flushes. I buried it yesterday. I plan to mix up a new batch to bulk tonight. I think I only got about 120 or so wet grams off the last flush; it dried to only 10 grams. Better than nothing for sure.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 10:36 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26198467 - 09/19/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well I finally made a new tub on 9/18 at around 2am. Here is how it looks at 11pm on 9/19, about 45 hours later. I would normally put a small layer of sub on top, but my sub ended up being too wet, so I added some verm and mixed it up again to get it as close to perfect as possible. After doing that, I did not have any sub left to top coat it. This is probably what your seeds all look like under the top layer.
 
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 10:37 PM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26204775 - 09/23/19 02:02 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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We’ve been in the tub for 10 days. Two days ago, I suspended an 18 watt, 6500K CFL 22 inches above the lid of the tub. I keep it on from 6am to 6 pm.
Today, mycelium covers about 95% of the surface. There are a couple of small bare patches, but they are filling in. There is less condensation on the walls. The mycelium is covered with tiny water droplets that look like glistening diamonds. I take that as a good sign.
Now I await pinning.
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TeaforTwo
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26205139 - 09/23/19 05:13 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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no grows yet here, tagging in to monitor further and say thanks for the engaging work thru on this grow! well done all participants, special note to Tom and Spiritualscience (JD! Salute!
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ISO Serenity
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: TeaforTwo]
#26205323 - 09/23/19 07:02 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Great read! Can’t wait to see how this turns out!
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ISO Serenity]
#26206155 - 09/24/19 09:51 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just before I left home for work, I checked the tub one last time. I discovered the first pin! Whoo-hoo! I look forward to getting home and seeing what other treasures await.
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TeaforTwo
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26206279 - 09/24/19 11:01 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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excellent news, time for tea soon! 
--------------------
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Looking for something? Try Psilosopherr's Tek Compendium and pixelpopper's essentialzzz ForTheWin!
Be well, friend. Stay Strong and Beautiful, Always, and in All Ways~
Look Forward, Seek Truth, Find Real, Go Further~
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26207443 - 09/24/19 08:22 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
Just before I left home for work, I checked the tub one last time. I discovered the first pin! Whoo-hoo! I look forward to getting home and seeing what other treasures await.
CONGRATS! I bet you had a ton of pins when you got home. Normally they will form for two days and grow slowly for a third. On the fourth or fifth day they take off.
I am almost to 7 days from spawning to bulk on my new tub. From the looks of it I should get knots in the next day or two.
 
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26207883 - 09/25/19 06:27 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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It was 87 degrees yesterday and it's going to be 87 again today. I still have only the one pin. Apparently the heat has caused all growth to stop. Hopefully, pinning will continue after the temperature decreases.
Congrats on your new tub, JD!
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26208002 - 09/25/19 08:14 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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that temp won't stop growth. Here when the heat comes it's like low 90's during day and everything keeps growing.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26210401 - 09/26/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I counted 14 pins this morning. The first pin is now about an inch tall and pleasingly plump.
To increase FAE, I repositioned the two pieces of tape over the top holes, leaving a 1/4" opening in the center of each hole. I removed one of the four pieces of tape from the bottom holes, leaving three pieces over each hole.
Does that sound reasonable?
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Shroomboobs
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26211010 - 09/26/19 01:01 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just chiming in to say thanks to JD and Tom. This thread has had a ton of great information and has been exceedingly helpful.
Wishing great success for both of your tubs!
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26212336 - 09/26/19 09:47 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds reasonable.
Give it a couple of days. Even if you have a mediocre first flush, a second can make up for it real quick.
I don't have any experience with those kids of temperatures in my grow area. Sounds like Lurker does though.
No PICS???? Share the joy!
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/26/19 10:03 PM)
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the_sonic16
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26212448 - 09/26/19 11:35 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Tom, you'll probably see things explode over the next 3 days. The heatwave is supposed to break and it'll be down into the perfect temp range for cube growth from there.
Edited by the_sonic16 (09/27/19 12:04 AM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: the_sonic16]
#26213168 - 09/27/19 10:20 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys,
For some reason, I can no longer attach photos. I don't understand the problem.
The heat waved passed and we're once again back to a normal temperature.
This morning, there were dozens of pins. I removed a piece of tape from the top holes. The top holes are now half-open. I removed another piece of tape from the bottom holes. They are now covered with a single layer of tape.
One long edge of the tub is about 8 inches away from a bookcase. The other long edge faces the open office. To ensure that both sides are getting roughly equal amounts of FAE, I'm now rotating the tub every day.
There are still large droplets on the inside of the lid. They occasionally fall onto the substrate. There are two or three 1/2 inch "puddles" on the edges of the substrate where I didn't thoroughly smooth the substrate. The puddles have a light green color.
Is this bad news? Do I dare remove the lid, and use a piece of paper towel to wick up the puddles? Or maybe use a turkey baster to suck them up? And if I do that, should I wipe the droplets off of the lid or can I leave them alone? Please advise.
Thanks,
Tom
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the_sonic16
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: the_sonic16]
#26213490 - 09/27/19 12:50 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's hard to tell without a picture. Yellow/green puddles can be metabolites, which are your mushrooms attempting to fight off infection. That's a normal mushroomy process. Not ideal, but nothing to worry about. Don't fidget with puddles and just leave it be :-).
I wouldn't suggest leaving the holes completely open, as that's a great way to grow mold. IMHO, I would leave a single layer of tape on there. The droplets on the inside of your lid are just condensation, not an indication that it's too wet.
I wouldn't mess with it if it's already producing mushrooms. That means something is going right. You can always tweak and optimize hole sizes for future flushes. Just keep in mind your second flush will likely be bigger regardless.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: the_sonic16]
#26213673 - 09/27/19 02:04 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for the information and reassurance, Sonic! I'll leave the tub alone for now.
Tom
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26214773 - 09/27/19 09:55 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Awesome news on the new pins! I don't let water pool for long. If it does so and stays that way for hours then I get some tissue and gently soak it up. Obviously some think differently. Just go with our gut. I don't think I would get a turkey baster though
Ah man that was hilarious picturing that.
I wonder if you are misting or its just the condensation? I doubt you need much misting if any on this first flush.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26215456 - 09/28/19 08:15 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
I have never misted. There are still tiny diamonds of water glistening on the substrate; light condensation trails down the sides and droplets on the lid.
This morning there are even more pins. The first pins are now over an inch tall. It's looking great. The babies love the increased FAE.
Growing out of the substrate near the bottom hole, I discovered what appeared to be a brown thread. It almost looked like a single long strand of mycelium that had dried out.
I wiped a pair of hemostats with alcohol. I peeled back the tape from the bottom hole, leaving the tape attached. I inserted the hemostat through the hole, grabbed the hair at its base, and pulled it out through the hole. I immediately re-taped the hole.
What was that?
Other than the aforementioned tiny light green pools, everything else looks normal, even though I don't know exactly what kind of beasties I'm looking for.
Please advise.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26215514 - 09/28/19 08:46 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
Now you've got me obsessing about the green pools. I've never removed the lid. Do I dare remove it, quickly soak up the pools and close it? Won't that procedure let beasties in?
Due to the condensation, I couldn't take a good photo of the pins. But here's a shot of the tub anyway. I'm just thrilled that I resolved the photo-upload problem.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26216922 - 09/28/19 07:34 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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It would be highly unusual for opening your lid to hurt your grow in any way. You already have it completely open to outside air with the top holes only half covered. Once your tub is fully colonized it is very contaminate resistant. Many use fruiting chambers, where they are opening it three or four times a day to mist and manually fan. Shotgun chambers have a bunch of small holes with no tape completely open to outside air.
I have to open mine and mist a ton after the second flush or so. Opening your tub for maintenance, or just to give it a big breath of fresh air each day, is perfectly normal. I don't think I have ever had a day that I did not open up my tub at least once (after fully colonized). Many are now even using mono-tubs with no holes at all and just offsetting the lid, leaving open gaps in it at all times.
