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Offlinejdawg333
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The Early LSD Experience
    #26058312 - 06/17/19 08:33 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Many early stories of LSD use follow very different narratives than more current ones. I once read that after Cary Grant nearly forced his wife to have an LSD session with him in the late fifties or early sixties, she was surrounded by an army of tiny bear people singing in German gibberish. I suppose I could see this happening, but mainly just on what would be considered a big dose nowadays, something even a regular user probably would be anxious going into.

I've also read loads of other early reports that report a much stranger LSD experience, such as very vivid hallucinations of real objects and all of that. Other possible explanations include people looking back on the drug and messing up the narrative because of LSD rumors and myths, people explaining the same phenomenon with different language, etc.

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: jdawg333]
    #26058382 - 06/17/19 09:13 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

You raise an interesting question. My first two lsd trips were very different from later trips. The first was a 1/2 hit of an orange ball the size of a microdot -I have never seen or heard of acid coming in the form of a ball  since (this was back in 1976). The second (the same year) was a hit of blotter (white on white), a tiny dot that you could barely see on a 1/4 inch square size of paper -it was totally mind blowing and different than any lsd I had after that. I don't know how many micrograms it was but it was a VERY heavy trip, and the overall experience was VERY different than other blotters I ate after that.

Was it because it was my first heavy trip and you can only see the ocean for the first time once? Or was it the quality of the acid IDK. I have talked to chemists who claim to know about such things, and they all say that lsd is a very specific molecule and that there is no differences between which synthesis or starting materials are used -but still... I don't know about being chased by bears and such lol, but those first two trips were much more mystical in nature then later trips which were more "electric" and dare I say superficial in nature.

This is why I stopped dropping acid and switched to mushrooms which have remained my friend and teacher for many years. Maybe it is just me? I'm curious to see what others say.

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: scarabaeus] * 1
    #26059025 - 06/18/19 06:04 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

They used to dose dots and tabs around 300ug.

Up there stuff gets weird hey. I've seen twin pillars made of psychedelic light in my lounge and seen music coming out musical instruments at that sort of dose, as well as a range of other strange visible stuff that I just never encounter on lower doses.

Bit of myth and storytelling as well to the old stories, no doubt.


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OfflineProton
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Northerner]
    #26059137 - 06/18/19 07:14 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

This is interesting... I know what you mean, old school reports sometimes talk about dancing mice and shit like that. I've never had anything like that at all. Is that something that anyone here's had??

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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Proton] * 1
    #26059167 - 06/18/19 07:38 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Well one idea I have is that there is a certain psychedelic effect that's hard to put your finger on but the adjectives very quickly identify what it is I'm talking about. Flowing, fast, fluid, bright, electric, melty, etc. In my opinion, the effects of the drug have not changed significantly over time or anything like that- if somebody trips today, somebody back then would've roughly seen the same stuff. However, back then there wasn't digital stuff and popular cartoons/animations were a much more instant analogy to the flowing, physics-breaking topsy turvy world of psychedelia. It was also a brand new phenomenon for the Western world at that point, so there really weren't established and categorized effects to describe the experience (tracers, morphing, kaleidoscoping, fractals, etc.) They came out of it and based on the time and the novelty of the experience often threw in 'bad' references to explain it or got confused trying to remember how it was. I think LSD would feel very Looney Tunes if not for much better analogies that have been developed, like computers, hieroglyphics, conspiracy bullshit, etc.

LSD visuals are stunning for the first time even in an age with high definition, color, 3D, internet connected televisions and virtual reality and all of that and a huge reputation for being among the most visual drugs ever. I have a feeling the outlandish early reports are simply outdated explanations for the same effects we see now on those doses. Hoffman, for example, described his neighbor as appearing to wear a colorful, evil witch mask, whereas now it's very possible somebody might focus harder on the specific visuals they researched or heard in urban legend and end up describing it as 'his face was melting and distorting and changing color', or how George Harrison described the celebrities around him on his first acid trip 'looked like the makeup was popping off of their face'. All just perspective.

