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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 3
    #26001022 - 05/19/19 06:40 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

our blood and body does everything it can every moment to keep your blood at 7.4 if it goes above that by even a small bit you'll go into a coma at best or die. We regulate pH by our CO2 concentration your body holds onto or releases more or less co2 to do this. before that would even need to happen your stomach would take care of what you drink. your stomach pH is close to 1 this corresponds to being 107 times as much acidity as neutral 10,000,000 times as many acid molecules aka hydronium ions. drinking something that's say pH of 9 (100x as much hydroxide ions as neutral) would change your stomach pH to around 1.5 if you could instantaneously drink a a half liter volume. even the little stomach acid would completely neutralize it and barely be effected and would also go back to normal nearly as fast as your body compensated for drinking something no human or mammal has ever had to endure for survival. but our bodies are pretty fantastic and even if you throw them a curve ball you sometimes can pull through.

also the TLDR more simple rationale is that there's 0 science arguing alkaline diet or alkaline water is good and there's only pseudoscience arguing for it. Find me credible anything relating to alkaline consumption


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 3
    #26001098 - 05/19/19 07:48 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Alkalinity says nothing about pH in itself. It only refers to the buffer capacity of a solution. When applied to drinking water, regardless of the source, its alkalinity is always extremely limited.
Basicity refers to a >7 pH and tap water tends to be in the range of 7.5-9. While values like 8.8 sound high, they really are not. The absolute number of OH- ions in a pH 8.8 solution is still in the nmol range. Its effect on the acidity of the stomach is virtually zero, even in large amounts, where the dilution of the stomach acid by the volume of the water ingested in fact plays a larger role than the basicity of the water. Beyond the stomach, there is evidently no effect of slightly basic (pH <10) drinks and foodstuffs, nor is there an effect of acidic drinks and foods. The stomach does a pretty good job in regulating its pH unless medication is used that alters this capacity (e.g. proton-pump inhibitors used by those who have a dysfunctional stomach-esophagus valve).

As to the pH of blood; blood is buffered essentially by a bicarbonate buffer that maintains blood pH at 7.35-7.45 regardless of diet or other exogenous factors. Hence, acidity or basicity of foodstuffs does not significantly influence blood pH and therefore, from a health perspective, there is no reason at all to consider such diets. They were introduced IIRC somewhere in the 1950s based on an incomplete understanding of the blood buffering system in relation to diet. Later studies have demonstrated beyond any credible doubt that these diets are not effective in what they purport to do (influence blood pH level).

Notable exceptions are:
* High-acidity drinks such as soft drinks (but coffee is by far not acidic enough to constitute a credible risk) erode enamel and hence form a very real and widespread risk to dental health.
* I can very well imagine that slightly basic coffee has a different flavor profile, particularly if basic water is used to brew it. As suggested above, sodium bicarbonate may be used to make water that is slightly basic for experimentation, but I wouldn't go overboard (keep pH < 9 or 10) in order to prevent the stomach from compensating ultimately resulting in complaints such as heartburn due to periodically overactive proton/H+ generation.
* Some foodstuffs contain acids that are otherwise harmful if consumed in excess; for example, in this season, rhubarb is a popular food in some parts of the world. It contains oxalic acid, which is highly effective in breaking down calcium in the bones and thereby accelerating osteoporosis. Some suggest adding calcium carbonate to rhubarb to counter its harmful effect; while at first glance, this would make sense as the calcium carbonate would 'neutralize' the oxalic acid into oxalate. However, in the low-pH environment of the stomach this will instantly be reverted into oxalic acid and the only potential benefit of the approach is to be sought in the co-ingestion of the calcium. However, it's doubtful that that will effectively counter any bone-dissolving action of the oxalic acid, which has to do with the amount of calcium added and more importantly its bioavailability.

Long story short: if you want basic/>7pH coffee, do it because you want to do a flavor experiment, but don't expect an influence on blood pH or general wellbeing. Any effect in that direction would be psychosomatic/placebo (which in itself may be enough of a reason for some; YMMV).