I do keep my grow area clean. I have an air purifier in my room and I spray down the closet it is in with Lysol before putting my tub in it. If you want to be super careful you could run an air purifier in the room for a while before you open it, or turn off any central air to create a semi-still air environment. But that is most likely unnecessary. Just keep your grow area as clean as possible. Don't throw a loaf of moldy bread on the shelf beside you tub, lol.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/28/19 10:26 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26216926 - 09/28/19 07:36 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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That yellowish liquid in your tub is just normal mycelium piss. From the pic it does not look like it is excessively pooling. Either way, it won't hurt to dab up any pooling with a clean tissue.
The pins are looking good. You will have some full grown mushies very soon.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/28/19 10:29 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26216953 - 09/28/19 07:49 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is a lot of condensation on the walls. You can always dry it up a bit with paper towels. Pooling water can breed bacteria. It is the condensation running down your walls and dripping off of your lid that is causing the mycelium piss (metabolites). It is nothing to freak out about, but you can easily remedy it. I would gently soak up any pools of water that are not evaporating within a day or so and stop it from reoccurring by drying up any excessive condensation. You don't need to get extreme or worry, just a little maintenance is helpful. It will probably be fine if you do nothing.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/28/19 10:34 PM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26217871 - 09/29/19 09:24 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
You are a reverend of reassurance and an avatar of advice. Your scepter is a turkey baster.
I opened the lid, wiped off the condensation, and soaked up some puny puddles. Here are some much clearer photos.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26217988 - 09/29/19 10:07 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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You will have healthy full grown fruits in a day or so. I would just pick them as they mature since they are coming in at different times. You can cut them at the base with a razor blade, or gently wiggle and twist them until the come loose. On your first harvest it is hard not to damage the myc because it is very fragile. Later harvests it is tough and you can just bend the fruits over and they come off.
Now, this will not effect your first harvest by any means, but I would keep an eye on the bluish green spots. If that grows you may have a contamination. I would normally just assume it is bruising, but bruising is usually caused by drying or touching. It does not appear dry and I doubt you touched it. If you bumped it while getting the pools that may cause it. It also appears a little yellow and that could also be a sign of fighting a contamination. Regardless, you will have a harvest. Even if it contams, there are ways to save most of your first flush and then throw it away. Let's hope it does not contam and you get a lot more :-)
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/29/19 11:16 PM)
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ChardRich
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26219343 - 09/29/19 09:49 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
JD,
You are a reverend of reassurance and an avatar of advice. Your scepter is a turkey baster.
I opened the lid, wiped off the condensation, and soaked up some puny puddles. Here are some much clearer photos.
That sub is bacterial all over and the green appears to be the trich.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26219395 - 09/29/19 11:14 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Have the spots spread Tom? If that was trich then your tub would be really ugly by now (Considering you saw the green spots several days ago). It spreads fast once it turns green. If those spots stay the way they are in the pic then it is not trich. Trich also has a texture of its own.
If it is, you can get those fruits, but you would want to get the tub out of your grow area before you mess with it.
Here is a pic of trich
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 09:02 PM)
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26219810 - 09/30/19 08:05 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh shit! So the tub is covered in bacteria and trich or it's not. Given the growing conditions I've described, what led to the potential contamination? What is trich and what causes it to develop? Can I get rid of it?
Here is a photo from this morning. Even with your trich photo, I can't really tell the trich from the mycelium. I guess trich looks more like cauliflower. Can you guys see any trich? Is the tub really contaminated with bacteria? Is the contamination spreading?
Can I pick and dry and use all of the fruit that is continuing to be produced? If it's contaminated, is there a point past which I don't want to pick and use the fruit?
Damn! After all this time and effort! Please advise.
Thanks,
Tom
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ChardRich
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26219840 - 09/30/19 08:22 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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The bacteria and trich are due to dirty spawn.
Going MS>Grain isn’t recommended because it has a high rate of failure. This is because MS syringes aren’t inherently clean.
If you want to keep getting deeper into this hobby, it’s highly recommended you learn agar.
You can pick the fruits, but I would do so soon, as the bacteria and trich will take over quickly. I would toss after harvesting the fruits that are there.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220024 - 09/30/19 09:59 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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ChardRich,
My spawn bags showed no contamination, but some of my grain wasn't colonized when I transferred it to the substrate. Could that have led to "dirty spawn"?
You also say it might have been an unclean spore syringe. If so, wouldn't I have seen contamination in the spawn bags? I never had a contamination problem with syringes and BRF jars.
Is there any way to kill the bacteria and trich?
Thanks.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220045 - 09/30/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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BRF jars are more resilient than grains. You can't always see contamination. Your bags probably did show contamination. If they were at all wet in certain spots, that indicates bacteria. Also, if there were areas that did not colonize, it was probably due to bacteria.
I can assure you that your spawn bags were not clean and that is what is leaving you with your current problems. Agar allows you to see contamination quickly and easily so you can be sure you have a clean culture to transfer to grains.
If you want to move to grains, you'll need a PC, agar skills and oat/wbs prep skills.
As far as your tub, no. It isn't salvageable.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26220057 - 09/30/19 10:21 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Have the spots spread Tom? If that was trich then your tub would be really ugly by now. It spreads fast. If those spots stay the way they are in the pic then it is not trich. Trich also has a texture of its own.
If it is, you can get those fruits, but you would want to get the tub out of your grow area before you mess with it.
Here is a pic of trich
You are wrong, it is trich. It starts slow and then takes off.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220127 - 09/30/19 10:49 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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ChardRich,
Damn! Well thanks for the information. It looks like it's back to BRF for me.
Just to clarify, can I let all of the existing fruits mature and then harvest them, even though they're at different stages of growth?
What about the new pins that continue to appear? Will they be safe?
Is there any way that I can look at a fruit and detect if it's contaminated and unsafe to use?
Thanks.
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badsponge
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220147 - 09/30/19 10:56 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
My spawn bags showed no contamination, but some of my grain wasn't colonized when I transferred it to the substrate. Could that have led to "dirty spawn"?
You also say it might have been an unclean spore syringe. If so, wouldn't I have seen contamination in the spawn bags? I never had a contamination problem with syringes and BRF jars.
Is there any way to kill the bacteria and trich?
Not seeing contam in your bags doesn't mean it's not there. Trich, and other contams, can hide until it appears in your tubs. You can't compare spores to BRF with spores to grain. Just stop trying to make it work. If you want to use grains, switch to agar.
The fact that some of your grain wasn't colonized before spawning is a big clue there was bacteria keeping the myc away.
I agree with Chard, looks like trich to me, and most likely came from the syringe. But whether it's trich or not is irrelevant--your tub is fucked. It seems like the vast majority of Shroomerites think hydrogen peroxide is a futile defense. However, I've seen minority of growers swear by it.
I just had a tub give a great first flush, then saw pink mold. I cut it out 2 days ago, sprayed the craters with H2O3, and hoping for the best. If it doesn't work, I'll get the same results as if I did nothing, so might as well.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220292 - 09/30/19 11:55 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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No need to give up on grains! Just learn agar man, it’s not hard.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220308 - 09/30/19 12:06 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Again, I ask. Can I let all of the existing fruits mature and then harvest them, even though they're at different stages of growth?
What about the new pins that continue to appear? Will they be safe?
Is there any way that I can look at a fruit and detect if it's contaminated and unsafe to use?
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220381 - 09/30/19 12:43 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay or ignore my encouragement.
Your fruits will be fine. 
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220415 - 09/30/19 01:04 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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ChardRich,
Thanks for assuring me that the fruit from this flush will be fine.
What if fruit continues to appear? Will they be safe?
If pins stop forming and growing, I should not dunk the substrate to encourage new growth because the contamination will just continue to grow too, right? I should just throw the substrate away after growth stops, right?
Thanks.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220421 - 09/30/19 01:08 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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First i would move that tub out of your main grow area to a secondary spot to keep spore load in your grow low.
