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 LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
 
Registered: 05/12/07
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 Whats your ideal drug policy? 
#26081871 - 06/30/19 02:07 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Imagine a world or country where every drug is legal. Would that be your ideal drug policy? Or would you rather there be specific restrictions on certain drugs?
For me, i would legalize all the safe, classic psychs and then have some kind of restrictive policy for the more dangerous drugs like coke, meth and heroin, to prevent accidental deaths.
What would your custom Drug Policy be like?
*fixed typos
Edited by LogicaL Chaos (04/30/22 03:15 AM)
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Creep
Traveler
Registered: 06/03/19
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Loc: Germany 
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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I would maintain heavy restrictions on opioids, meth and other highly addictive drugs. I would decriminalise or legalise marijuana, lsd and mushrooms et al, but not before a 5 year period of teaching in schools and public education of the risks of these things on developing brains and psyches. Driving under the influence would be automatic licence ban. In the case of marijuana and driving I would set the limit high so people who had been high 24 hours prior to being tested weren't unjustly booked.
Edited by Creep (06/30/19 03:44 AM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
Registered: 05/12/07
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 Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: Creep]
#26081908 - 06/30/19 03:17 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Very well thought out! I like it 
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 DontFearThePeepr
Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 730
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free drugs
and people should probably learn to use these things properly at a specialized facility with highly experienced/trained staff
i want to popularize this idea lol
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nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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This is just an idea, maybe not even a very good one, but I wanted to throw this out there anyway:
Possession is legal, but you should have to get a licence to use (to buy) certain drugs. This would require classes, maybe a lot of classes, that teach you about the experience and the dangers involved. You'd have to follow rules, use in a safe way, etc. otherwise your licence could be suspended.
Different drugs would have different restrictions depending on their relative danger. MDPV for example would still be completely 100% banned.
For opiates, there would be the most restrictions. The government would be the only supplier. You'd have to abide by a shitton of rules (like not breaking the law, holding down a job, etc.) in order to be able to buy them. You'd have to buy them and use them in a place surrounded by info on how to quit, with as much support for people who want to quit as humanly possible. If you broke a rule (such as by breaking the law) the dose you'd be allowed to buy would be cut in half. Breaking another would cut it in half again, and so on. If, on the other hand, you obeyed all the rules, broke no laws, maintained a good job, etc. then your dose could be increased back to its original amount over time with good behavior.
Psychedelics would require a shitton of classes to educate people on how to use them right. They might even require you to use them in controlled environments at first, like at hospital type places run by doctors, or psychologists, that kind of thing. Over time, perhaps you could apply for a licence to use them at your own home; if you jumped through enough hoops, took enough classes, etc. MDMA and MDMA like drugs would probably work the same. Same for dissociatives probably.
For simple stimulants like adderall, ritalin, you should have to take some classes, and the amount you'd be allowed would be closely restricted, monitored, and kept to a medically useful amount. Other stimulants (eg: meth) might not be available for sale. Probably the same for benzos, but with more restrictions, and more help to quit, more classes, etc.
Deliriants and other genuinely bad drugs would not be available for sale.
Still, through all of this possession would be legal, but your drugs might be confiscated if you don't have a licence.
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Citizen X
Buzz Killinton
Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 7,854
Loc: Djibouti
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: nooneman]
#26092032 - 07/05/19 06:25 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good question
How about something like the Netherlands?
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Mguishroom
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: nooneman]
#26760304 - 06/20/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Possession is legal, but you should have to get a licence to use (to buy) certain drugs. You'd have to follow rules, use in a safe way, etc. otherwise your licence could be suspended.
The only issue I see with this is that it would create another situation that could potentially penalize petty drug users and that is a main reason to abolish the war on drugs. Also when you create a situation where each drug has to be used a specific way, this would not allow for people to be able to fully immerse themselves and engage in the experience they want to. While its hard to accept sometimes people will do reckless things but just due to this being dangerous that does not necessarily mean it should be outlawed. The drug education is a great idea and yes should be mandatory but I would say after that people should be free to use the knowledge to their own choice and extent. Therefore foster creativity and freedom of exploration. If they have gone through the classes lets say growing up in school, learn all they need to know and then choose to not follow the rules, they only have themselves to blame. The only time drug users should be criminalized is when their actions lead to the harm of another human.
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Mguishroom
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: Mguishroom]
#26760308 - 06/20/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mguishroom said:
Quote:
nooneman said:
Possession is legal, but you should have to get a licence to use (to buy) certain drugs. You'd have to follow rules, use in a safe way, etc. otherwise your licence could be suspended.
