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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: living_failure]
    #26076654 -

living_failure said:
There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence mainly coming from incels, mgotw and red pilled men.

As i stated, it has more relationship with most women being sexually submissive and extending the ideas related to sexual submission to everyday life than to hypergamy (as redpilled crew usually says).

I can provide a lot of testimonial and testimonial in image form as well as small-poblation studies if you want to. But any redpilled site might work.

I don't think the problem is womanhood or femminity or culture. It is stupidity


Is women not respecting men that make less salary than themselves "stupid"?    Maybe, but it's hardwired into them and that's just the way nature works.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26076659 -

laughingdog said:
qman said:
What about toxic femininity?  Not going to hear about it.


ever hear the word 'bitch'?


So, when was the last time a university or company had a seminar about the hazards of "bitch" behavior?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26076662 -

From a biological perspective much of primate behavior is competitive and hierarchical.
Been reading  Robert Sapolsky who studied baboons in Africa. Their society is totally competitive and hierarchical. One sees the same thing in humans from the get go with sibling rivalry.

Human like to think, of sex as a form of pleasure, and an expression of freedom. If humans have an affair they think they are getting away with something, but all they are really doing is obeying the instincts "mother nature" installed.

Likewise ( a cynic might say) as regards "love", more careful observation reveals, folks really settle for the best they can get. And what they hope to get, is regular sex, in exchange for giving up as little freedom as possible, but regardless, of "who wears the pants", the joke is on both parents, as regards "freedom", once kids 'miraculously' appear, as usually happens, as evidenced by the world population.

"Mother Nature" always has the last laugh.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman]
    #26076673 -

qman said:
laughingdog said:
qman said:
What about toxic femininity?  Not going to hear about it.


ever hear the word 'bitch'?


So, when was the last time a university or company had a seminar about the hazards of "bitch" behavior?  Yeah, I didn't think so.


You sound angry, but maybe you're not. I imagine most 'relationships' are not a 'bed of roses'. I don't know about what goes on in the ivory tower - but I would guess far more folks are exposed to rap music than a college 'education'.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26076697 -

laughingdog said:
qman said:
laughingdog said:
qman said:
What about toxic femininity?  Not going to hear about it.


ever hear the word 'bitch'?


So, when was the last time a university or company had a seminar about the hazards of "bitch" behavior?  Yeah, I didn't think so.


You sound angry, but maybe you're not. I imagine most 'relationships' are not a 'bed of roses'. I don't know about what goes on in the ivory tower - but I would guess far more folks are exposed to rap music than a college 'education'.


No, I pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is a currently a narrative being pushed into Western culture. I also pointed out that we don't see "toxic femininity" in the current environment.

Is pointing out the hypocrisy in this PC social movement a sign of "anger"?  I don't think so, because it goes back to the very discussion we're having in the first place.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman]
    #26076718 -

qman said:
No, I pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is a currently a narrative being pushed into Western culture. I also pointed out that we don't see "toxic femininity" in the current environment.


I think you're discounting the effect of the pendulum swing here. Of course masculinity will be the first on the guillotine, for it has oppressed the other party in question for a huge span on time. Makes sense doesn't it? If one is not a fool one can allow it to be like water off a ducks back, as with so much of the silly shit that goes on out there.

Things happen slowly (from our perspective). Given time, it'll level out.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26076903 -

qman said:
...

No, I pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is a currently a narrative being pushed into Western culture. I also pointed out that we don't see "toxic femininity" in the current environment.


Through most of history, in most places it has been guys, that go war. murdering each other in brutal ways. And most of the governments were run by men, who started the wars. Most sports that have an element of brutality are totally dominated by men. And rape is largely a male crime. That males tend to be violent, in many species, and of relevance here particularly among primates is a documented fact.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=male+chimps+%26+genocide

In many countries, women are very mistreated and victimized and even mutilated--- by men.

Given these facts to get upset because women in the US often want to "have their cake and eat it too" -- you know 'hold the door open for me, but treat me like an equal' kind of thing ', & "tell me i'm attractive, but respect my intellect" kind of thing seems like just normal human everyday hypocrisy. Any oppressed group will exploit whatever advantage it can. Even in education studies show women & girls are as good at math as men, when cultural forces disparaging them are removed. Growing up in a culture that tells you you are not as good as another group, is a subtle but very potent form of oppression and aggression.

So statistically there are good reasons, for the notion that male behavior is more problematic.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26076948 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
qman said:
No, I pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is a currently a narrative being pushed into Western culture. I also pointed out that we don't see "toxic femininity" in the current environment.