For finishing off fruits- depends how far they are. Established pins have a chance. You can salt cover the trich in an attempt to slow it's growth and sporulation. but it will still grow exponentially and is in much more of the substrate than you can see. You have a few days at most before it's totally green and gross.
Infected fruits will be fairly obvious. They'll get weak and whither like an abort, get squishy, pick up unusual colors. I would not eat anything that doesn't look & feel like a normal healthy fruit. Any fruits near the showing green i would harvest early just to prevent it getting infected and lost.
/e. I'll just add, chard may sound rough, but he's right and trying to guide you. MS>grains has a high fail rate. You say your bags didn't look infected, but it's hard to notice trich myc along with cube myc and i'd bet dollars to doughnuts your spawn bags atleast looked a bit bacterial because you went ms>grains. MS>brf or MS>agar>xfer till clean>grains are truly your best bets for success and avoiding the green.
Edited by LtLurker (09/30/19 01:12 PM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220423 - 09/30/19 01:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Idk man, no one can tell you for sure. If I were you I would harvest and then throw it away and LEARN AGAR, but you don’t seem interested so good luck!
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26220581 - 09/30/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lurker and Chard,
I'm very interested in your input and I appreciate it. I have much to learn. Right now, I'm just trying to determine how to salvage as much fruit as possible from this tub, because it is my only tub. And you have answered my questions.
Once I harvest and then dispose of this tub, I will further research BRF tek and I will begin studying agar tek.
Thanks.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220786 - 09/30/19 03:59 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys,
With this failed effort receding in the distance, I'm researching my next growing tek. Here are my requirements:
I want to grow fruit in bulk substrate in one monotub. I don't have the space or interest to grow in multiple tubs.
I don't want to inject spores directly into grain bags.
I'd rather not have to build a Still Air Box and buy a pressure cooker and impulse sealer. But I will if I must.
Regardless of the tek, it seems that the first crucial step is to ensure that the spawn culture is clean. I'd do that by dripping the spores onto agar and watching what grows. Then cut off a piece of agar with clean mycelium growing on it and transfer it to grain or BRF.
After it colonizes, transfer the grain or BRF to bulk substrate in my tub.
Can you please refer me to recent links to successful agar teks that satisfy my picky requirements?
Thanks.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26220823 - 09/30/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
That's the current tek list stickied at the top of the forum. It has everything you need in it.
A SAB is a requirement. It's just a big plastic tote with 2 arm holes, nbd.
Pressure cooker is only a requirement for grains, brf jars can be sterilized in a regular pot. Impulse sealer is not required. Grains can be done in quart jars, brf in half pint jars.
Downside of mono is it will take quite a few cakes. An alternative could be shoeboxes. Small simple unmodded 6qt tubs. can fit 2 in place of 1 mono and seperate your spawn incase you miss a bad jar. Takes 4 cakes to make a shoebox.
Agar takes more than a germ plate. You'll put spores to one plate, transfer, let grow, transfer best growth, repeat a few times until nice and clean. There's a comprehensive agar guide in the original link.
Agar>brf is doable, but works best if you make an li or lc from the plate to inoc brf with a liquid ime.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26220871 - 09/30/19 04:35 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Lurker!
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the_sonic16
Mushy McMusherson
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26221154 - 09/30/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can also ghetto-rig a lot of these components. While not ideal, you can make a SAB out of a cardboard box, using Saran Wrap as a top window. I did this back when I wasn't sure how deep into this hobby I wanted to go. I also wanted something collapsible, since I lived in a tiny SF apt. Again, not ideal, but it worked and didn't impact my contamination rate much.
In a pinch, you can use an Instant Pot instead of a pressure cooker. 2 hrs on high pressure will sterilize 4-6 pint jars.
Lastly, you can get agar plates on Amazon, if you don't mind shelling out a little extra.
I wouldn't consider any of these best practices. They aren't going to win you mycologist of the year or anything, but they're definitely workable while you sort out how much you want to commit to things.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26221299 - 09/30/19 08:25 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Tom,
Most of the yellow is already gone. Either your photos are better or the FAE cleaned it up for you. Though the spots look suspect and could be trich, they also may not be.
My comment about it not spreading, which Chadrich says I am wrong about, was because you noticed those spots several days ago. Now it has been more than three days. If those spots are exactly like they were, with no texture of any kind, I doubt it is trich. I don't believe it is possible to look exactly the same for four days if it was trich. I could certainly be wrong, just like anyone else, but I have heard many, many guys say that once trich is green then it spreads quickly. I have not had trich.
Lurker's advice to protect your grow area is good, but you have already had your holes open for a while, so if it is trich, which has already turned green, then spores would already be there. If it ends up being trich I would bleach the shit out of the whole area and get an air purifier to run in there as well. If it is not trich, your grow is NOT fucked at all. You may have some minor bacteria. I just think it had too much water on it that was not evaporating and turned it yellowish. Your latest pic shows it being mostly white. It looks good besides the few suspect bluish green spots.
You can eat those fruits without any problem at all. MANY have eaten their fruits out of contaminated tubs with no problems at all. Some have even cut out sections of trich, or salted it, etc, and continued on with a good first flush. The only ones who say throw the fruits away do so out of ignorance and paranoia. You won't find any threads about ANYONE who ate fruits from a contaminated tub and got sick, besides the one's who ate ten grams and threw up and then tripped their balls off for eight hours, lol. The same thing would happen if you ate 10 grams from a perfect tub. You can find many threads that say the fruits are safe to eat, from people with actual experience of eating the fruits out of contaminated tubs. You will also find people guessing. You just have to discern which is which.
Of course, you will have to make your own decisions, but the last thing I would do is throw those beautiful fruits away. IF it was me, I would only open the tub outside for now on! I would definitely put a layer of the MP tape over the open holes. I would watch the tub closely for changes. I may salt the trich as Lurker talked about. Putting salt on one spot will not hurt the rest regardless. If I saw zero change in three or four days and no texture of any kind, I would assume it is not trich. I would not be freaking out about my grow area too much, because I would already know that it is contaminated. If those spots have been there for more than four days now and stayed exactly the same, I would not even salt it. I would bet anything it is just bruising, if that is the case. I have personally seen bruising in my tub that looks similar. Fresh mycelium bruises easily. On my last grow, the first flush myc would bruise if I barely bumped it.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:33 AM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26221321 - 09/30/19 08:37 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LtLurker said:
First i would move that tub out of your main grow area to a secondary spot to keep spore load in your grow low.
For finishing off fruits- depends how far they are. Established pins have a chance. You can salt cover the trich in an attempt to slow it's growth and sporulation. but it will still grow exponentially and is in much more of the substrate than you can see. You have a few days at most before it's totally green and gross.
Infected fruits will be fairly obvious. They'll get weak and whither like an abort, get squishy, pick up unusual colors. I would not eat anything that doesn't look & feel like a normal healthy fruit. Any fruits near the showing green i would harvest early just to prevent it getting infected and lost.
/e. I'll just add, chard may sound rough, but he's right and trying to guide you. MS>grains has a high fail rate. You say your bags didn't look infected, but it's hard to notice trich myc along with cube myc and i'd bet dollars to doughnuts your spawn bags atleast looked a bit bacterial because you went ms>grains. MS>brf or MS>agar>xfer till clean>grains are truly your best bets for success and avoiding the green.
I think this is really good advice. Notice he says that trich will grow exponentially and turn the entire tub green in a few days.
How many days have those spots been there? Have they had any change at all? The new pic looks exactly like the pic from yesterday. Aren't those the same "green" spots you saw four days ago? I don't think anyone with any real trich experience would say that it would stay exactly the same for four days if it was trich.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 08:41 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26221327 - 09/30/19 08:45 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChardRich said:
Quote:
tomcards said:
JD,
You are a reverend of reassurance and an avatar of advice. Your scepter is a turkey baster.