Edited by jdawg333 (06/18/19 07:40 AM)

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: jdawg333] * 1
    #26059434 - 06/18/19 11:12 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

jdawg333 said:
I think LSD would feel very Looney Tunes if not for much better analogies that have been developed, like computers, hieroglyphics, conspiracy bullshit, etc.





While on the topic, some people actually believe there's a conspiracy that most of what we have today isn't real LSD. I haven't been able to understand the full reasoning behind this theory, as it doesn't seem reasonable as all the drug testing services would need to be in on it. The only plausible explanation for something along these lines would be that different precursors and synth routes are being used nowadays, so it isn't exactly 'Hofmann's molecule' that we're taking but perhaps a more easily produced, fully (instead of semi) synthetic bastardization of a sacred molecule.

The cartoon mentions here reminded me of a state that I have seen reported on in recent years, where people breakthrough into 'toonworld'. I haven't experienced this myself and can only relate to a state where one is aware of the illusory nature of the world and everything seems unreal in an exaggerated way. I've also often had cartoon type CEVs which may be due to accessing parts of the mind from childhood, they have an 'early Disney' appearance rather than modern CGI style cartoons.

LSD does feel so slick and ultra modern, even futuristic, that it's strange to imagine Hofmann first discovered it back in 1943, or even earlier depending on whether you believe that the 'Hofmann discovery' itself was a conspiracy and that it may have been Rudolf Steiner who discovered LSD earlier.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: loveacid]
    #26059498 - 06/18/19 12:12 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Well I can say it is as real as the LSD I did back in the 80's and my 1'st couple of times in 1979 and 1984. I still have the same feeling/trip/visuals as I did back then as I do now. That let's me know it is the same molecule at least. Interesting thought about how with modern tech and movie effects how that might shape someones visuals and perceptions.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26059500 - 06/18/19 12:14 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think that one dot paper might have been STP?


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26059574 - 06/18/19 01:06 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Apparently very high doses were normal back then. Like it was the norm to eat 500ug to 1mg.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26059665 - 06/18/19 02:07 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Not quite so high hey. 500ug doses are debilitating for most people. Sure they were a lot stronger though, 300ug is the common dosage I've found from authorative writings. That's still pretty out there hey. Most LSD users these days rarely venture there.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Northerner]
    #26059777 - 06/18/19 03:05 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe we should ask the CIA.

I wonder what the dosage for an average MK Ultra experiment was.  I'd imagine it was enormous.

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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: PrimeNumber] * 1
    #26059789 - 06/18/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

The upsetting thing is that you're probably right. An experiment using a common dose, around 100 micrograms would've probably gone too normally to fully 'investigate' the drug's potential in rehabilitating and controlling people.

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: jdawg333] * 1
    #26059802 - 06/18/19 03:14 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

I remember looking into mk ultra a while ago but was thinking about this just this morning.  What sort of dose and how regularly do you think you'd have to give your "average person" shrooms/acid before they became virtually unrecognisable as who they were before?

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Proton]
    #26059904 - 06/18/19 03:57 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Too many variables to give a specific answer.


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26060130 - 06/18/19 05:24 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

We just want stories of flying dragons and tiny bear people!

There's gotta be someone who isn't 14 who can verify this stuff.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Northerner] * 4
    #26060247 - 06/18/19 06:17 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

My life of taking LSD (however infrequently) spans almost 50 years - 1970 thru just last week.  See: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26051669#26051669

Frankly, the effects seem virtually identical, and, as someone has properly pointed out, TRUE LSD is a very specific molecule.  If you've got the real deal, it could be 1970 or 2070...it shouldn't make a damned bit of difference.  What DOES change is the person taking it.  Back when I was 17 years old, I was a VERY different person than I am today.  LSD has stayed the same...the person ingesting it certainly has NOT!


