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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Some Beginner/basic questions
    #26027464 -

What is the average time from start to finish? colonizing grain until fruiting starts.

What is The Average time and Ideal temp/humidity for the rye grains to colonize?

What is the best temp/humidity and average time it takes substrate to fruit once the grain is mixed in?

Can I keep colonized rye grain refrigerated if I do not need to use it immediately? If so, how long is it good for refrigerated?

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss]
    #26027490 -

1. inoculation to fruiting can take 1-1.5 month

2. Best temps for mycelium are between 70-75°F ~ gas exchange is more important here overrall rather than humidity because your spawn will be hydrated

3. Same as #2 ~ After a cake colonizes and consolidates it can take 2-4 weeks for a flush, and you may get multiple flushes. You want surface humidity as high as possible, relative humidity will be fairly flexible

4.You would want to look into Grain to Agar teks for that, but I'm not too sure on any specifics


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Keep it Secret.

Keep it Safe.

       

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: Roshambastic21]
    #26027556 -

about a month of agar work, a month to colonize jars, 2-3 weeks for fruits after setting tubs.

Room temp, i don't think humidity really matter for jars

room temp, rh only relevant for grow tents and rooms so idk offhand. Tubs are self contained, no measure needed.

probably for short term? but it would make way more sense to save a plate or make a slant for long term storage.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: LtLurker]
    #26086311 -

Once I put the spores into my rye grain bags, what is the best way to store the bags?
Should they be put inside a sterile container?
No need for any humidifier or air circulation, fan etc?

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss]
    #26086345 -

Most of this was already answered.

Don't put spores to grains unless you wanna throw half your shit away.

Room temp. On a shelf.

No.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: LtLurker]
    #26086814 -

I'm curious, why so against spore to grain?


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Keep it Secret.

Keep it Safe.

       

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: Roshambastic21]
    #26087153 -

1qt jar of rye grain.
Inject 1-2cc of spores.
Piece of cake. 97% success rate.


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"Come as you are, as you were.." - Nirvana

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: Sgt.Suckit]
    #26087622 -

Ive used spore syringes direct to grain several times with some major success.
Storing the grain bags inside a grow tent on a shelf is ok?
or should it be put inside a tupperware bin with the lid closed?

its been a while I cant remember some of the details I lost my notes!

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss] * 1
    #26087659 -

Because spores are inherently dirty. Shrooms fruit in open air and always have some ride alongs. Contams take off on grains way better than a brf cake. We also have agar to ensure a clean culture for grains now. So with the available options you can have a:
less than 10% fail rate on syringe>brf cakes
less than 10% fail rate on clean agar>grains
or you can shoot spores straight to grains and toss ~25%-33% of your stuff and the rest will be varying degrees of bacterial, rarely clean.

@myco, they need light and air exchange. Put them on a shelf at room temp. And yea "success" is possible, but it's almost always bacterial. You may get a flush or two, but you won't yield what you would with clean spawn, and you can't really expand with g2g as that well started bacteria will really take off in a fresh expansion jar.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Edited by LtLurker (07/03/19 07:44 AM)

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss]
    #26087671 -

mycopiss said:
its been a while I cant remember some of the details I lost my notes!


Good place to start if you lost your notes. :goodluck:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24420178#24420178

Edited by k5hd2y (07/03/19 07:46 AM)

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: Roshambastic21]
    #26087692 -

Roshambastic21 said:
I'm curious, why so against spore to grain?


Spores are not as bad as this dude makes them out to be, but it is true that spore syringes are always contaminated to some degree. That doesn't mean you can't get a succesful grow from them, but you will bound to have some bacterial infection. The shrooms will still grow and colonize, but slower and yields will be diminished.

If you're unlucky enough to get a serious bacterial infection or a mold in your spawn, you will have to toss it. If you're very unlucky the whole syringe will be bunk.

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: SadTurkey]
    #26087711 -

Half was an exaggeration, but you probably end up with half(or less) of your potential yield per spawn inoculated this way. When I tried it to see for myself with my own syringes & prints that rarely fail for brf, I did have to toss 25-33% without any kind of fruits, rest were shitty compared to my agar & cake stuff. So those later numbers I put up are from my experience with it.

I don't call it success even when they fruit because I've seen what success is with actual clean spawn. Using mss>grains usually results in what I would call salvage more than success. Right now I have a set of agar started jars that have been expanded 6 times and still growing strong; that's the kind of thing you can only do with really clean spawn.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: LtLurker]
    #26087791 -

Spores aren't inherently dirty but are typically grown in dirty environments. Timelines get all wonky when it involves spores to bags of grain because spores can be quick to geminate (2 or 3 days), slow to do so (a month or so), never geminate or geminate alongside several other life forms.