I opened the lid, wiped off the condensation, and soaked up some puny puddles. Here are some much clearer photos.
That sub is bacterial all over and the green appears to be the trich.
Look at his new pic. The yellow is gone. It is not bacterial all over. At least this time you said "appears to be trich."
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/03/19 12:12 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
Loc: Upper Left USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26221393 - 09/30/19 09:51 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I’m full of it? Lol. All you do is cite outdated information and talk about the one tub you’ve grown.
In fact, you’re so novice, you haven’t even made your own spawn or learned agar. You don’t care to either. You think that because you got lucky with one spawn bag, you’re a god.
And yeah, I sure have, lmao. Not going to get into a pissing match, but you write so much about cultivating when you haven’t done anything besides put a syringe to a couple bags.
That tub is bacterial and it’s has trich. Why don’t you call on LtLurker who agrees (at least about the trich)? Doesn’t really add up. I don’t understand why you’re in such denial about bacteria. All I said was it’s bacterial, not that it won’t fruit. It doesn’t look healthy. See, unlike you, I actually studied the steps and moved on to true cultivation from spawn bags. Now I have more mushrooms, cultures and tubs than I know what to do with.
All you have is one lucky soawn bag tub you tell the whole world about.
I would rather take advice from an outdated book than listen to your bs.
Then again, what else can you expect from someone with a quote about Jesus in his signature.
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Edited by ChardRich (09/30/19 10:06 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26221417 - 09/30/19 10:12 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:34 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
Registered: 04/16/19
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26221484 - 09/30/19 11:21 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26202915/page/1
Didn’t wanna get into a pissing contest, but since you insist. This is typical now, because I decided to get deeper into the hobby.
Have fun with your shit bags. Theyll fail sooner or later 
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
Registered: 06/15/19
Posts: 305
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26221495 - 09/30/19 11:32 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChardRich said:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26202915/page/1
Didn’t wanna get into a pissing contest, but since you insist. This is typical now, because I decided to get deeper into the hobby.
Have fun with your shit bags. Theyll fail sooner or later
If those are yours, they look nice. Good job! I hope you can eat a bunch and learn some things from the teacher.
You have come a long ways since less than two months ago when you were comparing your one attempt gone bad with my current grow. Now your one shoe box picture is "typical." I hear ya
But in all honesty I want all your grows to turn out great. I mean that sincerely. I'm not against anyone.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (09/30/19 11:58 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26221503 - 09/30/19 11:43 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is my current lucky grow. I have over 100 pins that popped up today.
 
I just hope you are not "lucky" with your advice to Tom and have actually guessed right. I am hoping he does not have trich. Those spots look suspect but I hold out hope because I believe he saw them over four days ago. I wish he would chime in tonight. I imagine he is in bed. I finally have some time off. I am about to eat about 5g. Its been over two weeks. I'm ready to blast off.
I wish you the best Chard. I just think your advice is harsh, guessing, and often wrong. That shoe box looks really nice though.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:35 AM)
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26221869 - 10/01/19 07:27 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh man! Just when I accepted that my tub was doomed and I was grieving my loss, you chime in JD and give me hope! What am I to think? You've been with me since the beginning JD and I value your feedback.
Pins are still prodigiously popping and some of the older fruits are nearly ready for harvest.
Because there was still a lot of condensation in the tub, I'm leaving the top holes half open. Two days ago, I moved the tape on the bottom holes to leave 1/4 of the top of the holes open. That helps a lot. There is no new puddling.
Here is a photo from this morning. What are your diagnoses?
Congrats on your pins JD! And I hope you had a rousing ride on the 5 grams.
Edited by tomcards (10/01/19 09:49 AM)
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26222162 - 10/01/19 09:54 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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You'll notice that light gray patch in the lower left corner of the tub. After taking the photo, I scooped it out, along with the uncolonized grain from which it sprang.
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 872
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26222170 - 10/01/19 09:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Lurker and Chardrich think it is trich. Chardrich has very little experience… Lurker, on the other hand, is experienced, but he also thought my bag was extremely suspect… They were both wrong, just on different levels… I do trust some of Lurker's advice… My comment about it not spreading, which Chadrich says I am wrong about… I doubt Chadrich has ever had trich. Even Lurker may have very little to no experience with trich…
Jfc, you sound like such an insufferable prick. We’re all here trying to help each other for free with the best intentions, giving advice based on our own experience, which may or may not match up with others’ experience. I thought your bag was fucked, too. But it wasn’t. I was also wrong, and I’m glad. More fungus in the world is a good thing. We also might be wrong about tomcards’ grow. So? Whatever happens, we’ll learn from it, and be able to give better advice in the future. Everyone wins.
If someone gives me advice that turns out to be incorrect, I’ll let them know that reality did not match up with their prediction, but in the spirit of spreading knowledge so we all learn together—not to belittle them about how wrong and inexperienced they are. You’re not a team player.
My eyes are rolling so hard you have a Jesus quote in your sig. You’re a terrible witness.
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TeaforTwo
Flight Attendant
Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 1,005
Loc: Psychonaut City, Mile Hi!
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards] 1
#26222183 - 10/01/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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hey Tom, noobie me thinks that tub looks good, with the exception of those greenish looking spots (near top, just right of center line). Glad you stuck with it, even if it turns badly it looks like you have some good fruits to harvest! and even clone from if you're working with agar.
I say Well done, Salute!
--------------------
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26222195 - 10/01/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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yea i just caught that comment. I've been growing over 2 years straight now, i've seen plenty of trich and fucked with it different ways. Here's the thing about troubleshooting online, we can only give the most probable responses based on pics and descriptions, there will always be exceptions and things missed because we don't have the materials in front of us and followed through with every step first hand.
You had a shitty looking bag that produced very little over several flushes Spiritual. Perhaps not as bacterial as i predicted and lasted longer than expected, but it sure wasn't a good grow. Slow your role, you've done 1 fucking grow. You really dunno shit after 1 crappy ms>pre sterile grain bag experience. Odds will catch up with you eventually.
Now op's tub. Doesn't look horribly bacterial to me, but again odds are very likely something is happening bacteria wise. That green mold will fuckin grow and is in far more of the substrate than you think(there are multiple green molds not all trich, grow at different speeds), that gray mold you pulled is also not gone and will return soon. You will see, even if you don't believe me right now because you got another newb encouraging you how fine it is despite having practically 0 growing experience. These tubs are sparse compared to most people's standards, while we try to encourage any fruits as success for newbs, don't kid yourself you can do way better.
Edited by LtLurker (10/01/19 08:20 PM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26222324 - 10/01/19 11:07 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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All I said to OP was that his tub looked bacterial and has trich. I still believe those things. Mind you, I never said he should toss it right away. I said he should let the fruits mature, harvest and then toss.
I actually just had a shoebox with trich. It was from the one time I spawned a jar that looked sketchy. You wouldn't know much about jars and oat prep, since all you've ever done is MS to an injection port
LtLurker does have more experience than me, sure. What's funny is him and I basically said the same thing about your bag. We both underestimated the bag's life, but nonetheless, we weren't wrong. It probably had bacteria and you got some highly mediocre flushes.
You go around here as if you're so experienced when you have yet to learn anything about mycology.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich] 1
#26224769 - 10/02/19 12:18 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys,
Yesterday, I harvested the first fruits. They appeared normal and healthy. Yay! They are now withering away in my desiccant box.
Pins continue to appear and existing fruits continue to grow.
I know that this venture could have turned out much better than it has. But I'm grateful that all this time and worry proved fruitful, however meager the yield. This experience and your input have taught me a great deal. Thanks again.
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 872
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26224780 - 10/02/19 12:20 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
They are now withering away in my desiccant box.