Quote:

Enkidu said:
For instance soda pop and sugar are acidic but green juice is alkaline.




Sugar is not acidic in itself. Green juice: depends on how you define it, but if you are talking about juice from green-leaf plants and vegetables: they are almost certainly all slightly to moderately acidic.

If you are interested in this, I'd suggest picking up a $20 pH meter on Aliexpress or whatever and run some experiments on your drinks of choice. Also do some reading on how the pH scale works in order to get a feel for magnitudes etc. If you get that down, look into how buffer systems (chemistry) work and why the whole 'alkaline diet' thing can quite easily be recognized as bogus.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 2
    #26001001 - 05/19/19 06:18 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds ridiculous. There's a whole alkalinity pseudoscience fad going around right now too. Humans are not made to drink alkaline things. Our stomach acid instantly neutralizes any alkaline beverage and feedback mechanisms will just make you produce more acid to counter it.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 2
    #26001093 - 05/19/19 07:47 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

There seems to be a correlation as far as health, regardless of if it's just coincidence everything alkaline is far healthier than what's acidic

Same can be said with food



:cringe:

sugar isn't acidic or basic. it's neither.

can you give me some links to where you're getting these ideas from it might make it easier for me to get through to you how dumb this is if I can dismantle the information you think is credible.

lots of people look hot but are not healthy and lots of people on stupid fad diets also go to the gym and work out way harder than the average person and would be in shape regardless.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 2
    #26001135 - 05/19/19 08:11 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not "bent out of shape" I'm just genuinely curious how people fall into these traps. I want to see what you think is compelling IE what compelled you to come to this belief. I want you to trip up and see for yourself that these lists of alkaline foods are bullshit because maybe you didn't know how those lists were derived. I kind of want you to list off some alkaline foods that you think you're eating that are probably not alkaline. wouldn't you rather know that you're living on a foundation of lies or you like to put your fingers in your ears and go nah nah nah ?

as for coffee taste alkaline goes hand in hand with bitterness and soap taste.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: ichugwindex] * 2
    #26002341 - 05/19/19 08:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:

Sorry guys

:shrug:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: gopher] * 1
    #26001048 - 05/19/19 07:07 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

no they're referring to that pH 8.8+ stuff


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #26001125 - 05/19/19 08:04 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I can't think of any alkaline fruits. and almost every veggie I can think of is not alkaline

got examples?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #26001129 - 05/19/19 08:08 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Because those lists are bullshit and I wanted you to pick something off that list that isn't basic so I could tell you that the way they made those lists is by burning food and seeing if the residue it left was acid or basic. Lemons leave a base residue if burnt and appear on some of those lists. Grapes and watermelon appear on those lists. foods that are not alkaline at all.

I couldn't find one list of alkaline foods that wasn't bullshit :shrug:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #26001131 - 05/19/19 08:08 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I would be curious to see how long an alkaline beverage stays that way anyway. CO2 from the air will dissolve and render it neutral in short order would be my guess.

weak solutions of sodium hydroxide get neutralized by air and those are far more alkaline than any alkaline water for drinking



Well, that would depend not only on the pH of the beverage but also its alkalinity (buffer capacity), and that in turn depends on where the basicity comes from. If it's from NaOH or KOH, its buffer capacity will be very low. If also the initial pH is above the pKa of sodium or potassium carbonate (whichever the OH came from), the pH will drift towards the pKa of Na2CO3 (10.33 or so) resp. K2CO3 (10.25 or thereabouts). If the initial pH is below these values, the pH will drift further downward towards the pKa of carbonic acid which is in the vicinity of 5.5 IIRC - but it will never quite get there due to the presence of the sodium and/or potassium which will maintain their buffering capacity (alkalinity).

Keep in mind that all this may take quite some time due to the low availability of CO2 and the rate at which it is absorbed by the solution. In case of making coffee, a cup of coffee of let's say pH 8.0 will have become too cold to drink much sooner than it will turn acidic...
Quote:

Enkidu said:
Well my diet consists of mainly things labeled alkaline

And I'm heeltheir than the last majority of people, especially those fosuming things considered acidic...