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Nature Boy]
    #26060277 - 06/18/19 06:41 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

:leocheers:


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Nature Boy]
    #26061246 - 06/19/19 07:42 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Same here.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26062299 - 06/19/19 06:05 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, TR!!!  Good to see you posting.  I always make sure to read what you write.  Saw what you said about Burning Man.  I never made it there, although tripping in Sedona last week was special.  I was looking forward to going to Burning Man once retired, but it looks like that's off the table, now.  :sad:


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Nature Boy]
    #26062445 - 06/19/19 07:38 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

yep, I stopped wanting to go a few years ago. Tripping anywhere here in the rockies is always magical, and I have a great small group of friends to do it with too. Thank you for the compliments!


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OfflineHeadbandOG
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26062834 - 06/20/19 12:16 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Ive had crazier visuals with mushrooms. Aliens, rovers, color shifting mantis's. I've dosed lsd very high with hash and have had some strong open eyed visuals but it's hit and miss. One time i was looking in the mirror and my teeth turned into wood and i could pull on them and they seemed to stretch like rubber. Later in the same trip my vision flipped upsidown and eventually had an out of body experiance and had a full on conversation with my child self. Other times its more geometric shapes


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: HeadbandOG]
    #26063156 - 06/20/19 06:42 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

I see mantis pulsating light on psychedelics as well. It used to be quite frequent I'd have hallucinations of them but have not dosed that high in a bit now. Always get that feeling tho that I would always get when I seen them. It's a weird almost sobering feeling like your mind is being peered into.


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OfflineHeadbandOG
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26064798 - 06/20/19 11:48 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SonicTitan said:
I see mantis pulsating light on psychedelics as well... It's a weird almost sobering feeling like your mind is being peered into.




It looked quite similar to your signature. And thats exactly how it seemed. Like it was peering into my mind. Just standing above me silent and still. However it was communicating with me in some telepathic alien way


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: HeadbandOG] * 1
    #26065621 - 06/21/19 12:23 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Yes pretty much, it's only for a very short time like seconds or less.  One time on K and LSD I was in this weird golden crystal looking cube that was made of constantly interchangeable gi g Crystals or something like that and there were 3 mantis entities forming shapes and almost sending them into my chest. It was very odd and felt like direct communication but unable to understand.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: HeadbandOG]
    #26065622 - 06/21/19 12:24 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

..


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Edited by SonicTitan (06/21/19 01:29 PM)

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26075973 - 06/26/19 09:51 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Re: tyrannicalrex -sorry for the tardy response but life has kept me busy, but I felt compelled to answer your STP question not only for you but others who may read this. No, definitely not STP. I believe a typical dose of STP (DOM) was (is) 10mg -impossible to fit on such a tiny dot on a 1/4 inch sized piece of blotter. Also STP (DOM) being a phenethylamine (which makes it a kind of amphetamine) has a much longer effect duration than one associates with an LSD/ dimethyltyptamine type p'delic. Maybe it was ALD or something similar? I don't know. peace yo...

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26076516 - 06/27/19 07:21 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, ok. There was a couple of other ones around then but I can't remember what.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26076527 - 06/27/19 07:26 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

ALD is identical to lsd in it's effects, most people cannot distinguish between them. You said it felt noticably different, then it wasn't ald.

DOM/DOB/DOI and DOC fit on small blotters. A blotter can hold like 6mg, and that's a high dose already.

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26076562 - 06/27/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, those are the ones.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26082568 - 06/30/19 01:13 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I remember seeing a brief snippet of an lsd documentary can't for the life of me remember it's name, but it basically said that just like others have touched on - the 50s and 60s were pretty drab compared to today. Black n white TV. Boring fashion print signage etc. They said to the effect that lsd back then may not have even been as strong as it didn't need to be that strong to give a full on psychedelic effect. The guy even said something like an hour trawling through YouTube would be as 'psychedelic' to a person from the 50s as lsd was

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: thisbliss] * 1
    #26082589 - 06/30/19 01:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I can't speak to the 50's and early 60's - but acid circa 1970 was extremely potent - especially the orange sunshine.  I got so spun on one of those little barrels that I didn't know who I was, or how to get home.  Ended up in an ER with a VERY angry man who I later recognized as my father.