No dehydrator? Dude get one now. Any fungus produced is a reason to be happy, but treat em right and get a dehydrator.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26224797 - 10/02/19 12:29 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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 fan drying and desiccant won't get them totally dry and lose potency. Dehydrator is the way to go.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Posts: 305
Loc: USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26226048 - 10/02/19 08:55 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Tom, you can fan dry them for about 24 hours and then stick them in your desiccant container. You don't want to put fresh mushrooms in the desiccant Container unless you have a boatload of desiccant.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26226189 - 10/02/19 10:00 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
badsponge said:
Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Lurker and Chardrich think it is trich. Chardrich has very little experience… Lurker, on the other hand, is experienced, but he also thought my bag was extremely suspect… They were both wrong, just on different levels… I do trust some of Lurker's advice… My comment about it not spreading, which Chadrich says I am wrong about… I doubt Chadrich has ever had trich. Even Lurker may have very little to no experience with trich…
Jfc, you sound like such an insufferable prick. We’re all here trying to help each other for free with the best intentions, giving advice based on our own experience, which may or may not match up with others’ experience. I thought your bag was fucked, too. But it wasn’t. I was also wrong, and I’m glad. More fungus in the world is a good thing. We also might be wrong about tomcards’ grow. So? Whatever happens, we’ll learn from it, and be able to give better advice in the future. Everyone wins.
If someone gives me advice that turns out to be incorrect, I’ll let them know that reality did not match up with their prediction, but in the spirit of spreading knowledge so we all learn together—not to belittle them about how wrong and inexperienced they are. You’re not a team player.
My eyes are rolling so hard you have a Jesus quote in your sig. You’re a terrible witness.
I hear you man. Thanks for sharing that.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/03/19 12:17 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26226196 - 10/02/19 10:04 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
You said his tub was completely full of bacteria and had trich. You purposely chose his comment about me being helpful to do so. You even quoted him saying I had been helpful. You did so to be a cock sucker, and I called you out on it. That is the only reason I mentioned you guys being wrong about my previous grow and your inexperience. I did not want Tom to freak out like I did when you said that stupid shit before. You tell new Growers that kind of stuff regularly.
I use a 27 quart mini tub. I had 140 healthy shrooms in the first flush. I got over 8 oz Dry from the tub. That is not mediocre by any standard.
I don't act like anything. I simply share what I have learned through experience and through studying. You can't point to a single thing I have shared that is wrong. All you can do is talk trash.
I have only talked to a few people on here, and I do so to encourage them because I know dick heads like you go around telling them their grow is fucked. You're still talking shit about mine, after I proved you and lurker dead wrong.
You called me out on being nice to lurker. Well considering his trash talkin bullshit, I won't be nice to him anymore either. He's just as full of shit as you are he just doesn't want to admit it.
You have a serious problem if you think I posted on here to mock you. His tub has trich and bacteria and someone with half a brain needed to let him know.
I think you need some counseling, to help your ass from bouncin off the walls when you get down son
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26226205 - 10/02/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now I must say, I did enjoy your comment ChardRich. I may need some counseling.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/02/19 10:58 PM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. *DELETED* [Re: LtLurker]
#26226231 - 10/02/19 10:21 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Spiritualscience
Reason for deletion: unproductive
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/03/19 12:42 AM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26226285 - 10/02/19 10:56 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Tom,
Sorry for blowing up your post talking to these guys. I got agitated because they did the same thing to me, and I knew what you would go through when they did it to you.
Those greenish spots don't look good, as I was the first one to say. I doubt it is trich, considering there is no texture and they have not spread at all. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. It is surprising that they have not spread in so many days. You can relax in knowing that you will get a very decent first flush and have several great adventures as a result. You had success. Maybe not perfect success, but you have fruits. That is success.
I would still only open the tub outside. Once you are finished, I would clean the grow area with bleach everywhere and get an air purifier to run in the room for a while. I would not leave any holes open on the tub, because if that is mold then the spores will be released in the room. If the tub needs to breath more you can just put single tape on the bottom and top. At least you are not leaving open holes. Of course, I am not experienced on having mold in a tub, and I don't know if the MP tape would keep the spores from getting into the room. I am sure it would majorly slow them down though.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:41 AM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26226393 - 10/03/19 12:45 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sorry for the unnecessary cursing and getting irritated. I went back and changed some of the language
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 872
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26226906 - 10/03/19 09:24 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Tom, you can fan dry them for about 24 hours and then stick them in your desiccant container. You don't want to put fresh mushrooms in the desiccant Container unless you have a boatload of desiccant.
Tom--"JD" obviously has your ear for some reason, I can't imagine why. He's so consistently full of shit. Air drying/dessicants are no match for a dehydrator. You need to dehydrate as quickly as possible, with the temp at max (most dehydros max ~160F), to preserve potency: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25956433#25956433.
Spiritual has one successful grow under his belt, and it was an accident. He put spores to grain, which is not recommended and has a very low chance of success. Chard and I are both pretty new, but I have about 5 successful grows since Feb, Lurker has had many over 2 years. Any one of us has more experience than Spiritual.
All 3 of us are telling you pretty much the same things. Spiritual is telling you pretty much completely different things. Why you would put any trust in what one new guy says, vs the combined advice of multiple growers with proven track records, is beyond me.
I'm not saying you should exclusively not trust Spiritual, you should not trust ANY one person whose advice runs counter to the collective experience of the community. Be careful who you listen to, and keep your bullshit detector on.
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badsponge
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26226911 - 10/03/19 09:26 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
My advice comes from doing nothing half ass. Before I started growing, I researched for months.
Yet you still started with spores to grain...
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badsponge
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Posts: 872
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26226964 - 10/03/19 09:48 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Sorry for the unnecessary cursing and getting irritated. I went back and changed some of the language
You still haven't changed the part where you called Chard a "cock sucker." Weird.
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26226980 - 10/03/19 09:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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You made all newby moves and didn't actually grow. You shot spore juice into a bag someone else made. The ego you have over 1 spore jockey run blows my mind.
Frankly i don't believe your count. You have a few nice pics in your thread with some fatties and a decent count(especially the first harvest), but no where near 7oz. I think you either made mistakes, or are exaggerating.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26227116 - 10/03/19 10:57 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can anyone recommend a good food dehydrator?
Hopefully this simple request won't exacerbate the ongoing fight.
Thanks.
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26227128 - 10/03/19 11:02 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
Can anyone recommend a good food dehydrator?
Hopefully this simple request won't exacerbate the ongoing fight.
Thanks.
 sorry bout that man. any dehydrator. most cheap ones without any settings will run around 160F, that's perfect.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26227215 - 10/03/19 11:41 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lurker,
I heard that 95 degrees was an optimal temp. Not true?
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26227238 - 10/03/19 11:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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not true. hotter is better. drying them faster locks in potency. The upper limit on temp would be burning them.
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badsponge
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26227268 - 10/03/19 12:02 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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tomcards
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Posts: 427
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26227674 - 10/03/19 03:24 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26227710 - 10/03/19 03:41 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice! However, if it were me, I'd put the fruits in a paper bag and in the fridge till the dehydro arrives.
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tomcards
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26227773 - 10/03/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Badsponge,
I know that putting them in a paper bag in the fridge will preserve them and minimize contamination, but it won't dry them to the degree that my desiccant box will.
Is there any potential harm in leaving them in the desiccant box until I receive the dehydrator? The box contains three 40 gram desiccant canisters plus about 200 grams of loose silica and alumna desiccant. The fruit rest on a wire screen suspended above the desiccant.
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murderlabz
RIP Stoneman
Registered: 05/18/19
Posts: 551
Loc: The Multiverse
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26228608 - 10/03/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Congrats on the fruits!!!
I seen something in that pic but hard to tell. Everyone says "trich" but it could be penicillium sp, Aspergillus sp or Trichoderma sp etc. The large amount of the yellow myc piss means it's making metabolites to battle bacteria and other competitors. I would leave the piss.
Some times cube myc will grow over the contam to where it looks like it beat it but it's just holding it back until the myc weakens and will take over. Shatakie and Oysters are another story, they will kick the shit out of contams. But you seen the green which is spored and want to get that out of your grow area ASAP. If this is your only tub fruit the shit out of it and lets see what happens then clean up later
Pleurotus taking out Trich
https://www.reddit.com/r/mycology/comments/1si8a4/pleurotus_mycelium_vs_trichoderma_timelapse/
Ever seen Pleurotus (Osyer) myc piss? it's bright orange!