So I trust what I'm doing as I can see the effect

I'm 28 and people literally think I'm 19-21 range

That's more than genetics

It's lifestyle :shrug:




Lifestyle is a million factors, dietary choices constitute a portion of those. And that is apart from genetics that you've shoved aside quite quickly.
Believe whatever you want to believe; I don't have to convince you of the impossibility of linking your 'alkaline' diet to your health (whichever aspect(s) of it you're referring to). Any person capable of logical thought will understand that it's impossible to determine that relationship based on your own case. Add to that the existing, validated knowledge that alkaline diets don't really do anything and any critical thinker can make their own choices. If you're happy with your diet, then by all means keep enjoying it.

I'm all ears about the basic/>pH7 'alkaline' coffee btw - like I said, because of the flavor thing. We'll have to agree to disagree on the health aspect and call that discussion a day as far as I'm concerned.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #26001146 - 05/19/19 08:21 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

you cannot change your body's pH with food or drink no matter how much of super acidic or super basic you consume. This is why people who have drank soda their whole life only have to worry about diabetes not osteoporosis

I don't believe many of these spices would be alkaline. again they find out if these foods are alkaline producing by burning them and seeing what kind of residue is left over. which is a method that somehow makes grapes and lemons alkaline foods :crazy:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #26001159 - 05/19/19 08:30 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

according to people who want to sell you something rather than real doctors yes.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: gopher] * 1
    #26007386 - 05/22/19 01:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Regularly adding borax to one's diet doesn't sound like something that should be done without some deeper research into both the potential positive and negative effects. 1/16 tsp would be something like 0.2g of borax, which translates to about 40mg of boric acid. While this is still well below the limits at which significant health issues have been demonstrated in animal studies, it is conceivable that there are negative side effects of a more subtle nature. I'd personally be somewhat hesitant to add it to my coffee, and I'm not particularly squeamish about foods.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Making alkaline coffee
    #26000975 - 05/19/19 05:41 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

So i love coffee

I also try to stay alkaline vs acidic and gave up coffee for a while due to its acid forming nature

I am thinking I want to just go back to drinking coffee but make it alkaline

Should I just grab some PH test strips to test its acidity?

I figure if I brew in some herbs like mullein with the coffee, use a decent coffee like Purroast low acid coffee, add honey, i can get the coffee to a decent alkaline level

What do you think?

Any suggestions for raising alkalinity of coffee? Maybe add cinnamon too, heard cardamom is good for that too https://www.jbbardot.com/add-this-one-alkaline-ingredient-to-your-next-cup-of-coffee-to-alkalize-it-and-mitigate-negative-effects/


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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu]
    #26001000 - 05/19/19 06:17 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Ever tried a cold brewed coffee?

I believe it's less acidic?


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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26001016 - 05/19/19 06:35 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Can you explain why you believe this...?

What about our blood...?

Anyway, just made coffee with mullein and holy basil, added honey and cinnamon

Delicious


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu]
    #26001026 - 05/19/19 06:41 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

maybe add baking soda, some people add a pinch of salt to cut bitterness, maybe baking soda isnt that far fetched


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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: Enkidu]
    #26001028 - 05/19/19 06:43 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Well the coffee goes in your stomach, you're not injecting it intravenously. If you check the science the things we eat don't effect our blood pH.

That brew sounds lush man, pour me a cup I'll be over in just a moment.


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26001037 - 05/19/19 06:54 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

also the TLDR more simple rationale is that there's 0 science arguing alkaline diet or alkaline water is good and there's only pseudoscience arguing for it. Find me credible anything relating to alkaline consumption




when saying alkaline water they are usually refering to the dissolved minerals which is indeed good


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For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

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Re: Making alkaline coffee [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26001079 - 05/19/19 07:41 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Well idk I try to stay on the side of igesting alkaline

For instance soda pop and sugar are acidic but green juice is alkaline.

There seems to be a correlation as far as health, regardless of if it's just coincidence everything alkaline is far healthier than what's acidic

Same can be said with food


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