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christopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Herbologist]
#26444502 - 01/21/20 09:21 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Herbologist said: The lib media has gotta be so pissed that it all went peacefully 
You know they wanted a violent outbreak that would have been a juicy story for them.
Not really. I heard a bunch of great interviews, not only with pro-gun people, but also with anti-gun people, and with organizers of the event, etc.. If anything, the capitalists are angry that they can't sell the non-story, and I've never met a liberal capitalist.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera]
#26444528 - 01/21/20 09:40 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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christopera said: qman's point is that the NRA, is by proxy serving the citizens, when they promote gun sales. My point is that the NRA is representing gun manufacturers more heavily, and in doing so, is going against the best interest of gun hobbyists.
Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from on this, though I was agreeing with the following point from qman:
Quote:
qman said: Isn't attempting to keep gun companies in business the same as protecting the purchasing of guns for citizens?
Whether or not the NRA pushes for background checks or not, as you've said most people want, I still believe they are protecting citizens' purchasing rights to buy guns, as qman said.
I guess I think you're arguing two different points, but I'll let qman chime in if he wants.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera]
#26444543 - 01/21/20 09:50 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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christopera said:
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qman said:
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christopera said: So if the companies raise their prices to $1M per gun, then you've protected the right to buy guns?
No. Stop being daft. You are always bitching about the elite. This is a perfect example of the elite running a top down approach to "protecting gun rights" when in reality if that they were interested in that they'd be working with communities and building reliable relationships so that gun owners aren't alienated. They aren't doing that though.
Gun companies set a price for their guns to maximize profitability, that's what the shareholders demand. If they can hike the price without hurting sales, that's what they'll do. It's no different than selling potato chips.
How are gun owners alienated and why should gun companies be working with communities? The only thing gun companies need to serve are their customers.
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qman said:
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christopera said: You aren’t saying anything.
You're making generalizations and when questioned on it, you ignore it.
You do realize that the NRA can serve the gun companies and their members at the same time by promoting the same exact agenda? Just because the gun companies benefit from their pro-gun movement, it doesn't mean that gun right advocates don't also benefit as well.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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christopera said: You aren’t saying anything.
Based on the arguments thus far, I'll take qman's side on this in that I haven't seen any evidence of the NRA "artificially picking companies for your gun lobby to back" and I think it is definitely best for the NRA's bottom line to protect everyone's right to purchase arms.
Though frankly, I don't care about gun laws one way or the other.
qman's point is that the NRA, is by proxy serving the citizens, when they promote gun sales. My point is that the NRA is representing gun manufacturers more heavily, and in doing so, is going against the best interest of gun hobbyists.
The problem is that NRA is not a consumer group, it's an industry group that takes donations from consumers. This is proven by the fact that the gun industry makes the bulk of its revenue from military side sales, meanwhile the majority of the NRA's funding comes from those same corporations. So, who is the NRA's customer then? Well, the NRA has ignored it's citizen members time and time again. Approximately 80% of citizens that donate want mandatory background checks ( https://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2018/feb/27/tim-ryan/after-parkland-shooting-ohio-congressman-said-70-8/ ). Yet, despite their citizen member preference, the NRA opposes this ( https://www.nraila.org/get-the-facts/background-checks-nics/ ). Why could that be? Their largest contributors don't support background checks.
Meanwhile, Virginia loses it's Republican leadership, the very state that the NRA is based in. Additionally, Republicans lost that state while the Democrats ran on a heavy gun regulation platform. So, we potentially have a chipping away of the gun rights the NRA wants, i.e. no background checks on private sales. Despite that it's citizen members want that, all while Virginia elections favor similar plans. So in summary, the rules creep is not only in favor of those who wants more checks and balances on gun owners, but it's what the NRA's own members are saying they want. How is the NRA's opposition to it's citizen membership helping them? Unless they are all seeing, it seems the NRA's motivations aren't there to protect their citizen member's desires at all.
Here's a few more points;
Again, simply promoting gun sales does not mean that you are doing what is best for gun hobbyists. If that were the case, the NRA's citizen members wouldn't be trying to promote greater checks/barriers on gun sales.
The NRA isn't "broke" so that's a false narrative. The key issue here is, do NRA members care more about background checks or having access to guns? I think we both know that obvious answer.
You're getting way to caught up in these polls and not really quantifying the importance of the issue for NRA members.
If what you're attempting to make a case for is true, the NRA should be out of existence in the next few years. I don't see that happening at all.
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Psilynut2
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Herbologist]
#26444547 - 01/21/20 09:54 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The lib media has gotta be so pissed that it all went peacefully 
You know they wanted a violent outbreak that would have been a juicy story for them.
