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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26081424 - 06/29/19 07:08 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

interesting result so far.  it seems that revolutionary defectors patriots outnumber loyalist dogs 2:1


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Edited by ballsalsa (06/29/19 07:22 PM)

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: twighead] * 2
    #26081428 - 06/29/19 07:11 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

A militia was used by a Republican led govt to put a stop to the whiskey rebellion . It was used to force drunk assholes and whiskey producers to pay their  taxes .
  I
really would like to know how militias went from being  a law enforcement tool for the state to a thing we are supposed to do all by ourselves to overthrow our own govt that we elected ?


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: twighead]
    #26081453 - 06/29/19 07:32 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
Absolutely.  Again, we are drug users,
Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
@christopera I did not know you were serious, I thought(hoped) you were joking asking that question, here, read up:

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/amendment-ii




Nice, so where does it say that the second amendment exists for people to kill tyrants?

It seems to me that you are making stuff up.





"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Right there,  if you do not understand this, I can not help you, maybe others can educate you on our history, I am not willing to waste my time.



Tell me - what happened historically, especially beginning in 1824 to these militias that were widespread? Many states have their own militias in addition to the National Guard - which is a militia (complication w/ how its been used recently)...

Sorry to paint it bare, but the private groups calling themselves 'militias' do not represent their states,  defend their states, the people living there - or anyone but themselves - they're just right-wing political extremists playing dress up thinking they know jackshit about the constitution :smilingpuppy:




Nah, you're allowed to murder anybody you want as long as it's with a gun and the person you killed is a tyrant. The second amendment says so.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26081646 - 06/29/19 09:48 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: PreparationH]
    #26083051 - 06/30/19 06:53 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
If you just watched the debates, you got a glimpse into the minds of people that hate your right to bear arms.  I do not care what idiots in DC say, The Founding Fathers wrote the second amendment specifically so we can kill tyrants, not hunt or defend our homes.  If these people get into the White House, your right to own AK or AR variants will be threatened.  They like to throw around that they are "weapons of war," that is specifically what our founders wanted, remember, the musket was a "weapon of war" and while technology changes, rights do not.


Idiots in Washington do not give you rights, they were given to you by your creator.  This nation has seen one civil war already, you would be a fool to think it could not occur again.  Do not disarm, and especially, do not vote Democrat.  I feel a gun purchasing surge in the near future, democrats really are great gun salesmen.






Lol, I do not think the creator gave rights to bear arms at birth.  The constitution gets suspended tens of thousands of times a day for tens of thousands of people.  Nobody makes a deal out of that.  The gop are tyrants.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26083150 - 06/30/19 07:48 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Unrelated: You guys hear about the lady in Alabama that got shot in the stomach, miscarried, and got charged for manslaughter because she miscarried and her fetus died?



I actually did not see this story until after reading this, she has been charged apparently because she started the fight and continued escalating it until she was 2nd amendmented and it cost her the fetus, and now she goes to jail.  :shrug:  keep your hands to yourself




She shoulda shot first. Would have been fine that way.

See? Guns fix all sorts of problems. I can just kill my problems with a gun. I don;t need to listen to others, or consider their opinions, I can just...kill them.

Which is exactly what the right wing militias are doing.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26083166 - 06/30/19 08:00 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

You mean the police, military, and general establishment is doing?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26083206 - 06/30/19 08:38 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Hey man, as FOX news just said, leading a country means having to kill people sometimes. It's just bodies under the bridge. Part of the package.

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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26083255 - 06/30/19 09:21 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Check out this video and see what Fox said when Obama was negotiating with Kim

https://nowthisnews.com/videos/politics/fox-news-different-reactions-regarding-negotiations-with-north-korea


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Citizen X]
    #26083578 - 07/01/19 03:46 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Not loading for me. Is that the one where they claim Obama is being played and is begging for a meeting with Kim?

