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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647113 - 05/03/20 10:24 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said: What you're missing is that private censorship is actually increasing freedom of speech. It's been explained here.
Enlil logic folks! 
Not mine... many scholars.
Source, or make believe? Google wasn't a big help for me here.
Quote:
Enlil said: It's been explained here, but you can't or don't want to understand it.
I can't understand how private censorship increases freedom of speech, I'll need it explained.
I can certainly understand how allowing private censorship gives businesses more freedom to limit free speech. 
It gives businesses freedom of speech. Freedom not to speak is as important as freedom to speak.
Whether businesses deserve that freedom is another topic, but businesses belong to people, and people certainly deserve that freedom.
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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Shenmue] 1
#26647114 - 05/03/20 10:25 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
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Buckomcdoogle said: I dont ignore people on here, because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with them.
Being open minded is being open to other ideas, and potentially changing how you think it if they make sense.
Have you ever seen him actually give a factual opinion? I can't handle it when people voice their opinions out of ignorance. Didn't you say he resorted to personal attacks because he couldn't beat you in an argument? Very Mod like...
opinions are, by definition, not factual...
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 938
Last seen: 19 days, 1 hour
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Babylon] 1
#26647128 - 05/03/20 10:36 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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"You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts"
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Babylon] 1
#26647145 - 05/03/20 10:49 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Babylon said: It gives businesses freedom of speech. Freedom not to speak is as important as freedom to speak.
Everyone has the freedom not to speak. We're talking about the freedom to censor/delete someone else's speech. Enlil calls the ability to censor someone else's speech "free speech", I call it "freedom to censor/delete someone else's speech". But I'm not a lawyer.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Babylon
Shaman


Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 442
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647186 - 05/03/20 11:35 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Babylon said: It gives businesses freedom of speech. Freedom not to speak is as important as freedom to speak.
Everyone has the freedom not to speak. We're talking about the freedom to censor/delete someone else's speech. Enlil calls the ability to censor someone else's speech "free speech", I call it "freedom to censor/delete someone else's speech". But I'm not a lawyer.
If I put a campaign sign in your lawn don't you have the right to remove it? The freedom not to speak is part of freedom of speech and by denying people, or organizations, the right to remove speech from their platforms we are compelling their speech.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Babylon]
#26647195 - 05/03/20 11:44 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Yes, I have the right to remove it. Because it's my lawn, not because I have free speech.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26647617 - 05/04/20 07:17 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Star Wars has always kinda sucked though .
I always thought so. I saw the first one, as soon as it made it to television, and it sucked, and I never watched another one.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Shenmue]
#26647686 - 05/04/20 08:02 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
Buckomcdoogle said: I dont ignore people on here, because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with them.
Being open minded is being open to other ideas, and potentially changing how you think it if they make sense.
Have you ever seen him actually give a factual opinion? I can't handle it when people voice their opinions out of ignorance. Didn't you say he resorted to personal attacks because he couldn't beat you in an argument? Very Mod like...
You can't handle it when people voice their opinions out of ignorance? That's funny. And the sentence before that you mention factual opinion. We can differentiate between informed opinions and uninformed opinions (although that wouldn't go very good for you), but there is no such thing as a factual opinion. It reminds of when XUL talked about criminal lawsuits.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Babylon]
#26647691 - 05/04/20 08:04 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Babylon said:
Quote:
Shenmue said:
Quote:
Buckomcdoogle said: I dont ignore people on here, because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with them.
Being open minded is being open to other ideas, and potentially changing how you think it if they make sense.
Have you ever seen him actually give a factual opinion? I can't handle it when people voice their opinions out of ignorance. Didn't you say he resorted to personal attacks because he couldn't beat you in an argument? Very Mod like...
opinions are, by definition, not factual...
Sorry, didn't notice you beat me to it.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26647692 - 05/04/20 08:04 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Yes, I have the right to remove it. Because it's my lawn, not because I have free speech.
That's simply not true, though.
The city could make an ordinance that stops you from removing an object from your lawn. The city could NOT make an ordinance that stops you from removing my sign from your lawn. The reason for this is that your right NOT to give me a platform is founded on the first amendment.
YouTube, Instagram, etc. They aren't just platforms, though. Every time someone watches a video on youtube, youtube has to copy that video from storage and send it to someone. That act is speech, just as much as you typing a post is speech. YouTube has a first amendment right to copy that video and send it to someone AND a first amendment right to refuse to copy that video and send it.
That's all were talking about. What you call "censorship" is really just youtube refusing to repeat what you've already said. If you're against that form of "censorship," you're in favor of forcing YouTube to repeat what you said. In other words, you're in favor of forced speech.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Everyone has the freedom not to speak.
That's exactly what YouTube is doing when it chooses not to show your video to anyone.
I think I've said this as many ways as possible. If you don't get it by now, you likely never will.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26647770 - 05/04/20 08:40 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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More Enlil logic folks. 
No, I don't get it. In what country do I require free speech laws to remove a sign from my own lawn?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647796 - 05/04/20 08:59 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Then I guess you never will. Good luck.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647804 - 05/04/20 09:02 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647827 - 05/04/20 09:11 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: No, I don't get it. In what country do I require free speech laws to remove a sign from my own lawn?
Then I guess you never will. Good luck.
So no answer? I'm also still waiting on an answer to the following question as well:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: What you're missing is that private censorship is actually increasing freedom of speech. It's been explained here.
Enlil logic folks! 
Not mine... many scholars.
Source, or make believe? Google wasn't a big help for me here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26647831 - 05/04/20 09:15 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Dude, I tried to explain it to you. Babylon tried. We've sufficiently bored everyone else here. I don't see a point anymore. Luckily, the people who interpret the laws in this country understand the concept. That's all that really matters.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26647843 - 05/04/20 09:21 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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You won't answer my questions? Then how about proof that "many scholars" agree with you?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



Registered: 09/17/16
Posts: 2,016
Last seen: 3 years, 18 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26647863 - 05/04/20 09:31 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Then I guess you never will. Good luck.
Is it not fair to say then that if he can never understand your logic according to you then there's a chance you will never understand his. So basically this will go on forever to no avail.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26647875 - 05/04/20 09:36 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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If you can't even understand the basic concept that companies like YouTube deleting your content is an expression of free speech, I don't see any point in referring you to dozens of legal treatises.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Ovoidhunter]
#26647879 - 05/04/20 09:36 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ovoidhunter said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Then I guess you never will. Good luck.
Is it not fair to say then that if he can never understand your logic according to you then there's a chance you will never understand his. So basically this will go on forever to no avail.
Exactly my point.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Enlil]
#26647967 - 05/04/20 10:12 AM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: If you can't even understand the basic concept that companies like YouTube deleting your content is an expression of free speech, I don't see any point in referring you to dozens of legal treatises.
I get that it's an expression of free choice. If dozens of scholars agree that censoring speech is an expression of free speech, why not point me to those studies? Maybe they'll explain it better?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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