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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Taoism
    #2604328 - 04/26/04 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is anyone a practioner of taoism? I am hoping to learn and pick up this belief. I would love to hear from someone who has been studying it for a while.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2604768 - 04/26/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I haven't been into it long, but I find it fascinating..

Two books that are very helpful at explaining Taoism in a way anyone can understand:

The Tao Of Pooh
The Te Of Piglet

He relates the concepts of taoism through the characters from Winnie The Pooh, who's personalities happen to be perfect examples of certain Taoist concepts.


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Anonymous

Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2605218 - 04/26/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've learned that Taoism is not something you pick up and believe in the first place, just by its own nature. It's something that you must first experience to learn of its existence. I've witnessed the Tao firsthand in my life and can vouch for its existence. It's an incredible flowing energy that happens when you feel everything falling into place as it should be. It happens when you stop trying to control things in your life and go with the flow, like throwing the paddles out of your boat and just floating down stream. Once you have discovered the Tao, it's unmistakeable. Everything you need will come to you. Everything you want to do will happen effortlessly before your eyes. You will do things you never knew you could, without even trying.

The best way I can describe it is like learning to drive a car. I think everyone here has done that. When you first started driving, you worried about little details and how hard it is and how you will never be a perfect driver. After a while, you get used to driving. And after years of doing it, you don't even pay attention to what you're doing, and yet you never (or "rarely" for some) get into accidents even though you're not paying close attention to what you're doing. Now apply this concept to life in general and you will begin to understand. The subconscious is the key. The Tao flows through your subconscious. The Tao does not flow while you are consciously thinking. This is why it's never there when you're looking for it.

The Tao does not flow when you anticipate. The Tao does not flow when you have expectations. The Tao does not flow when you command it. You must be in the moment and simply allow it to happen.

When the Tao flows, you will know.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2605264 - 04/26/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Check out the Tao Te Ching. You may learn the way, if you can see the way. so they say.


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What?


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Anonymous

Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2605313 - 04/26/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the tao te ching and chuang-tzi are the classic texts. the i-ching also.

i'd recommend reading the tao te ching first. it's probably the simplest. the other texts can be difficult at first.

here is an online translation of the tao te ching (but i have to say a hard copy text is essential):

http://home.san.rr.com/merel/gnl.html#gnl


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Taoism [Re: ]
    #2605827 - 04/27/04 11:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the tao te ching is hands down the most important spiritual book i have read, that is it has effected me more than any other ... that said its very hard to give someone advice on how to achieve understanding of this book... the very first chapter states 'the tao that can be expressed is not the true tao, the tao that can be described is not the eternal tao' which makes things difficult...

heres my advice... get 2 copies of the tao te ching, two different translations, because they are all quite different and only by reading and comparing a few do you get a better idea of the true essence of the book. Read the whole thing in both copies from cover to cover (the book is pretty short) than get a commentary as well (one of your translations prolly has one so read that) then start reading it as a meditation, just opening it to a page eery day and really meditating on the meaning of that page...

also, try studying this book for an hour or two and then dropping shrooms. The mushrooms will take the abstract concepts out of your mind and shove them infront of your eyes...

good luck


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: Taoism [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2605885 - 04/27/04 11:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

fabulous!!! i picked up three books yesturday - hehe 1 was a vegan cookbook ... totally off topic.

the other was the tao te ching. i REALLY like it so far. i have noticed that the tao has been in my life before and just recently has it occured!!

the last one is Hardcore Zen... it looked really interesting. It's Zen in the punk rock belief. Has anyone read that? I am reading it mostly for fun and some insight however - it caught my eye.

just a little tao experience story...

since October of 2003 i have been contacting Burton Snowboards about an internship for the Summer 2004. I waited and kept in constant contact with the guy - he really seemed to like me. He came to NY and did interviews - I thought I was one out of a very small group - well more like 1 out of 50 other people and we are all going for the same 1 person internship.

