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OfflineXUL
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: mycosis]
    #26078270 - 06/27/19 10:12 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Lol a grazing dispute.

That is funny.

I thought you meant civil war. Lol


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #26078300 - 06/27/19 10:22 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
The armed posse was most definitely a factor.



I agree being armed was one factor in deciding the state response. I think your earlier mention of optics exhibits you understand that other factors were also present. Earlier you were much more explicit in the role that bearing arms played: "perhaps the reason they didn't get shot with rubber bullets bit by dogs...etc is that they were armed to the teeth," which is what I initially took objection to. Simplifying the equation as 'more guns = less state violence' is incorrect.



Quote:

mycosis said:
Of course the government could have removed them with tanks and helicopters and gone on to impound their cattle but it would have been a bloodbath. Probably would have had to kill most of them. At the time I suppose they thought that at the end of the day it wasn't worth it and they'd just pick them up in time and make them face their day in court.



No bloody removal necessary - this took place in the desert. Don't let supplies in and just wait them out in the safety of APCs. They had time for a year long seige at Standing Rock. I'm pretty sure Bundy is still grazing his cattle.

You hit the nail on the head with this though: "they thought... it wasn't worth it". A patch of desert in Nevada wasn't worth it. The optics of state violence against a bunch of 'patriots' wasn't worth it. The minor threat to the status quo posed by the Bundy's wasn't worth it. The stakes in pushing the Dakota Access Pipeline through was worth the violence. The optics of violence against indigenous and environmental groups was worth it. The major threat to the status quo posed by the Standing Rock reservation was worth it.

Neither guns nor ideology is the only factor, but personally I think ideology is more significant in deciding whether a movement will be completely crushed by the state or not.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26078306 - 06/27/19 10:24 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

mycosis said:
The armed posse was most definitely a factor.



I agree being armed was one factor in deciding the state response. I think your earlier mention of optics exhibits you understand that other factors were also present. Earlier you were much more explicit in the role that bearing arms played: "perhaps the reason they didn't get shot with rubber bullets bit by dogs...etc is that they were armed to the teeth," which is what I initially took objection to. Simplifying the equation as 'more guns = less state violence' is incorrect.





Having more guns sure didn't save David Koresh from eating one in the face from an ATF agent.

EDIT: My bad, Koresh's crazy right wing religious buddy shot him.

Edited by Kryptos (06/27/19 10:25 PM)

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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26078308 - 06/27/19 10:25 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I believe we agree more than disagree on this matter.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #26078323 - 06/27/19 10:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I think this is a much more useful example of tactics employed against the Bundys

Fact is, there are very few people actually prepared for a long term siege, and even in the times of castles, a siege was usually a death sentence given time, because it's simply not feasible to maintain a stable food supply for the garrison indefinitely.

The government just needs to set up solid overlapping areas of fire and sit back. They'll give up.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #26078344 - 06/27/19 10:49 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

In the times of castles laying seige to a fortified position was a very precarious place for an army to be.


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26078348 - 06/27/19 10:53 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I always imagined it to be a big party whilst they flung poop over the walls.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26078356 - 06/27/19 11:01 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

The US needs to employ trebuchets to throw dead cows at miscreants like the Bundys, a real proper siege!


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: twighead]
    #26078399 - 06/27/19 11:51 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

circumvallation ftw


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OnlinePreparationH
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26078734 - 06/28/19 07:44 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

After last night's show, I am relieved.  It seems that Democrats are actually incompatible with winning the White House.  Morons leaving us stuck with Trump until 2024 because it's a race to the fringe for them. 


Biden saying he banned the amount of clips in a gun(wtf?)
And we all have to pay for undocumented immigrants healthcare costs, no thanks

The Trump/Dem debate should at the least be entertaining.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: PreparationH]
    #26079267 - 06/28/19 01:17 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Lol you must live in a rightwing bubble


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OnlinePreparationH
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: twighead] * 3
    #26079302 - 06/28/19 01:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Lol you must live in a rightwing bubble




Can't wait for koods' meltdown again after the 2020 election, he told everyone they lived in a bubble too, I don't think that guy has been right since :shrug:

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #26079329 - 06/28/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

98% of Right Wing posts:

":cophappy: Ohhhh yeahh.... mmmpfhhh the pain of my ENEMIES!!! :cophappy:"


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26080069 - 06/28/19 10:47 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
In the times of castles laying seige to a fortified position was a very precarious place for an army to be.