The only issue I see with this is that it would create another situation that could potentially penalize petty drug users and that is a main reason to abolish the war on drugs. Also when you create a situation where each drug has to be used a specific way, this would not allow for people to be able to fully immerse themselves and engage in the experience they want to. While its hard to accept sometimes people will do reckless things but just due to this being dangerous that does not necessarily mean it should be outlawed. The drug education is a great idea and yes should be mandatory but I would say after that people should be free to use the knowledge to their own choice and extent. Therefore foster creativity and freedom of exploration. If they have gone through the classes lets say growing up in school, learn all they need to know and then choose to not follow the rules, they only have themselves to blame. The only time drug users should be criminalized is when their actions lead to the harm of another human.
wow did not see how old the thread was 
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
Registered: 05/12/07
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: nooneman]
#26760312 - 06/20/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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U need a licence to buy certain drugs?
Treat those drugs like they are motor vehicles which sometimes gets into accidents 
I think thats a great idea!
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 18,192
Loc: PNW
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Completely legal with manufacturing only regulating waste and making sure its disposed of safely and properly
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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.
And I am mentally unstable.
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: budmanman] 1
#26831611 - 07/18/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know this thread is old but there's been some recent activity so here's my 
Legalize all drugs. Have an "allow but discourage" stance towards substances with more harm & abuse potential. Put drug policy in the hands of health-departments rather than a judicial departments. Provide education & mental health support alongside the sale of drugs. This has been shown to be effective by plenty of studies in the past. (Namely studies on alcohol prohibition, drug prohibition in portugal, but also other studies)
The reason why decriminalization alone does not work is that it maintains organized crime and we become complicit in the violence caused by the underground market. The only solution is a properly regulated market.
The fact is that as much as we become complicit in the safe use of people using drugs under legalization (a legitimate concern), by criminalizing buyers OR suppliers, we become complicit in the unsafe use, and the violence behind drug use that is magnified by criminalization.
Problematic drug use is a fact of modern society as it exists right now. The choice is in whether we provide those who use drugs with informed consent and support, and whether or not we want criminal organizations to benefit off of, and murder on behalf of, the system we have in place.
Edited by Rhizomorph (07/18/20 10:52 PM)
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data_boop
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B Traven
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I've lost all faith in the system to do anything that leads to a positive outcome.
Prohibition is a disaster, and if the weed scene is any indication, legalization will just be a different sort of disaster.
In the real world, I'm on the sidelines keeping my head down, and gently encouraging people to get off of cocaine/opiates/nicotine, and to think critically about how much they drink and smoke weed.
In my fantasy world, EVERYthing is restricted/regulated.
There is one sole caveat: if you can grow it, and use it for personal consumption only, then you get a pass.
Everything else is regulated to an extreme degree.
Weed and mushrooms are fine to produce and sell as a private individual, but you can't actually set up a large company or hire employees. Gotta keep it small-scale. Local committees of growers would provide oversight, and mete out fines for people who weren't in it for the love of the craft and/or tried to pass off shittily cured weed or nasty shrooms. On the consumer side, joker smokers who haggled and bullshitted people would be publicly shamed and put on "do not sell" lists.
Opium, cocaine, and meth would be strictly regulated. The usual players would be paid over the odds to produce directly for the government, and in a sustainable fashion. Every adult citizen in good standing would be permitted to buy a few pure grams of each per year, after suitable lectures/warnings/checkups. Pharmaceutical uses for cocaine, opiates, and stimulants would continue, but under a much higher degree of scrutiny and regulation. However, old-school trucker's aspirin would be legalized again (underground meth production having been eliminated).
LSD and MDMA would just be pharmaceutical drugs, prescribed by licensed professionals.
Tobacco would only be legal under the "grow whatever you want for personal use" clause. Commercial tobacco production would be outlawed.
Alcohol would be similar to how it is now, but there would be some sort of education program that you'd have to go through in order to legally buy booze. The alcohol industry would be more restricted in its advertising, and would have to hold itself to high standards of sustainability. Also, I'd lower the drinking age and raise the driving age, and make any sort of drug-assisted rape a much more serious crime.
Refined sugar would also be treated like a drug- no longer subsidized, and with serious restrictions on its use in a commercial setting.
Edit:
Legalize khat completely, and make salvia freely available while waiting in line at the DMV.
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Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (04/29/22 08:44 AM)
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SharaVabdas
Registered: 03/23/22
Posts: 489
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? *DELETED* [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27756276 - 04/29/22 08:38 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SharaVabdas
Reason for deletion: Shroomery is full of bigots and I'm leaving.