I think you're discounting the effect of the pendulum swing here. Of course masculinity will be the first on the guillotine, for it has oppressed the other party in question for a huge span on time. Makes sense doesn't it? If one is not a fool one can allow it to be like water off a ducks back, as with so much of the silly shit that goes on out there.

Things happen slowly (from our perspective). Given time, it'll level out.


I don't think we can call the natural and historical state of men and women for survival purposes "oppression", no matter how oppressive it looks from a civilized 2019 perspective.

"Makes sense doesn't it"

Yes, when BOTH genders agree that change is needed, but after the change has been made and now it's about taking advantage of the situation in the name of victimization, it's called overkill and that in itself is just as dangerous and destructive.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman] * 2
    #26076960 -

qman said:
Yes, when BOTH genders agree that change is needed, but after the change has been made and now it's about taking advantage of the situation in the name of victimization, it's called overkill and that in itself is just as dangerous and destructive.


But the change hasn't been made. Far from it. See laughingdog's post above.

Personally, I think your issue with 'toxic masculinity' is just you yourself playing the victim card.

Humans love to play victim. I get it. I can see why. It's far easier to be one than to resolutely refuse to be one.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26076974 -

Of course government being mostly run by men in the USA,
it is the same male sex that starts wars, and outsources torture,
to other countries, whose lack of human rights they publicly profess to abhor,
that makes the laws banning (or attempting to ban ) abortion, on the grounds that life is sacred.

Women have no monopoly on hypocrisy. From a moral point of view the whole species stinks.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26077823 -

laughingdog said:
Amusingly (most if not) all of the posts here are by men.
And this is ignored by them.



Menbership has its privileges


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman]
    #26078490 -

qman said:
Almost every man I knew that got married and had children with a woman that wore that pants in the relationship. 


How does this jive with the claim most women lose sexual interest in their partner as soon as he shows weakness. I'm confused. Again.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26078511 -

qman said:
living_failure said:
There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence mainly coming from incels, mgotw and red pilled men.

As i stated, it has more relationship with most women being sexually submissive and extending the ideas related to sexual submission to everyday life than to hypergamy (as redpilled crew usually says).

I can provide a lot of testimonial and testimonial in image form as well as small-poblation studies if you want to. But any redpilled site might work.

I don't think the problem is womanhood or femminity or culture. It is stupidity


Is women not respecting men that make less salary than themselves "stupid"?    Maybe, but it's hardwired into them and that's just the way nature works.


Don't get me wrong. Stupidity is not a women problem but an human one. Males are as stupid as women are.

Stupidity, psychosexual application to everyday life and feminism are related but not one the cause of the other. I even dare to say than the basis of feminism is to fight the patriarchy (legacy of sartre-lover ideology) so, even if feminism fights againts gender inequallity it is not its reason of existence (another movements fought for human rights without belueving in patriarchy)


The problems of "gender wars" are:
a)feminism and the idea of patriarchy, the idea of men oppresing women and not humans oppresing humans. a lot of people who disagrees with feminism wants literally to give genders same rights and freedoms, and that people and the feminism collective are, somehow, in conflict, making the gender war worse.

b)Incels and internet coverage of their impact. For some reason, incels are not even 1% of white males on the internet but somehow, sometimes and for some people is like the incels or the alt right are a impactful and growing problem.

c)gender studies and scientific community walking on eggshells afraid and doing meaningless studios and not addressing the truth. Males commit most crimes, why? males suffer more from crimes, why?. Females are always seen as victims when there is a male-female conflict, why?... a lot of black pills to take here.

A multidisciplinar and selfaware problem is harder to manage and understand that a multi black/white/grey problem. so people are choosing sides in a model that sees this issues as a grey spectrum, like you can split those problems in smaller pieces so you can work on them(you cannot).

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: living_failure]
    #26078543 -

I grow up in a good family and I love them all. My dad worked and my mother spend her time cooking, cleaning and taking cares of her kids (me).
In my opinion my mother was the head of the family.
My mother is a strong woman and she kind of strenghten the whole family. And my lovely dad made it all possible. Maybe the are both the head of the family. As a team.

I think God knows that some men are capable of being the head, and some are not. Yes, the man in is supposed to be the head. But do not forget that he is supposed to give his life to his wife as christ gave his to the World. I do not know many men who offer their life for their wife. To be honest.

People have to find their own ways for their own familys. I am happy as long as "happy familys" exist at all!

