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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26650747 - 05/05/20 01:13 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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He's also not really comparing the current status to the alternative scenario.
Current: He has the freedom to post. Shroomery has the freedom to edit/delete.
Alternative: He has the freedom to post. Shroomery is forced to repeat his post over and over again.
Between those two, it's clear that the former is a whole lot more free overall than the latter which includes forced speech, and lots of it.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26650775 - 05/05/20 01:25 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I've agreed from the beginning that allowing censorship increases the shroomery's freedom. But doesn't censorship take freedom of speech from posters who got their messages censored?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26650779 - 05/05/20 01:28 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I've agreed from the beginning that allowing censorship increases the shroomery's freedom. But doesn't censorship take freedom of speech from posters who got their messages censored?
No, if the shroomery didn’t exist the posters wouldn’t have the freedom either.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26650783 - 05/05/20 01:29 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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No. Me refusing to repeat what you say doesn't mean you didn't say it.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,038
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26650846 - 05/05/20 01:48 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: But doesn't censorship take freedom of speech from posters who got their messages censored?
No. You still have every single right to make your own platform and site and say whatever you want. Your comment being deleted from the Shroomery does not take that right away.
--------------------
<-- Clicky Clicky
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26650854 - 05/05/20 01:52 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kwyjibo said: With or without the shroomery you have the same amount of free speech. The owners of the shroomery on the other hand have the shroomery as an extra avenue for their free speech which means overall there’s an increase.
Again, people seem to forget what this discussion is about - it's whether "private censorship is actually increasing freedom of speech".
Without the shroomery, free speech would neither increase nor decrease for anyone. With shroomery censorship, freedom does increase for the shroomery, but it also decreases for those who get censored, but nobody wants to count that for some reason.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26650868 - 05/05/20 01:56 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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You've got to be trolling at this point
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
#26650877 - 05/05/20 01:59 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomerInTheRye said: No. You still have every single right to make your own platform and site and say whatever you want. Your comment being deleted from the Shroomery does not take that right away.
I have that right with or without the shroomery though. The shroomery censoring my posts isn't increasing my free speech.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (05/05/20 02:05 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26650890 - 05/05/20 02:04 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: No. Me refusing to repeat what you say doesn't mean you didn't say it. . . . You've got to be trolling at this point
Oh, so you mean I had the freedom to speak with no audience? I'll bet I get that freedom in North Korea as well. 
Anyway, since no one is taking me side, I'll leave with the understanding that others think that censorship increases free speech. I'm disappointed a scholarly article didn't confirm this though.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,038
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26650896 - 05/05/20 02:08 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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The Shroomery doesn’t owe you free speech though. The government does.
--------------------
<-- Clicky Clicky
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ShroomerInTheRye]
#26650909 - 05/05/20 02:14 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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I agree 100%. But if the shroomery censors me, I don't see how that's increasing freedom of speech (only the shroomery's freedom increases, but mine goes down). 
This started with YouTube censorship. The argument was that if YouTube censors you (where you can be seen by thousands), you can always start your own site where you'll be seen by dozens. I don't see how that's as an increase in freedom of speech.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26650925 - 05/05/20 02:21 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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There are untended consequences of censorship....leading to more free speech. Psychological reactance is when people are aware that some information is being kept/withheld from them, they are more motivated to access and share that information.
When I was in school and the first 2LiveCrew album hit, the PTA along with the school banned that album right when it dropped. Every swinging dick bought that album to play in thier Walkman. Had they let things go....guaranteed that album would not be as popular.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26650947 - 05/05/20 02:30 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:but mine goes down
No it doesn’t. You have the same amount as you would without the shroomery.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26651325 - 05/05/20 05:48 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Since we can't agree, maybe we should do a little experiment? Let's censor/ban Kwyjibo from the shroomery for a month and see how much his freedom of speech increases? After all, he doesn't think it will go down any.
SirTripAlot, we can also find out if censoring/banning Kwyjibo suddenly makes everyone want to talk to him.
Sound like a reasonable experiment? Kwyjibo, you think you'll get more freedom of speech, so why not?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26651327 - 05/05/20 05:50 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You've got to be trolling at this point
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26651364 - 05/05/20 06:08 PM (4 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Since we can't agree, maybe we should do a little experiment? Let's censor/ban Kwyjibo from the shroomery for a month and see how much his freedom of speech increases? After all, he doesn't think it will go down any.
SirTripAlot, we can also find out if censoring/banning Kwyjibo suddenly makes everyone want to talk to him.
Sound like a reasonable experiment? Kwyjibo, you think you'll get more freedom of speech, so why not?
I already don't have free speech here, banning me would change nothing.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26651422 - 05/05/20 06:34 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Provided Kwyjibo violated the terms of the website, yes he is to be removed. Not doing so, does not give the owners their freedom of association. Posting is a voluntary act and if one decides to violate the rules c'est la vie.
How does everyone want to talk to him? Most people that get banned get talked about more then when they were posting.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (05/05/20 06:34 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26651425 - 05/05/20 06:35 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Well, ya just posted something.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26651443 - 05/05/20 06:41 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Well, ya just posted something.
But I didn't have the freedom to post what I wanted to or I would have been banned.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26651459 - 05/05/20 06:46 PM (4 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kwyjibo said: I already don't have free speech here, banning me would change nothing.
So you'll volunteer for the experiment?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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