I have had this happen a few times.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: murderlabz]
#26228955 - 10/04/19 06:41 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys,
Fruit continues to grow and pins continue to pop. The fruit averages about 4 inches tall, with 3/4 inch stems and 2 1/2 inch caps.
The substrate is drying and beginning to pull away from the tub walls. I closed the bottom holes with tape to maintain moisture.
I still have some fruit drying in my desiccant box. Per Badsponge's recommendation, I'm putting newly harvested fruit in a paper bag in the fridge.
I look forward to receiving the dehydrator tomorrow.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards] 2
#26229030 - 10/04/19 07:37 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's a photo from this morning, prior to harvesting.
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 872
Loc: SoCal
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26229262 - 10/04/19 09:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
I know that putting them in a paper bag in the fridge will preserve them and minimize contamination, but it won't dry them to the degree that my desiccant box will.
I know. The point of the fridge is to slow the breakdown of enzymes till your dehydro arrives. It would be better to keep them cool for a few days, then put them in dehydro, so they dehydrate quickly at high temp. Drying them slowly with desiccants mean they spend more time at room temp losing potency. If I get an uneven harvest, I'll bag/fridge some fruits for a couple days till I get enough dehydrate them all at once.
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TeaforTwo
Flight Attendant
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26229412 - 10/04/19 11:29 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
Here's a photo from this morning, prior to harvesting.
lol, way to grow Tom!  you going for more flushes, right? 
--------------------
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: TeaforTwo]
#26229490 - 10/04/19 12:10 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Badsponge,
When I get home, I'll remove the fruit from the desiccant box and put it in the paper bag with the growing pile of shrooms. Then I will harvest the next batch. Thanks.
TeaforTwo,
Due to the contamination, I've been advised to harvest this flush and then dump the substrate. But the rate at which the substrate is pumping out fruit is turning me into a greedy goblin and I'm tempted to dunk the substrate and try for more flushes.
Guys,
Despite the contamination that I'm continuing to remove, as long as the substrate is producing healthy fruit, is there any harm in dunking it and going for more flushes?
And do you all agree that it's fine to set my dehydrator to 160 degrees?
Thanks.
Edited by tomcards (10/04/19 12:15 PM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26229531 - 10/04/19 12:30 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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trying to dunk a substrate with sporulating green mold is just going to spread it around, and ime trying to dunk a sub with any lvl of contams seems to make the problem worse.
Plus i really doubt the next wave of fruits is gonna get nearly finished before the mold takes over. I don't keep a tub around when it shows mold unless there's already some healthy established pins.
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badsponge
Registered: 12/20/18
Posts: 872
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26229536 - 10/04/19 12:34 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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TeaforTwo
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26229541 - 10/04/19 12:40 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have no experience, so not sure best step forward on dunk and flush out some more flesh, but.... I would do it, unless the contam proved to be nasty to entire grow space.
about the dehydrator, good (and crucial, imo) purchase! I have a nesco and always run it max temp (160F), for 24hrs minimum (unless it is very small amount), regardless go until 'cracker dry'. further forum reading has convinced me to put biggest fruits on top shelf and test dryness of those, I had not done that intentionally in the past.
High heat like this will not harm potency, ime, but improper storage of less than totally dry shrooms will have negative effects.
--------------------
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Be well, friend. Stay Strong and Beautiful, Always, and in All Ways~
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ChardRich
chardzard
Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
Loc: Upper Left USA
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: TeaforTwo]
#26229544 - 10/04/19 12:43 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TeaforTwo said:
I have no experience, so not sure best step forward on dunk and flush out some more flesh, but.... I would do it, unless the contam proved to be nasty to entire grow space.
about the dehydrator, good (and crucial, imo) purchase! I have a nesco and always run it max temp (160F), for 24hrs minimum (unless it is very small amount), regardless go until 'cracker dry'. further forum reading has convinced me to put biggest fruits on top shelf and test dryness of those, I had not done that intentionally in the past.
High heat like this will not harm potency, ime, but improper storage of less than totally dry shrooms will have negative effects.
Dude it has trich all over
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the_sonic16
Mushy McMusherson
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Posts: 396
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26229548 - 10/04/19 12:48 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LtLurker said:
trying to dunk a substrate with sporulating green mold is just going to spread it around, and ime trying to dunk a sub with any lvl of contams seems to make the problem worse.
Plus i really doubt the next wave of fruits is gonna get nearly finished before the mold takes over. I don't keep a tub around when it shows mold unless there's already some healthy established pins.
I'm usually a "give it a shot and see what happens" kind of guy, but I agree with Lurker here. Dunking is gonna spread that shit around. Depending on how badly it blooms from there it's not beyond the realm of possibility to say that it could impact a future grow. (More spores floating around your place = more potential for future contam). The juice isn't worth the squeeze imho.
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Sonic's "I'll buy a pressure cooker someday" Instant Pot times and settings:
- Popping Corn Rapid Re-hydration - Half fill all containers with corn. Empty into Instant Pot. Cover with water. Run 30 minutes on PC. Release, remove, dry.
- Wheat/Rye Berry Soak Re-hydration - Half fill all containers with grain. Empty in pot with water. Soak for 6-12 hours, air dry until surface is completely dry.
- Grain Jar Sterilization - Run 2 - 2.5 hrs on PC
- PastyPlates, MEA Formulation- Run 45 minutes on PC
- LME Liquid Culture - Run 45 minutes on PC
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TeaforTwo
Flight Attendant
Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 1,005
Loc: Psychonaut City, Mile Hi!
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26229583 - 10/04/19 01:13 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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hey ChardRich, yah, as mentioned ima nooob so not even close to smart on any contam, but if trich then dump it is better than potential infect all grow space for a few more fruits.
If it was my only tub going, and I was still not see the spots grow larger than those pics from over week ago, then I'd probably soak the sub and go for second flush (and end up bleaching the chit out of my grow space for a week afterwards lol)...
OP already pulled off something not expected, so...
--------------------
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Looking for something? Try Psilosopherr's Tek Compendium and pixelpopper's essentialzzz ForTheWin!
Be well, friend. Stay Strong and Beautiful, Always, and in All Ways~
Look Forward, Seek Truth, Find Real, Go Further~
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
Registered: 06/15/19
Posts: 305
Loc: USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230288 - 10/04/19 06:51 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah okay
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:43 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230311 - 10/04/19 07:06 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's not 5 oz you tool
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Edited by ChardRich (10/04/19 07:32 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: badsponge]
#26230323 - 10/04/19 07:13 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Perhaps you would like to share something specific that I said that was "full of shit."
I had a tub with seven flushes and zero contaminants. I have eaten well over 40 grams and still have 4.5 ounces left. I am harvesting my tub again now on its first flush. No one accidentally does that. People have been growing with spores for many years. You may have a higher success rate with agar but that does not make growing with spores an accident.
You said, "All three of us are telling you the same thing and spiritual is telling you pretty much completely different." That is another generalization that is simply not true. The only thing different I have said is that it may not be trich. Perhaps you should read a little more carefully.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:47 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Posts: 1,167
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230330 - 10/04/19 07:16 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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All you do is brag and boast about one spawn bag with bacteria you managed to get some half ass flushes with.
If that is truly 5 ounces, show us with them on the scale big boy
You write a lot for someone who knows so little.
Dehydrators are superior to any other drying methods, ask any experienced cultivators on here you ignorant moron.