In other news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/30/world/asia/trump-kim-north-korea-negotiations.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

pretty sure it's paywalled, so for those without access:

Quote:

SEOUL, South Korea — From a seemingly fanciful tweet to a historic step into North Korean territory, President Trump’s largely improvised third meeting on Sunday with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader, was a masterpiece of drama, the kind of made-for-TV spectacle that Mr. Trump treasures.

But for weeks before the meeting, which started as a Twitter offer by the president for Mr. Kim to drop by at the Demilitarized Zone and “say hello,” a real idea has been taking shape inside the Trump administration that officials hope might create a foundation for a new round of negotiations.

The concept would amount to a nuclear freeze, one that essentially enshrines the status quo, and tacitly accepts the North as a nuclear power, something administration officials have often said they would never stand for.

It falls far short of Mr. Trump’s initial vow 30 months ago to solve the North Korea nuclear problem, but it might provide him with a retort to campaign-season critics who say the North Korean dictator has been playing the American president brilliantly by giving him the visuals he craves while holding back on real concessions.




In other words, we're accepting that NK has nukes, but just trying to stop them from making more. So, Trump has done less than Obama has.

Quote:

Presumably, Mr. Trump’s freeze would have to be a permanent one, or he will have gotten less from Mr. Kim than President Barack Obama got from Iran in a deal Mr. Trump dismissed as “disastrous.” And even a successful freeze would constitute a major retreat from the goal of the “rapid denuclearization of North Korea, to be completed by January 2021,” as Mr. Pompeo put it last fall.




Matter of fact, this isn't the first nuclear freeze, either.

Quote:

In fact, this approach has been attempted before: It bears strong similarities to the nuclear freeze President Bill Clinton negotiated with Mr. Kim’s father in 1994. But that was a dozen years before the North’s first nuclear test, and before it possessed either nuclear weapons or the capability to deliver them.

Mr. Clinton’s deal held for five or six years, until it became obvious the North was cheating by seeking a new approach to the bomb — uranium enrichment. The North broke out of it in 2003. George W. Bush negotiated a partial freeze at Yongbyon in 2007; it too fell apart.




The man (and I use that term loosely, when referring to POTUS donald) has been played like a fiddle. He's agreeing to less than what we had in 2016, and calling it "progress". He's offering to let Kim keep his nukes and removing some sanctions to keep Kim happy.

Quote:

Mr. Trump’s more limited expectations may, however, mesh perfectly with Mr. Kim’s plans. While Mr. Kim is eager to shed all the economic sanctions on his country, some North Korea analysts believe he would happily accept only partial sanctions relief along with lowered expectations that he might actually surrender his arsenal.



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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26083590 - 07/01/19 04:09 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

The video shows the different reactions of when Obama tried to negotiate with Kim and when Trump tries to negotiate with Kim

It’s just more partisan bullshit that divides Americans. Nothing new but I just thought seeing their reactions would enlighten as to what a difference D or R makes in the world of fake news

Another link https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-video-trump-obama-north-korea-848618


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26083734 - 07/01/19 07:30 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

50/50 now.  that sounds about right


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26083776 - 07/01/19 08:14 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Founding Fathers wrote the second amendment specifically so we can kill tyrants, n



No they didn’t.

If you want to overthrow the US government then you can go to prison. The founding fathers say taking up arms against the us government is treason. You gun nuts are literally crazy.

The second ammendment needs to go if this it what you whackjobs think. If you cared about tyranny you would be the first people out in the street protesting the tyranny of police murdering citizens. Instead you love it. Fuck off with your gun fetish bullshit

Edited by koods (07/01/19 08:27 AM)

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: koods]
    #26084053 - 07/01/19 11:27 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: koods]
    #26084483 - 07/01/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The Founding Fathers wrote the second amendment specifically so we can kill tyrants, n



No they didn’t.

If you want to overthrow the US government then you can go to prison. The founding fathers say taking up arms against the us government is treason. You gun nuts are literally crazy.