Yes your right , the lack violence and no one being killed makes it different than the last big Nazi rally that comes to mind . It was a goose step in the right direction for y’all for sure .
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qman
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26444550 - 01/21/20 09:57 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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christopera said: qman's point is that the NRA, is by proxy serving the citizens, when they promote gun sales. My point is that the NRA is representing gun manufacturers more heavily, and in doing so, is going against the best interest of gun hobbyists.
Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from on this, though I was agreeing with the following point from qman:
Quote:
qman said: Isn't attempting to keep gun companies in business the same as protecting the purchasing of guns for citizens?
Whether or not the NRA pushes for background checks or not, as you've said most people want, I still believe they are protecting citizens' purchasing rights to buy guns, as qman said.
I guess I think you're arguing two different points, but I'll let qman chime in if he wants.
The polls don't measure the level of importance for the NRA members, correct? If it's so important to the members, they can just quit the organization if they feel they're not getting the proper representation on the issue. In my opinion, despite the polls numbers, it's NOT that important to NRA members.
The number one issue for NRA members is access to guns, NOT background checks. The poll statistics do not take that level of importance into account for obvious reasons.
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Herbologist
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#26444553 - 01/21/20 09:58 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
The lib media has gotta be so pissed that it all went peacefully 
You know they wanted a violent outbreak that would have been a juicy story for them.
Yes your right , the lack violence and no one being killed makes it different than the last big Nazi rally that comes to mind . It was a goose step in the right direction for y’all for sure .
Rhizohunter, listen, as much as you hate gun owners and want them to be Nazis. Its not how it is for 99% of them.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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christopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26444561 - 01/21/20 10:03 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's why I said that he isn't saying anything. He claimed i was making broad generalizations while failing to approach what I had said.
For the record, qman said " protecting the companies right to sell guns (for potential profit)." This right has never been in question. There are limits on the types of guns, but that's it.
That said, the most recent push by the NRA is for loosened international sales of firearms. How does that help U.S. citizens or even apply to the second amendment? Domestic employment, profit generation, those are about the only two things I can see, but it certainly has little positive effect for gun hobbyists. Finally, we have so many guns we don't know what to do with them. Around 15 million guns are sold each year, and there are nearly 400 million guns just in the USA. Purchasing a gun isn't an issue, a lack of long term stewardship and the slow and steady lack of vision from those in a place of power will ultimately hurt the hobby more. The NRA of course doesn't care, they want their team to make money.
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christopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: qman] 1
#26444565 - 01/21/20 10:04 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
The NRA isn't "broke" so that's a false narrative. The key issue here is, do NRA members care more about background checks or having access to guns? I think we both know that obvious answer.
You're getting way to caught up in these polls and not really quantifying the importance of the issue for NRA members.
If what you're attempting to make a case for is true, the NRA should be out of existence in the next few years. I don't see that happening at all.
Do you have any sources, or is it a false narrative?
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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christopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: qman] 1
#26444566 - 01/21/20 10:05 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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christopera said: qman's point is that the NRA, is by proxy serving the citizens, when they promote gun sales. My point is that the NRA is representing gun manufacturers more heavily, and in doing so, is going against the best interest of gun hobbyists.
Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from on this, though I was agreeing with the following point from qman:
Quote:
qman said: Isn't attempting to keep gun companies in business the same as protecting the purchasing of guns for citizens?
Whether or not the NRA pushes for background checks or not, as you've said most people want, I still believe they are protecting citizens' purchasing rights to buy guns, as qman said.
I guess I think you're arguing two different points, but I'll let qman chime in if he wants.
The polls don't measure the level of importance for the NRA members, correct? If it's so important to the members, they can just quit the organization if they feel they're not getting the proper representation on the issue. In my opinion, despite the polls numbers, it's NOT that important to NRA members.
The number one issue for NRA members is access to guns, NOT background checks. The poll statistics do not take that level of importance into account for obvious reasons.
Members are quitting, that's why the NRA had to take a loan of like $5M from the NRA foundation to stay afloat. It's right there in my post from before.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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qman
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera] 1
#26444586 - 01/21/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
qman said:
The NRA isn't "broke" so that's a false narrative. The key issue here is, do NRA members care more about background checks or having access to guns? I think we both know that obvious answer.
You're getting way to caught up in these polls and not really quantifying the importance of the issue for NRA members.
If what you're attempting to make a case for is true, the NRA should be out of existence in the next few years. I don't see that happening at all.
Do you have any sources, or is it a false narrative?
IF background checks were more important than access to guns, they would have quit yesterday. The proof is in the pudding.