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Edited by ChardRich (10/04/19 07:17 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26230331 - 10/04/19 07:16 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Actually it is. I can cram three ounces in large jars. They get broken up but I grind them to powder and put them in cranberry juice right before consumption anyway.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/04/19 11:11 PM)
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LtLurker
Lost Sailor
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230337 - 10/04/19 07:17 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said: in my desiccant container
aaand that's where you fucked up. desiccant chamber? Your shit isn't dry, you're weighing water 
That picture is no where near 5 oz. more like 2-3oz at best, which for a full mono is what you should get from a single flush or 2. Get a dehydrator. Stop acting like a know it all. Seriously you're on some asshole shit right now talking about how does and doesn't give good advice, what is and isn't good practice, but you obviously barely have a clue what you're doing for yourself.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230340 - 10/04/19 07:19 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spiritualscience said:
Yes it is you cocksucking bitch.
Oh shit he real mad. Would Jesus approve of this language sir?
What part of the bible said "Thou is a cocksucking bitch"..?
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Edited by ChardRich (10/04/19 07:21 PM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230353 - 10/04/19 07:22 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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After fan drying shrooms, any good desiccant will get them cracker dry, if you use enough of it.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:48 AM)
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26230356 - 10/04/19 07:23 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Probably not
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/05/19 01:10 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230361 - 10/04/19 07:24 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe you should learn how to grow mushrooms instead of name calling
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Edited by ChardRich (10/04/19 07:32 PM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230362 - 10/04/19 07:24 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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fan and desiccant is the worst way you could attempt to dry your shrooms dumbass. Nobody on shroomery would agree with what you just said. Not only are they not dry, but they're losing potency. Again, you have no fuckin clue what you're talking about.
And to recount, I don't like to go into name calling, i know starting is confusing and there's plenty of old bad info. My problem is your giant fucking ego after one mediocre premade grow. You don't know what you're doing and not only refuse to heed any advice from people with experience that actually know and care how to grow, but you'll inject your own stupid shit as the "correct" advice. You've become a real asshole lately.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230364 - 10/04/19 07:25 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's no helping this guy LtLuker
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230432 - 10/04/19 07:50 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Once again, what specific "stupid shit" advice have I given? Can you quote one "specific" thing I have said that is wrong. You are dead wrong about fan drying and desiccant. Anyone can read up on that for five minutes to find out the truth. If you fan dry your shrooms and then put them in a well made desiccant chamber, they will get as dry as dry can get.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:50 AM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230456 - 10/04/19 08:00 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well how about we start with fan drying as stupid shit. It'll take you 10 seconds to search fan dry, sort most recent, and every thread will have the experienced people telling noobs it does not work for all the same reason i told you. You're wrong, you're just plain wrong, go ask about fan drying in a big boy thread and you'll only see one response, dehydrator is king, fan drying is garbage.
Tom should believe us. There's a reason we got a bunch of 5 rating saying we give good advice and know what we're talking about(me over the past 2 years, plus experience before joining) You completed 1 grow where it was half done for you. this is a no brainer on who to trust.
I don't even think you're lying, i just think you don't know how to properly dry shrooms to get accurate weights, therefore, you have inflated numbers for your results. I also think you don't know the current practices and refuse to do any digging beyond finding what you want to see. "Bacterial looking bags, well i search up some other bad bags that worked out so therefore i'm right" "I want to fan dry, so i dig up posts over 6 years old where people were fan drying and using desiccant, it's also in this old ass book". seriously just try to learn instead of pretending you know shit.
Tom, i'm sorry this thread has turned to complete shit with this knuckle head. I really tried to not retort to every little comment while dealing with your bag, I've just finally had it with this guy's ego and refusal to evaluate any of his misguided practices.
If you'd like to make a fresh thread on your next need, we can do things different to avoid this arguing. It is possible to get someone pulled from commenting on your thread if they're flooding you with garbage posts and/or flaming.
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230460 - 10/04/19 08:02 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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fan drying alone vs. fan drying and then using a desiccant chamber to finish drying them are two different things. It is certainly slower than a dehydrator, but will get them just as dry.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:51 AM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230465 - 10/04/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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and they both fucking suck. desiccant doesn't really dry things very well, more like keeps them as dry as they are by helping keep humidity and condensation from building up. My answer doesn't change by adding a desiccant chamber, it's all the same practice from my point of view, i'm not ignoring it.
Sack up and take it to a big boy thread. Go ahead and argue with every fucking regular here.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26230305#26230305
Edited by LtLurker (10/04/19 08:06 PM)
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ChardRich
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230486 - 10/04/19 08:10 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't understand how someone who has
1) never made their own substrate
2) never made/used agar
3) never made/used their own spawn
4) never used a dehydrator
Can be so smug and sure about himself as you?
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230504 - 10/04/19 08:17 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lurker, insults aside, You are simply wrong about this. Desiccant can get them just as dry as a dehydrator. Perhaps you have never used a good desiccant chamber before?
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:52 AM)
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230514 - 10/04/19 08:19 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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But we were not wrong about your shitty bag, it was bacterial.
You're confident about drying, but he made the valid point you won't go argue it elsewhere, because you'd get recked with facts.
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26230532 - 10/04/19 08:25 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's what i thought. You know you're wrong and picked an argument with someone who knows better. So now you're scared to go and double check your little fan & desiccant bs. If you're so sure you're right, you'd have no problem posting in the thread were all the regulars and tc's can see it so you can tell me how wrong i was. Put up or shut up, go ask and argue for desiccant drying in the big boy thread instead of pretending to be hot shit in this kiddy pool.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26230305#26230305
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. *DELETED* [Re: LtLurker]
#26230603 - 10/04/19 09:01 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Spiritualscience
Reason for deletion: unproductive
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Loc: Upper Left USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230613 - 10/04/19 09:04 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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And you already got called on your bs by a TC
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: ChardRich]
#26230658 - 10/04/19 09:33 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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NONE of them have said you cannot get them cracker dry with a fan and desiccant. That is the point Lurker challenged me on. He was wrong again. Anyone can click the link and go see what the others are saying. They just said that with larger amounts they want the quickest way possible.
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:54 AM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26230668 - 10/04/19 09:39 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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they all unanimously said a dehydrator better, that heat and moving air are the keys by other phrasings. Fan drying sucks and is less effective, not impossible.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
Registered: 06/15/19
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26230788 - 10/04/19 10:55 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LtLurker said:
they all unanimously said a dehydrator better, that heat and moving air are the keys by other phrasings. Fan drying sucks and is less effective, not impossible.
Really? That is your conclusion? Come on man, just admit for once you were wrong. I NEVER said fan drying alone is as effective. I never even mentioned fan drying alone. I said fan drying and then using a desiccant chamber was just as effective and would get them just as dry. You have obviously never tried it. You seem to think it keeps humidity off of them but does not pull out all the moisture. That is simply not true. Desiccant will suck out all the moisture. Fan drying first is just so you don't need an enormous amount of desiccant. It gets most of the moisture off prior to transferring to the desiccant.
NO ONE has said, as you did, that you cannot get shrooms cracker dry with a fan and desiccant. None of them said they are still wet after using this method. None of them said it only keeps humidity off of them. None of them said you lose potency with my method. Everything you said was blatantly wrong. They are all saying that other methods CAN get them cracker dry but that dehydrators are faster and more convenient.
You do NOT need heat for effective drying. It simply speeds up the process to make it more convenient when you have a ton to dry.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:58 AM)
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TeaforTwo
Flight Attendant
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience] 1
#26231104 - 10/05/19 06:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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2 more pages since last read. gobsmacked.
just stop.
ya'all need unass Tom's grow thread with your petty bickering. Tom is intelligent and can make up his own mind, he's seen enough info to determine a route ahead and is taking it. stfu and stop ruining his thread.
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: TeaforTwo] 1
#26231216 - 10/05/19 08:43 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TeaforTwo said:
2 more pages since last read. gobsmacked.
just stop.
ya'all need unass Tom's grow thread with your petty bickering. Tom is intelligent and can make up his own mind, he's seen enough info to determine a route ahead and is taking it. stfu and stop ruining his thread.
