|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26792289 - 06/29/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Corporations can't treat people, though. A person has to do that. That person's freedom comes into play. Corporations can't pay for sick leave. Again, people have to do that.
Besides, why assume either of these are corporations? An employer doesn't have to be a corporation, nor does a health care provider. Or does your rule only apply to corporations?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 36 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#26792299 - 06/29/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
For war: we need to make sure the Iraqi people have freedom Against war: the Iraqi people deserve the freedom to make their own decisions
For universal healthcare: everyone should have the freedom to see a doctor when they need to Against universal healthcare: everyone should have the freedom to choose if/when they spend money on healthcare
For owning personal nuclear warheads: everyone deserves the freedom to own weapons in accordance with the 2nd amendment Against owning personal nuclear warheads: every person deserves the freedom to live in a society that’s not looming under the constant threat of nuclear war.
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26792303 - 06/29/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I think you're right about the first part. I'm not sure that it has absolutely no place in political discussion...I just think it has nowhere near the place it currently has.
Maybe.
Anyone can make a political argument for or against anything and center it around the notion of freedom. It’s asinine.
Ask 10 random people what freedom means and you’ll get 11 different answers. It’s a shallow appeal to emotion, and our dumbass society laps it up.
I think you're right insofar as that's how it initially plays out among the general populace. I do think, however, that people can be educated enough to understand freedom as the balance of individual liberties within a society. Once that understanding is reached, a real discussion can be had comparing and contrasting the relative freedom of various societies and/or the ways in which a particular policy will effect the balance of those liberties thereby increasing or reducing freedom.
Of course, some retard will always butt in and say something like, "what about my freedom to take a shit on your porch. That's my God-given right!"
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 36 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26792305 - 06/29/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
If I could retire two phrases from the US political lexicon it’d be freedom and small businesses.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792318 - 06/29/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I think there should be one set of rules for work (which I previously called corporations), and one for non-work (which I previously called individuals).
For example, if you're at work, you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. If you're not at work, you should have that freedom.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 36 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792321 - 06/29/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I think you're right about the first part. I'm not sure that it has absolutely no place in political discussion...I just think it has nowhere near the place it currently has.
Maybe.
Anyone can make a political argument for or against anything and center it around the notion of freedom. It’s asinine.
Ask 10 random people what freedom means and you’ll get 11 different answers. It’s a shallow appeal to emotion, and our dumbass society laps it up.
I think you're right insofar as that's how it initially plays out among the general populace. I do think, however, that people can be educated enough to understand freedom as the balance of individual liberties within a society. Once that understanding is reached, a real discussion can be had comparing and contrasting the relative freedom of various societies and/or the ways in which a particular policy will effect the balance of those liberties thereby increasing or reducing freedom.
Of course, some retard will always butt in and say something like, "what about my freedom to take a shit on your porch. That's my God-given right!"
I’m not even sure most people would agree that freedom is the balance of individual liberties within a society.
I don’t think we can roll back the overuse of the term at this point. We’d be better off starting fresh with something else.
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26792329 - 06/29/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I’m not even sure most people would agree that freedom is the balance of individual liberties within a society.
I agree. Most people aren't educated enough or willing to become educated enough.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26792333 - 06/29/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I think there should be one set of rules for work (which I previously called corporations), and one for non-work (which I previously called individuals).
For example, if you're at work, you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. If you're not at work, you should have that freedom.
That's completely unrelated to your two examples of right to paid vacation and right to healthcare, though.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 9 minutes, 32 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26792347 - 06/29/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
For universal healthcare: everyone should have the freedom to see a doctor when they need to Against universal healthcare: everyone should have the freedom to choose if/when they spend money on healthcare
I know you are spit balling, but obviously this ins't how healthcare works. The freeloaders get their healthcare paid for by those who willingly pay as the system inevitably sees cost for 99.9% of us. Sure there are toilet babies that rack up little cost, but it would be nice if we didn't have people feeling the need to have a toilet baby (the expense seems worth it). I just want to set the record straight before we go too much further.
Carry on.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792357 - 06/29/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I think there should be one set of rules for work (which I previously called corporations), and one for non-work (which I previously called individuals).
For example, if you're at work, you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. If you're not at work, you should have that freedom.
That's completely unrelated to your two examples of right to paid vacation and right to healthcare, though.
I disagree. If you're not at work, I personally think you should have the right to free healthcare. But if you work in healthcare, then I'm ok with some rules on being required to provide healthcare services. Again work vs non-work.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26792369 - 06/29/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
So, we just ditch the 13th amendment and create a class of slave doctors? I'm not sure how you're going to accomplish this otherwise.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792374 - 06/29/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
You think a doctor being forced to treat someone is slavery? What about taking the the Hippocratic Oath?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26792389 - 06/29/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
The Hippocratic oath doesn't require a doctor to treat someone he/she doesn't want to treat. Also, no one is forced to take that oath.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 36 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792430 - 06/29/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: So, we just ditch the 13th amendment and create a class of slave doctors? I'm not sure how you're going to accomplish this otherwise.
We can make the Hippocratic Oath a law, because we can still have slaves as long as they’re being punished for a crime.
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26792436 - 06/29/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Good idea. Let's get a prison medical school set up for lifers and have them give the nation's healthcare. Problem solved.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 36 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792441 - 06/29/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
What a dilemma for America: expand the carceral system but also give people healthcare. A real catch 22
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26792801 - 06/29/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: So, we just ditch the 13th amendment and create a class of slave doctors? I'm not sure how you're going to accomplish this otherwise.
Maybe I'm a little slow here, but I don't get what you mean by "slave doctors"? If I work at a burger joint and I don't feel like cooking the joint's new veggie burgers, is that ok, or does being forced to cook them along with the rest of the menu make me a slave chef? I'm just trying to better understand your point.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26792944 - 06/29/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Forced labor is forced labor. If they use force to make you cook those burgers, it's slavery.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26793105 - 06/29/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
A chef can quit just like a doctor can quit. So I guess nothing is forced.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26793145 - 06/29/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
If they can quit, that's correct.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
|