So, make of that what you will.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Nature Boy]
    #26082692 - 06/30/19 02:39 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Lol you legend I read that story on here recently about the orange sunshine and the singing grass!!! Love it man! I'd say you don't even regret it - great story

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: thisbliss]
    #26082989 - 06/30/19 06:19 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I was under the impression that sunshine was around 300mics per dose. Also was told the strawberry blotted was also very potent.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: thisbliss]
    #26083502 - 07/01/19 12:32 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, yes. The Learyfan interview from 2013.  I've always wondered if taking another large dose of LSD would help restore the lost memories of those hours of amnesia. So far, the answer has been "no."

@SonicTitan:  I've read (and heard interviews) from Scully and Owsley that are in agreement with you. Probably the same info from the same sources. 300ug seems to be the most commonly given number, but who knows, really?  Perhaps more importantly, it was well made, since the precursors (now watched or illegal themselves) were not  so difficult to acquire back in those days.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Nature Boy]
    #26083728 - 07/01/19 07:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

In the movie "the sunshine makers" Scully talks about orange sunshine beeing 300 mics.

Funny thing is, on a table behind him there was written sth like 270mics beeing one dose.

"Around 300mics" is fair to say I guess. :sun:

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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26083796 - 07/01/19 08:32 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

My mom told me doses back then were very strong too.


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26092526 - 07/06/19 03:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Same my mum explained that just one hit back would take her further than desired, then while heading to a shady party, she could pick up on the bad vibes miles away, and told her friends lets bounce hahaha she only ever experienced L a few times, just because it was the "cool" or "in" thing to do, she is by no means a psychonaut :laugh:

In my first few trips it was noticeably different to recent explorations, they were called "galaxy" tabs, also I wasn't in the right setting, but the research and mindset was all sweet, well it was quite a bizarre night out on a farm party surrounded by drunks with a massive bonfire blazing and only two mates were tripping with me, it was one of his parents places, so after having difficult conversations with two drunks that were asking whats wrong, harassing and killin' our vibe, I couldn't reply with clear words, so we left that area while they were laughing and teasing us, then bumped into the homie's mother who said she just lost her daughter she was getting drunk with for the first time (she was 14) and the daughter decided to go for a drunk walk into the bush far away! So we ended up having to go driving up the dirt roads and off track searching (no traffic but still do not drive while tripping lol) we ended up finding her staggering around, though as you could imagine it was quite stressful hahaha these days I know the importance of preparation and having the best environment ready and surrounded by beauty and good vibes, also i found my trips went the best when I fully surrendered to the experience...

Do you think the quality has changed over the years? Or is it just the average dose per hit thats changed?

Anyways this is my first post, thought I gotta start somewhere, have been lurking on The Shroomery since 2007ish but never got around to creating an account :sun:


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26092529 - 07/06/19 03:26 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Such an awesome documentary, just watched it the other month along with the other similar one is it orange sunshine on netflix? Anyways there is 2 awesome ones, highly recommend, it was well put together :grin:


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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: jdawg333]
    #26093598 - 07/06/19 06:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

The experiences I've had have all been pretty close to the early descriptions, especially the descriptions given in Hofmann's LSD: My Problem Child, but also those given by people in the early videos like this one:



Also as others have said, a single hit used to be between 200-300ug. Nowadays, most hits aren't even 100ug.

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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: nooneman]
    #26108916 - 07/15/19 12:52 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Re: general... The blotter I ate (1976) contained a blip of a dot, maybe three times the size of the "period" dot you are looking at right now (.). Impossible to contain 10 mg of anything. But my question is: how many mg's of a P'delic xcan fit on your typical nowadays blotter? Something I never thought about.

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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: The Early LSD Experience [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26108919 - 07/15/19 12:57 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Oops, never mind, scrolling through this thread I got my answer.

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