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OfflineSocalJosh
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Grassland Southern California Species ID?
    #26054426 - 06/15/19 05:45 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Hi again from southern California. We have had an especially wet season this year and while near a very well maintained lawn I noticed many dozens of LBMs fruiting in huge numbers.

Habitat:
Southern California near Ventura/Santa Barbara. Found in well maintained grass in the foothills. Growing in large groups. In May, very humid lots of dense fog and light rain in recent weeks.

Gills:
Light tan/cream to dark brown and mottled with maturity. Adnate to adnexed. Close with three tiers. Some with slight notch in the middle.

Stem:
Long thin and sometimes hollow. Brown/tan to white, white mycelial cords at the base. Sometimes stained blue. No veil remnants, slight annular zone. Twisting longitudinal striations.

Cap:
Small, conic to convex. Slightly translucent when wet toward the margin. Slightly striated. Hygrophanous with a dark band around the margin. Sometimes dark brown. Fade to a dark brown when drying. Cracking when drying. 

Spore print color:
Black

Bruising:
base mycelium sometimes bruise bluish

Other information:
My initial ID was for P. Foensecii or maybe some P. Castaneifolius. Possibly a mixed variety.



As always any help is greatly appreciated. There is always room for more input when identifying mushrooms.


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: SocalJosh]
    #26054510 - 06/15/19 06:57 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Panaeolina, might be a mixed collection. Panaeolus cinctulus will have a jet black spore print, which are very useful delineating between the two.


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OfflineSocalJosh
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #26054514 - 06/15/19 07:04 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Panaeolina, might be a mixed collection. Panaeolus cinctulus will have a jet black spore print, which are very useful delineating between the two.




Thank you very much. I thought they could be mixed. Some had a very dark jet black spore print, most had a fainter black spore print. I had assumed it could be from the maturity levels of the individuals but also had thought it was maybe from a mixed variety.

According to Stamets, none of the Panaeolina are poisonous... Any thoughts on this?


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #26054521 - 06/15/19 07:09 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Panaeolus cinctulus only grows on dung or rotting straw if the DNA data is to believed according to Alan Rockerfeller. These could be Panaeolus foenisecii, or one of the other grass dwelling Panaeolus species which might be slightly active, but it would probably need to be looked at under a microscope to determine the exact species. Could we see the spore print please?


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: SocalJosh]
    #26054534 - 06/15/19 07:17 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SocalJosh said:
Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Panaeolina, might be a mixed collection. Panaeolus cinctulus will have a jet black spore print, which are very useful delineating between the two.




Thank you very much. I thought they could be mixed. Some had a very dark jet black spore print, most had a fainter black spore print. I had assumed it could be from the maturity levels of the individuals but also had thought it was maybe from a mixed variety.

According to Stamets, none of the Panaeolina are poisonous... Any thoughts on this?



Panaeolina are really just Panaeolus with a brown spore print, I'm not sure there's really any justification for separating them. There are no toxic Panaeolus species unless you count psychedelic ones to be toxic.


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OfflineSocalJosh
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: Duggstar]
    #26054538 - 06/15/19 07:20 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Duggstar said:
Panaeolus cinctulus only grows on dung or rotting straw if the DNA data is to believed according to Alan Rockerfeller. These could be Panaeolus foenisecii, or one of the other grass dwelling Panaeolus species which might be slightly active, but it would probably need to be looked at under a microscope to determine the exact species. Could we see the spore print please?




I am pretty sure this lawn was fertilized with some sort of manure based fertilizer. I am fairly sure the majority are not P Cintulus unfortunately :mad: if any at all. There were many other species inhabiting this grassland area among them were some Psathyrella and Coprinus as well as P. Papilionaceus. Those were pretty simple to identify, and these were growing in separate clusters away from the other species.

Here is a spore print photo.



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OfflineSocalJosh
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: Duggstar]
    #26054544 - 06/15/19 07:23 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Duggstar said:
[. There are no toxic Panaeolus species unless you count psychedelic ones to be toxic.




Haha thank you for clarifying that for me :ooo:


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: SocalJosh]
    #26054578 - 06/15/19 07:44 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

A couple of the prints definitely look brown to me which would indicate Panaeolus foenisecii. You may have some of the slightly active grass Panaeolus, but I doubt if you have any Panaeolus cinctulus which normally grow in piles of manure and animal bedding or rotting straw. However, even if it is one of those you would need a lot of them, and it would require microscopy to determine the species and some of them haven't even been described to science yet. If you have access to a microscope, it tends to be the ones that have smooth spores that are slightly active.


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OfflineSocalJosh
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Re: Grassland Southern California Species ID? [Re: Duggstar]
    #26054600 - 06/15/19 07:53 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I have a simple USB 500X microscope. I fear its not powerful enough to make a sincere determination of the spores. They seem to be slightly roughened. Lemon shaped. There is a lot of other "sidia" type debris in the print along with the spores. The gills faces themselves are mottled with colors and have the presence of basidia. Thats about all I can tell at 500x.
Thanks you for all your input Duggstar!


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