after the interview - i was heartbroken. finally the guy called back and said he was still interested in me for the position. About a month and a half went by - i called but nothing, no call backs no answers. I gave up... decided it wasn't for me and that i could always try again next year. I even made summer plans and got airline tickets.

well yesturday while watching tv and eating grapes... the phone rang. i figured it was my friend and that she could wait until i called her back. but something said "get that phone..." so i jumped up, ran to my room and picked up my phone...

it was him!! apparently he was very impressed and had setup an appointment for me to talk to the admin. assistant the next day (which is today) at 10am.

this put me in a great mood - the unexpected happened! My chance for this internship was granted back to me!!!!

well today i had the phone interview and was just myself.. she said she was very impressed. now... im learning to not make plans yet or say anything - just drop it. if it's meant to be ... tao will take over.

i have always had the "let it flow" personality... and that's why i feel this is such a great thing for me.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2606068 - 04/27/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

???


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2606160 - 04/27/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The dao (tao) isn't something you can believe in or not believe in.. It's the word we ascribe to well, that thing.. that thing we call.. the dao. You know..


The river metaphor is pretty common, but I've come across it misused lots. Often people believe that the key is to lay back and let the river take you wherever and let the universe do the work. This is a yin relationship to the river. To expand and complete the metaphor, sometimes the river gets turbulent. If you've ever been whitewater rafting you know that when the standing waves build eight feet into the air you don't just want to lie back. You've gotta paddle hard, lean into them, and avoid the whirlpools. This is the flipside of the lazy river daoism, the yang aspect of the boater's relationship with the river. Sometimes you've got to pick your course and go for it with serious effort.

I study what could be called daoist martial arts. To know daoism I believe you've got to have daoist practices. Daoism is a well-rounded way of life. It's never one single thing. A hundred people could follow the dao and every one of them would be just as different as a hundred who didn't. My understanding of daoism comes from people (teachers) mostly, though none of them are daoists. I'm not a daoist either. I've actually never read the dao de jing, but I reckon I oughtta, it's probably really cool.

So anyway, I'm sure you could get a lot out of the tao te ching, intellectually speaking, but without a practice I don't know that you can really internalize the teachings. But don't worry, you don't want to be a daoist anyway.. there's nothing too glamorous about it and seeing as the whole point is you'll never really know what the hell the dao is anyway, calling yourself a daoist is kinda blah. Everyone's a daoist really.

books:

the complete i ching
by alfred huang (the best i ching translation hands down don't bother with the rest)

chronicles of dao
the semi-finctionalized life of guan saihung, a daoist ascetic and martial artist who trained daoism at the end of the old china, in the 30's and such. Fictionalized, but lots of neat inspiring stories.. informative.. read it!
by deng ming dao


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: Taoism [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2606504 - 04/27/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so i can't part take in it - unless i have practice... ok...

and taoism is not glamorous...

this is a joke correct?


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2607760 - 04/27/04 08:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

delyruim. what he means is if you decide pursuit of the tao is your life, you can't get there by just believing in the tao philosophies. there are tons of physical/mental/energetic exercises to increase your ability to flow with the tao. you can't just focus on one aspect.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2607864 - 04/27/04 08:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey man I'm not one to say who can or can't get in on daoism. And daoism isn't.. ah.. glamorous, like scientology.. you aren't going to schmooze it up in hollywood as a daoist whispering sweet nothings into the diamond-encrusted ears of the "celebs"

I hope I'm joking

I guess all I'm saying about the practice is that there are lots of people out there who can talk all about daoism and they can have a strong intellectual understanding of it all, but if they try to apply the principles of "going with the flow" in their lives, they don't know where to begin. This isn't just in daoism, it's everywhere. What I see is a lot of people using passages of the dao de jing as they would sections of the bible..

"Let's see, is it daoist to do this? Hmm if we refer to chapter 45 lines 4-12 we can see that gay marriages AREN'T daoist."