The second ammendment needs to go if this it what you whackjobs think. If you cared about tyranny you would be the first people out in the street protesting the tyranny of police murdering citizens. Instead you love it. Fuck off with your gun fetish bullshit




Police murder citizens therefore the second amendment must go.  Weren't you crying for the last few years that Trump is literally Hitler?  People like you should want military grade rifles lol.  Again, the democratic party is not compatible with the second amendment.  Yikes.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #26084502 - 07/01/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The Founding Fathers wrote the second amendment specifically so we can kill tyrants, n



No they didn’t.

If you want to overthrow the US government then you can go to prison. The founding fathers say taking up arms against the us government is treason. You gun nuts are literally crazy.

The second ammendment needs to go if this it what you whackjobs think. If you cared about tyranny you would be the first people out in the street protesting the tyranny of police murdering citizens. Instead you love it. Fuck off with your gun fetish bullshit




Police murder citizens therefore the second amendment must go.



Didnt say that. Im questioning the utility of the second ammendment as a firewall against tyranny when our police behave in a tyrannical manner - killing citizens with close to impunity -  and right wingers sit by and cheer them on. What do you think tyranny looks like? Because to me, the police having the power to commit dozens of extrajudicial killings per week qualifies as tyranny.

Quote:

Weren't you crying for the last few years that Trump is literally Hitler?



Nope. That’s retarded. Hitler is the only literal hitler.

Quote:

People like you should want military grade rifles lol.  Again, the democratic party is not compatible with the second amendment.  Yikes.



Why? I don’t have fantasizes about killing our elected leaders. That’s on you. And it’s weird and dangerous .


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: PreparationH]
    #26084613 - 07/01/19 04:07 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

It takes more than guns to overthrow a repressive Govt.  It takes an armed revolution but fact is there's been many peaceful revolutions.  It takes organizing.  Truth is armed revolutions tend to turn into even more repression.

It depends how repressive a regine is.  If they are too repressive, their psycology will be their own undoing.  In America, greed will be our undoing.


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26084642 - 07/01/19 04:27 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

The idea the people would fight the government is one thing. The legalities of it are something else.

It's a complete and total fabrication to believe the second amendment provides citizens with the right to fight the government, tyrannical or not. It says absolutely nothing about tyranny. In the 250 years of second amendment precedent, not a word about fighting tyranny.

As a result, this thread is based in imagination land, one where gun fantasies run rampant and facts take the back seat.

The cherry on top is in OP's own source, apparently OP believes it proves that the second amendment lets citizens murder tyrants. Of course it basically counters everything that was stated in post 1. It should be noted, "tyranny" is only mentioned once in the entire article, I've posted it below.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/amendment-ii

Quote:

Much has changed since 1791. The traditional militia fell into desuetude, and state-based militia organizations were eventually incorporated into the federal military structure. The nation’s military establishment has become enormously more powerful than eighteenth century armies. We still hear political rhetoric about federal tyranny, but most Americans do not fear the nation’s armed forces and virtually no one thinks that an armed populace could defeat those forces in battle. Furthermore, eighteenth century civilians routinely kept at home the very same weapons they would need if called to serve in the militia, while modern soldiers are equipped with weapons that differ significantly from those generally thought appropriate for civilian uses. Civilians no longer expect to use their household weapons for militia duty, although they still keep and bear arms to defend against common criminals (as well as for hunting and other forms of recreation).




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Edited by christopera (07/01/19 08:26 PM)

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera]
    #26084739 - 07/01/19 05:29 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

They think it means shootijg democrates.

Trust me, if someone is breaking in the house and they are armed... Cops arrive quickly.  Having a dog is a great idea because they are unpredictable.

It's unlikely guns provide defense more often they they provide offense or accidents.  Gun accidents and offenses occure far more often than defense.  Fact is guns are a theft item as well.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26084924 - 07/01/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

If the founding fathers intended for an armed population to overthrow the US government if necessary they wouldn’t have made this the only crime defined in the constitution: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” And they wouldn’t have listed sedition as the only activity that gives the government the authority to strip citizens of their rights and imprison them without charge or recourse.


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