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: Meiosis] * 1
    #26079123 -

"the head of the family" would seem to only be a big issue, for some folks.
Mainly folks in what is called the 'nuclear family', in capitalist society,
who also harbor resentment.

The hippies with their communes, in the late '60s, often dispensed with
the nuclear family, finding the whole premise unnatural.
And seemed to enjoy relaxing gender roles and rules.

It would be interesting to know about both the Israeli Kibbutzim, tribal peoples, and hunter gatherers, in this regard.

The Eskimos are a special and interesting case as regards sexual customs.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26079214 -

laughingdog said:
The Eskimos are a special and interesting case as regards sexual customs.


Had to look that up. Damned interesting read that.

https://www.ranker.com/list/love-and-relationships-for-eskimos/melissa-sartore


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26079225 -

laughingdog said:
qman said:
...

No, I pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is a currently a narrative being pushed into Western culture. I also pointed out that we don't see "toxic femininity" in the current environment.


Through most of history, in most places it has been guys, that go war. murdering each other in brutal ways. And most of the governments were run by men, who started the wars. Most sports that have an element of brutality are totally dominated by men. And rape is largely a male crime. That males tend to be violent, in many species, and of relevance here particularly among primates is a documented fact.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=male+chimps+%26+genocide

In many countries, women are very mistreated and victimized and even mutilated--- by men.

Given these facts to get upset because women in the US often want to "have their cake and eat it too" -- you know 'hold the door open for me, but treat me like an equal' kind of thing ', & "tell me i'm attractive, but respect my intellect" kind of thing seems like just normal human everyday hypocrisy. Any oppressed group will exploit whatever advantage it can. Even in education studies show women & girls are as good at math as men, when cultural forces disparaging them are removed. Growing up in a culture that tells you you are not as good as another group, is a subtle but very potent form of oppression and aggression.

So statistically there are good reasons, for the notion that male behavior is more problematic.


But doesn't the male behavior also benefit females in many cases?  Who also benefited when one group goes to war and takes resources from another group?  Yes, females.  Who died for that potential benefit?  Males.

https://prepareforchange.net/2018/06/21/females-are-outperforming-males-on-every-educational-level-and-that-has-staggering-implications-for-the-future-of-our-society/

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

Still an oppressed group?

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26079259 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
qman said:
Yes, when BOTH genders agree that change is needed, but after the change has been made and now it's about taking advantage of the situation in the name of victimization, it's called overkill and that in itself is just as dangerous and destructive.


But the change hasn't been made. Far from it. See laughingdog's post above.

Personally, I think your issue with 'toxic masculinity' is just you yourself playing the victim card.

Humans love to play victim. I get it. I can see why. It's far easier to be one than to resolutely refuse to be one.


What hasn't changed?  There's women in high levels of government, corporations and education. Where is the oppression at this point?

How am I playing a victim here?

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26079268 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
qman said:
Almost every man I knew that got married and had children with a woman that wore that pants in the relationship. 


How does this jive with the claim most women lose sexual interest in their partner as soon as he shows weakness. I'm confused. Again.


Women don't fuck men they don't respect, husbands included.

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Re: Who should be the head of a family? [Re: qman]
    #26079328 -

"But doesn't the male behavior also benefit females in many cases?  Who also benefited when one group goes to war and takes resources from another group?  Yes, females.  Who died for that potential benefit?  Males."

This implies you think most wars are necessary. Seems a very strange position to take.

this you ignored

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=girls+and+math+ability&ia=web

and this you ignored

"the head of the family" would seem to only be a big issue, for some folks.
Mainly folks in what is called the 'nuclear family', in capitalist society,
who also harbor resentment.

The hippies with their communes, in the late '60s, often dispensed with
the nuclear family, finding the whole premise unnatural.
And seemed to enjoy relaxing gender roles and rules.

It would be interesting to know about both the Israeli Kibbutzim, tribal peoples, and hunter gatherers, in this regard.

The Eskimos are a special and interesting case as regards sexual customs."

- - - - - -

And you ignored

all the posts and information on biology.

- - - - -

You are cherry picking what to respond to, And want to paint those who suggest a more spacious view, as victims. It certainly seems that you are the one who feels, or felt at some point in time victimized by women or a woman, as what you state about your wife, salaries, and respect also indicates.

In the event you feel you have won an argument here, with nasty foes who are against you, it still won't solve, what are apparently, very personal issues, at root. In the event you choose to feel that way it most likely, will lock you, into feeling justified, resentful, & unhappy, for even longer.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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