I read the dao de jing today for the first time, and it's great and all, but there are a few things to keep in mind:

1)the dao de jing was not written by lao tzu. Lao Tzu probably never existed. The book is a collection of old Chinese wisdom.

2)There was a time when it was not called daoism. This is a key point. The authors of the dao de jing weren't expounding the intricacies of the belief system one is required to hold in order to become a daoist. The dao de jing is the condensation of otherwise scattered wisdom. When reading, keep this in mind. As I read the dao de jing today, I found this helpful.

3)Daoist myth of the daodejing... you may have heard this elsewhere. Lao Tzu is purported to have been riding a water buffalo out into the wilderness when he was recognized to be an exceptional individual by a border guard and asked to write his wisdom down for the people. So Lao Tzu sat down by the side of the road and scribbled down the daodejing for a few minutes and took off on his water buffalo.

I think this story was probably passed down for a good reason. One thing I get from this story is that we shouldn't put too much stock in the daodejing. I mean, the guy just sat down by the roadside and scribbled it out. The first chapter basically states that the book is kinda worthless.. hmm.. Lao Tzu basically was a bird who took a shit and his shit is now holy and under the microscope.

Another aspect to the story is the water buffalo thing.. Lao Tzu was riding a water buffalo for no good reason, and he's supposed to be the most enlightened sage the known-world at that time ever had. There's something to be learned there.

4)The western culture's "lens"

We can't help but try to understand unknown things through comparing them to things we already know. Before christianity discovered the bomb was better at subdueing the heathens, they used to drop bibles on everyone. The bible was their complete religion. We in the west then believe that to understand another religion we just need to go pick up that religion's bibles and we'll be good. But you know what? The daodejing doesn't teach any of the qi gong or meditative techniques practiced by daoists throughout history.

More than any other religion, daoism and its derivitives (including Zen) require first-hand experience. Daoist ascetics in the temples throughout China practiced the 5 arts: Martial arts, calligraphy, horsemanship, archery, and music (I'm pretty sure those are them). They also practiced extensive health and spiritual qi gong. None of these techniques are described or taught (not that they could be) in the books. It's sad but I'm afraid the methods used to integrate the wisdom of the daodejing into daily life aren't well-distributed.

If you are interested in daoism, by all means read the books, but I'm afraid that we (the world) are missing the core knowledge. We think we've got their bible, but there is no bible.


Edited by Mixomatosis (04/27/04 08:23 PM)


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: Taoism [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2607928 - 04/27/04 08:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

okay well that is something i understand. i just want to learn about it before i decide to put dedication into it. i do meditate however it's probably not a daoist meditation. to me.. meditation is allowing your mind to be completely empty so it can be completely full.

im curious where i can find a taoist instructor. however i might be moving to a new state soon.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2622546 - 04/30/04 06:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is the most interesting translation of the Tao Te Ching I have found.

I just thought somebody might find it interesting to see a translation that tries to put the meaning into modern English rather than the usual effort trying to translate the Chinese.


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Re: Taoism [Re: ToxicMan]
    #2622974 - 04/30/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Its a tricky concept (well not really, but western minds have trouble with it)
The truest Taoists on the planet do not call themselves Taoists :wink:
The word "Taoism" is just a symbol.  The idea behind taoism is timeless, and cannot be captured through symbols...especially the English language.


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OfflineMac_Fergus
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Taoism [Re: Delyrium]
    #2623606 - 05/01/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've read a number of translations of the Tao te Ching, and I highly recommend the Stephen Mitchell translation, published by Harper Perennial. For like 8 bucks, you can get it in a pocket mini-sized edition (complete with commentary) so you can carry it around with you in your back pocket. I read it on the subway on the way to work every morning.... great way to start the day (the book, not the subway)

Aside from being a poet himself, Mitchell is also the translator of most of Rilke's poetry. I think poets make the best translators.


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