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: B Traven] 1
#27757170 - 04/30/22 01:18 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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So essentially decriminalize drugs you can grow in personal amounts, medicalize opium, cocaine & meth (you can grow opium and coca leaves though ) for, what I presume you're trying to get at is for people with pre-existing substance use disorders? (this being the higher degree of scrutiny??).
LSD and mushrooms medicalized without consideration of non-therapeutic/unregulated uses?? (e.g., entheogenic, Indigenous ceremonies, recreation, self-exploration, productivity... the list goes on)
Alcohol is more restricted but still less so than cocaine or meth despite it being more harmful overall??
I don't know dude... this feels like it sort of appeals to a nature bias & isn't consistent with the relatives harms, benefits, cultural uses, best practices and research surrounding drugs and drug policy. The false dichotomy between "hard drugs" and "soft drugs" also seems apparent when the relative proportion of variance in drug harms due to drugs like meth or cocaine is more attributable to social causes (stigma leading to lack of access to safe supply, health services & harm reduction) than the harms of the drugs themselves. The actual impact of the drugs themselves on the body are a tiny piece of the pie when it comes to harms.
It also doesn't solve the problem of the two-tiered drug markets (criminal & regulated markets existing simultaneously) as your proposed system incentivizes ilicit access routes which would be lower-barrier in said system. The two tiered system likewise maintains transnational chains of violence and flows of money into things like terrorism, kidnappings, torture, and the list goes on.
I say legalize them all and make the barriers to accessing drugs with greater abuse liability cultural not judicial; make people aware of the harms and utilize educational, and age-based pre-conditions to access. Maybe make access mail-order only with a reasonable waiting period. This way people will be less likely to access drugs through everyday micro-interactions but if they are really that motivated to access them they can go out of their way to do so in a safe way with access to health services and the whatnot.
Lastly, and arguably most importantly: How does cognitive liberty fit into your ideal world??
Edited by Rhizomorph (04/30/22 01:19 AM)
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
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Posts: 786
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: SharaVabdas]
#27757175 - 04/30/22 01:27 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SharaVabdas said:
Legalization tends to lead to monied interests controlling the markets and disempowers smaller actors trying to build their livelihood in the industry. It involves a lot more certification and licensing costs that are prohibitively expensive.
Is this a problem with legalization or a problem with neoliberalism?? (essentially free-market capitalism if you're unfamiliar with the term)
Nobody is out here saying that we should prohibit insulin just because it is heavily monetized; the health & social gains of insulin being available are enormous, and likewise with legalizing drugs.
I agree this is a problem, but A) I believe this is more of an economic policy issue and B) Even if we can't address the monetary issue, I'd rather have monetization than the violence and deaths that currently occur under prohibition.
Edited by Rhizomorph (05/12/22 03:22 AM)
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B Traven
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27757230 - 04/30/22 05:53 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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It's imaginationland, bro.
My avatar is an Anarchist.
In the real world, I'm just along for the ride in this shitshow.
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Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (04/30/22 05:54 AM)
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B Traven
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: B Traven]
#27757234 - 04/30/22 06:04 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Also, re-read my proposal.
Mushrooms are only regulated by local committees, just to make sure that the grow scene isn't taken over by jokers pumping out half-rotten bullshit (just like weed).
LSD and MDMA are the pharmaceuticals (which they always were). And it's assumed that any pharmaceuticals will be diverted to the recreational market. But at least they're pure, and have warnings and whatnot attached to them.
I thought about alcohol, the problem with it is that you can make it from just about anything, and society/culture/our bodies interpret it as a type of food. So I just said, eh, why fight all that.
The point of the cocaine and opium restrictions was to make the imaginary perfect government take on control of everyone's id, so we can all do our 1-3 binges a year if we so choose.
Again, imaginationland...
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Beware of advice- even this.
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? [Re: B Traven] 1
#27758113 - 04/30/22 09:05 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
It's imaginationland, bro.
My avatar is an Anarchist.
In the real world, I'm just along for the ride in this shitshow.
I'm not flaming ya or anything. Just asking questions respectfully 
In my ideal imaginationland drug policy doesn't exist because there's no need to regulate drugs in an ideal world and we can take drugs whenever we want without risk of harm. In imaginationland the question of regulating drugs would be as alien to us as the question of regulating sand
Edited by Rhizomorph (04/30/22 09:06 PM)
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SharaVabdas
Registered: 03/23/22
Posts: 489
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Re: Whats your ideal drug policy? *DELETED* [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27758798 - 05/01/22 02:23 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SharaVabdas
Reason for deletion: Shroomery is full of bigots and I'm leaving.
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