I agree, this got a bit out of hand. This ego shit bombarding newbs with bad advice and constantly shifting the goal post or constant misinterpretation of what was written several times just drives me completely bonkers. This shit just finally got to me yesterday and why I had him go get corrected in the other thread(not like it seems to have made a difference).
In the same vain, i did apologize to tom for the arguing here and suggest he start a fresh thread on his next question. Unfortunately it seems to be the pattern that once an argument like this has started, both people rarely let it go and will but heads in a similar way with each new question. I definitely have a hard time letting go when it comes to growing advice towards a beginner, I want him to do as best as he can.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26231232 - 10/05/19 08:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Guys,
Sorry to interrupt your interminable, intolerable, ego-driven battle, but yesterday I harvested all of the fruit. A dozen or so additional pins had appeared, but I just left them alone. Even to my untrained eye, the substrate looked too contaminated to proceed.
Here’s a timeline of the whole ordeal:
July 8th: I foolishly inoculated two three pound bags of rye grain with spores from a syringe.
July 18th: Mycelium appears in bag #1.
July 20th: Mycelium appears in bag #2.
August 9th: I shook both bags.
September 13th: Both bags are about 95% colonized, and pins have appeared. I unwisely open the bags, remove the pins from the grain, and mix the grain (including uncolonized grain) into the substrate in the tub.
September 21st: I suspend an 18 watt 6500K CFL 22 inches above the tub. It’s on for 12 hours a day.
September 24th: First pins appear.
October 1st: I harvested the first fruits.
October 4th: I harvested the remaining fruit.
The dehydrator is en route as I type. I’ll fill it with fruit and crank it up ASAP.
I’ll check back in when I determine the final dry weight.
We now resume our regularly-scheduled pissing contest...
"We have no reason to fight because we both know that we're right."
Edited by tomcards (10/05/19 09:06 AM)
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LtLurker
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26231250 - 10/05/19 09:01 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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 You did good on your first run bud. Congrats and they'll keep getting better as you tighten up your technique and keep practicing.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26231265 - 10/05/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Lurker. I appreciate your support.
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TeaforTwo
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26231408 - 10/05/19 10:32 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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way to grow Tom! also good that you chose to walk away from a potential mess (I don;t know I'd have the intestinal fortitude to kill the babies (pins) tho, lol
Salute!
--------------------
See a mush cult pic you love? add it here: January 2020 PoM nominations thread! (up vote your faves to ensure they are included in final vote!). Community selected winner receives a 6mo Supporter account upgrade and/or other prizes from our awesome admin team!
Looking for something? Try Psilosopherr's Tek Compendium and pixelpopper's essentialzzz ForTheWin!
Be well, friend. Stay Strong and Beautiful, Always, and in All Ways~
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Loc: USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: LtLurker]
#26232143 - 10/05/19 05:25 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Congrats Tom on getting some good fruits. I'm sure you learned a lot through this experience. It was great talking with you. I hope you don't get any contamination next time, and I hope you have some great adventures with the teachers.
I harvested my first flush last night. It looked pretty healthy. I have not weighed it yet, but I am guessing it is around 300 to 400 wet grams. I should get at least an ounce dry off of it. I'm not complaining.
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Edited by Spiritualscience (10/10/19 12:30 AM)
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26232200 - 10/05/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
Guys,
Sorry to interrupt your interminable, intolerable, ego-driven battle, but yesterday I harvested all of the fruit. A dozen or so additional pins had appeared, but I just left them alone. Even to my untrained eye, the substrate looked too contaminated to proceed.
Here’s a timeline of the whole ordeal:
July 8th: I foolishly inoculated two three pound bags of rye grain with spores from a syringe.
July 18th: Mycelium appears in bag #1.
July 20th: Mycelium appears in bag #2.
August 9th: I shook both bags.
September 13th: Both bags are about 95% colonized, and pins have appeared. I unwisely open the bags, remove the pins from the grain, and mix the grain (including uncolonized grain) into the substrate in the tub.
September 21st: I suspend an 18 watt 6500K CFL 22 inches above the tub. It’s on for 12 hours a day.
September 24th: First pins appear.
October 1st: I harvested the first fruits.
October 4th: I harvested the remaining fruit.
The dehydrator is en route as I type. I’ll fill it with fruit and crank it up ASAP.
I’ll check back in when I determine the final dry weight.
We now resume our regularly-scheduled pissing contest...
"We have no reason to fight because we both know that we're right."
Hey Tom, I hope you are preserving your fruits somehow while waiting on the dehydrator? I think you said you were putting them in the fridge in a paper bag?
I am only asking because you obviously don't want to leave them wet for a few days outside of the fridge. Even if they were sitting in a desiccant chamber, it may not be enough desiccant to get them dry fast enough before mold sets in. I would hate to see you lose your harvest after all you have been through.
Sorry for the pissing contest. My ONLY intent was to help and encourage you. I should have just ignored the slight from Chard. I am probably the only one that noticed it anyway. If I would have just let it go, none of this nonsense would have ever happened. I take the blame for how bad it got.
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience] 1
#26233100 - 10/06/19 08:32 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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The fruit has been in paper bags in the fridge.
The dehydrator arrived yesterday and I immediately put it to use. I loaded four 10" x 10" trays with fruit, slid them in and set the temperature for 165 degrees. Eight hours later, the fruit was cracker dry.
I loaded it up again this morning.
The remaining bag in the fridge contains enough fruit for at least four more trays.
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Tormato
The Goddess Kali Meh 😛
Registered: 07/01/17
Posts: 6,067
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26233108 - 10/06/19 08:35 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tomcards said:
The fruit has been in paper bags in the fridge.
The dehydrator arrived yesterday and I immediately put it to use. I loaded four 10" x 10" trays with fruit, slid them in and set the temperature for 165 degrees. Eight hours later, the fruit was cracker dry.
I loaded it up again this morning.
The remaining bag in the fridge contains enough fruit for at least four more trays.
 
--------------------
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Spiritualscience
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26234400 - 10/06/19 10:55 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Man, that sounds like a great harvest which will fuel multiple adventures!
Let us know how your first experiment turns out.
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience] 2
#26234747 - 10/07/19 06:32 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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83.3 dry grams. Or 23 3.5 gram doses.
Thanks again for all your help.
And away we go......
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Loc: USA
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26241621 - 10/10/19 12:30 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow, that is nearly 3 ounces on one flush. That is much better than any flush I have gotten yet.
--------------------
Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26242499 - 10/10/19 11:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
I fantasize about how much the tub would have yielded had it not been contaminated.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26243653 - 10/10/19 09:30 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I here you! What sub-species was that? It seems some are much meatier than others. I have B+.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Qualityoverquant
Stranger
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 Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Spiritualscience]
#26243752 - 10/10/19 10:25 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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seeing if anyone out there thinks it's doing well sucks to be a noob but we learn as we go !  
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Quality over quantity 2nd year of growing just got back 👌 its ok to ask for help 🙂
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Qualityoverquant]
#26244175 - 10/11/19 06:24 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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JD,
It was Golden Teacher.
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards] 3
#26247448 - 10/12/19 01:26 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's a photo of one of the jars of the fantastic fruit.
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murderlabz
RIP Stoneman
Registered: 05/18/19
Posts: 551
Loc: The Multiverse
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26247471 - 10/12/19 01:36 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Congrats!!!
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tomcards
Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 427
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: murderlabz]
#26247623 - 10/12/19 02:45 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks murderlabz.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
Registered: 06/15/19
Posts: 305
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: tomcards]
#26252872 - 10/14/19 11:31 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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I may give those a try next time 
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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Spiritualscience
Researcher
Registered: 06/15/19
Posts: 305
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: First time grow with spawn bags and bulk substrate. [Re: Qualityoverquant]
#26252873 - 10/14/19 11:33 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Qualityoverquant said:
seeing if anyone out there thinks it's doing well sucks to be a noob but we learn as we go !
I don't see anything wrong. Time will tell.
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Jesus said to the ones who believed Him, If ye continue in my word, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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