Not nearly as precarious as the people inside the castle.

A besieging force was at risk to a separate army allied with the castle attacking the flank, while the defenders of the castle sallied forth to press the advantage.

If nobody is backing up the dude in the castle, the dude in the castle is fucked.

Quote:

PreparationH said:
After last night's show, I am relieved.  It seems that Democrats are actually incompatible with winning the White House.  Morons leaving us stuck with Trump until 2024 because it's a race to the fringe for them. 


Biden saying he banned the amount of clips in a gun(wtf?)
And we all have to pay for undocumented immigrants healthcare costs, no thanks

The Trump/Dem debate should at the least be entertaining.




I mean, Mexico pays for undocumented illegal American's medical costs.

And documented ones as well. Thet's why we have medical tour buses crossing the border.

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OnlinePreparationH
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: Kryptos]
    #26080242 - 06/29/19 02:27 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I invite anyone who dissents against my original post now to go back and read in length the tyrants that disagree with me.  I sat back and did not respond for days for a reason...





The posts in this thread paint a certainly clear picture:

Sadly, those that dissent are either immature or full blown retards and call you a "gun masturbator" for defending Your Constitution.


While no one seriously engaged these failures in any real dialogue in this thread, it is both sad and invigorating that the failed anti Constitution movement is just that, a failure.  The people that dissent are telling us "Do Not Trust Me With A Firearm."  But the truth is I think members of The Shroomery see the exact opposite, the need to NOT trust their government.

Anti gun Shroomery members love the US Government, why else would they want to disarm you?


SAD!

Edited by PreparationH (06/29/19 02:37 AM)

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: PreparationH]
    #26080251 - 06/29/19 03:05 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Can the Second Amendment be completely blocked anyway? I was under the impression it wasn't possible because its an Amendment.

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. (moved) [Re: PreparationH]
    #26080304 - 06/29/19 04:44 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
I invite anyone who dissents against my original post now to go back and read in length the tyrants that disagree with me.  I sat back and did not respond for days for a reason...





The posts in this thread paint a certainly clear picture:

Sadly, those that dissent are either immature or full blown retards and call you a "gun masturbator" for defending Your Constitution.


While no one seriously engaged these failures in any real dialogue in this thread, it is both sad and invigorating that the failed anti Constitution movement is just that, a failure.  The people that dissent are telling us "Do Not Trust Me With A Firearm."  But the truth is I think members of The Shroomery see the exact opposite, the need to NOT trust their government.

Anti gun Shroomery members love the US Government, why else would they want to disarm you?


SAD!




Ha, on the first page I asked for proof about your claim and you’ve yet to even attempt to provide it. Classic gun masturbation.

I'll make it easy on you, just address the first sentence.

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
The Founding Fathers wrote the second amendment specifically so we can kill tyrants, not hunt or defend our homes.  If these people get into the White House, your right to own AK or AR variants will be threatened.  They like to throw around that they are "weapons of war," that is specifically what our founders wanted





Proof, or you're just telling camp fire stories.





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Edited by christopera (06/29/19 05:23 AM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26080325 - 06/29/19 05:33 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Can the Second Amendment be completely blocked anyway? I was under the impression it wasn't possible because its an Amendment.




It can be repealed with a constitutional convention. Seems the GOP is working on organizing one, they want to get rid of the 22nd and run against Obama again.

Quote:

PreparationH said:
The posts in this thread paint a certainly clear picture
Anti gun Shroomery members love the US Government, why else would they want to disarm you?

SAD!




You're right. The Tree of Liberty must occasionally be watered by the blood of Tyrants.

Who wants to get a posse together to execute donald and McConnell?

Edited by Kryptos (06/29/19 05:34 AM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26080330 - 06/29/19 05:41 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Tree of Liberty must occasionally be watered by the blood of Tyrants.




Yknow not everything the founding fathers uttered was wise and quote worthy.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The second amendment is not compatible with the Democratic party. [Re: koods]
    #26080335 - 06/29/19 05:56 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Are we fantasizing about using guns? I’m getting a little hot and bothered.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

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