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qman
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: christopera]
#26444606 - 01/21/20 10:31 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said: qman's point is that the NRA, is by proxy serving the citizens, when they promote gun sales. My point is that the NRA is representing gun manufacturers more heavily, and in doing so, is going against the best interest of gun hobbyists.
Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from on this, though I was agreeing with the following point from qman:
Quote:
qman said: Isn't attempting to keep gun companies in business the same as protecting the purchasing of guns for citizens?
Whether or not the NRA pushes for background checks or not, as you've said most people want, I still believe they are protecting citizens' purchasing rights to buy guns, as qman said.
I guess I think you're arguing two different points, but I'll let qman chime in if he wants.
The polls don't measure the level of importance for the NRA members, correct? If it's so important to the members, they can just quit the organization if they feel they're not getting the proper representation on the issue. In my opinion, despite the polls numbers, it's NOT that important to NRA members.
The number one issue for NRA members is access to guns, NOT background checks. The poll statistics do not take that level of importance into account for obvious reasons.
Members are quitting, that's why the NRA had to take a loan of like $5M from the NRA foundation to stay afloat. It's right there in my post from before.
Yes, I did see membership is down. Does if have anything to do with back ground checks? I don't see it.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/current-state-of-the-nra-according-to-its-own-members-theyre-fcked
https://gunowners.org/
Or a new organization can take the place of the NRA.
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christopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: qman]
#26444610 - 01/21/20 10:33 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I posted the pudding, bro. It’s right there.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Herbologist] 1
#26444622 - 01/21/20 10:39 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Herbologist said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
The lib media has gotta be so pissed that it all went peacefully 
You know they wanted a violent outbreak that would have been a juicy story for them.
Yes your right , the lack violence and no one being killed makes it different than the last big Nazi rally that comes to mind . It was a goose step in the right direction for y’all for sure .
Rhizohunter, listen, as much as you hate gun owners and want them to be Nazis. Its not how it is for 99% of them.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Psylinut has an abrasive style but is hardly incoherent like rhizo
--------------------
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Psilynut2
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: ballsalsa] 4
#26444666 - 01/21/20 11:14 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I also don’t hate gun owners either , I’m armed to the teeth . I think you can own guns , support gun laws , hate trump , and not accept Nazis into your group all at the same time . I also think you can make a point at a political rally without a gun in your hand , bringing one kinda makes you look like a terrorist .
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Brian Jones
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#26444698 - 01/21/20 11:35 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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As we noted earlier in this thread, Trump has been terrible for the American gun business with one manufacturer at some stage of bankruptcy and another on the brink. Owners and prospective gun owners feel no threat with Trump in office. During the Obama administration sales were way up because he was "coming for your guns", although there wasn't much evidence that he was. The NRA played a part in fueling that fear.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Psilynut2
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Brian Jones]
#26444832 - 01/21/20 01:08 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I bought into it . Ammo was starting to look scarce so I purchased allot , felt silly after ammo prices came down . I still have most of it too . After trump was elected I thought I may end up giving it all to a bunch of Nazis one day , but apparently they are all non violent now so it looks like I will be keeping it . Don’t let the guns at the rally’s fool you , its just emotional support tech .
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koods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Herbologist]
#26444881 - 01/21/20 06:11 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Herbologist said: The lib media has gotta be so pissed that it all went peacefully 
You know they wanted a violent outbreak that would have been a juicy story for them.
Nah. The governor made them his bitch.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: koods]
#26444885 - 01/21/20 06:12 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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The nra manipulates gun owners on behalf of the industry.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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1uptoadstool
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: koods]
#26445110 - 01/21/20 07:54 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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koods said:
Quote:
PreparationH said: Ah, Virginia gun control really poked the bear, thankfully. Trump is tweetin support saying this is what happens when democrats win etc. 
I don’t know if you noticed but the republicans lost control of virgjnia and you can thank the gun nuts for that.
Gun control was the major issue in the last election and you guys lost. Virginia gun nuts yelling that the democrats will take away your guns and the people of virginia said “that’s cool with me.” 
This rally was a great opportunity to round up some domestic terrorists too. Win win all around.
over 30,000 people showed up to the rally a lot of them were armed. no body got shot and only one arrest was made.because someone refused to remove their mask after being told to take it off. the media spread false info about how this rally was gonna be full of kkk and nazi's yet not one white hood and swastika was spotted at the rally.
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koods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: 1uptoadstool]
#26445122 - 01/21/20 07:57 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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You don’t get credit for not having nazis in your rally. Nobody should have nazis in their rallies.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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