If you've got a properly filtered bag, no container is needed.


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26087820 -

verum subsequentis said:
Spores aren't inherently dirty but are typically grown in dirty environments.


So here's what I'm saying when I say inherently dirty, since you don't seem to like the phrasing. Since most, if not all, vendors/growers are fruiting open air and open air has contams in it; spore prints made from them will nearly always have some ride alongs. It's really hard to have a 100% clean print/syringe without in vitro, so you need to assume there's some amount of contams.

In short I guess; whenever I put spores to agar, there's usually a little something extra on the germ plate. Even if it's just a little bacteria, or late appearing mold.

Thoughts?


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: LtLurker]
    #26087839 -

I'm under the general consensus here with LtLurker on "inherently dirty". I guess the word spore is a little too specific. I would say that the process of putting spores to grains is inherently dirty, to be more clear/specific. If not the open-air fruiting that happens with most mushrooms haven't done it, then likely the spore syringe had a little something carry along too. Also, there's the extra hydration that invites bacteria when using spore solution via syringe. Can it be clean? Yes. How likely is it? Over 50% likely.

When I first moved to grain I was like 'fuck that agar bullshit, seems too complicated' and spent about 4 months fucking up a ton of grains. My failure rates were just below 50% for spores to grain in some way (even if I got fruits, they'd have problems, and I consider that part of the failure rate), and my flushes sucked. Even 1-2 transfers on agar will ensure a more likely even canopy of mushrooms that all flush at about the same time, and you're unlikely to have excess moisture to add to bacterial invasion.

Do I ever put spores to grain any more? Yup! It's my last resort test for shit I can't get to germinate on agar. It sometimes work, but it usually results in a very problematic grow. But I get fruits and I clone/print them and move forward.

I'm not saying don't do spores to grain, but I'm also not recommending it. I'm saying a little bit more work putting spores to agar goes a long way later. Quite a long way.

Also, having been on the shroomery here for a while now I have to say that most people who come here to diagnose a problem put spores to grain.


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My Shoebox Factory Beginner's Tek | Shoebox Assembly Tek | Methodology/teks I use | How I Store Bulk Items

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26087891 -

I completely agree with you both. I knew what you meant by "inherently" but just like to keep things clear. There is easy too much disinformation in this hobby and I like to help not contribute.

Inherent

Quote:
existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.


Spores aren't permanently, essentially or characteristically dirty. The are produced fresh and clean by the fruit body but generally do pick up nasty shit from their environment. That's all I'm trying to say.


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26087923 -

fair enough. I see what you mean. I'm using the wrong word.


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Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: LtLurker]
    #26087937 -

ORRRRRRR maybe verum is being overly pedantic :rofl: I tease.


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My Shoebox Factory Beginner's Tek | Shoebox Assembly Tek | Methodology/teks I use | How I Store Bulk Items

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26087965 -

Possibly ostentatiously pedantic, even


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26092867 -

So as of right now I have Two 4"x12" vents open on the grow tent, same kind of tent sold for weed growing.

Right now just waiting on colonization.

I also leave one of the sides partially unzipped to some fresh air.

I have 4'x8' tent, 1 small 6" fan. Should I run the fan at all during the colonization process?

I also have 2 6" duct fans which I have not installed into the tent yet. Would that be ok during colonization or should I wait til fruiting?

Also what about AGAR? I know this is a more advanced technique.. any good teks which are for beginners?

I am definitely up for trying AGAR on my next attempt if the success rate is higher.

Thanks a ton for the info guys!

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss]
    #26092894 -

So it takes my jars 2-2.5 weeks to colonize. Then I get my first flush in 2 days after. I usually make pf tek jars 18 at a time and get around 3 OZ dry yield.


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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: mycopiss]
    #26092897 -

Decide on an up to date and proven to work method and follow instructions thoroughly.
Skim through the first link in my sig and you'll be good for a while :super:
Fans are not needed for growing magic mushrooms :thumbup:


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Cakes inside Water Tub with optimal Surface Conditions

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Re: Some Beginner/basic questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26093011 -

Check out pastywhyte's no pour tek and bodhi's pour tek. Those are the two go to agar teks. I'd be happy to answer any questions that remain. No pour is fine but I love and recommend pouring your own into proper petris.

Your tent will probably be fine for now but you'll have to dial it in whenever you decide to "fruit", which you can do whenever you want.


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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