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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,982
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999311 - 05/18/19 07:45 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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You're always supposed to vent. You want steam in the PC, not air, as there's a massive difference in the results between them.
Quote:
sandman420 said: I unload my bags in the open air from the PC, and move them to a shelf next to my hood before I inoculate in front of a flowhood one at a time. Grabbing one from the shelf next to me as I go. My pc isn't possible to move to a flowhood.
Guys I absolutely 100% promise you that there is no need to wrap your pc with anything for bags. It is simple thermodynamics that the walls of the PC can not get any hotter than the water underneath them, which can not POSSIBLY be any warmer than 250 degrees at 15 psi...Unless you run out of water or the flames lap over the sides really badly. It's just not possible. I have done thousands of bags over 15 years without wrapping anything and with bags in FULL contact of the sides....And I have melted some once or twice...when I ran out of water only, or when I used a CRAZY propane burner.
There is no need to worry about the filter sticking in or out either, it is hydrophobic and also it doesn't stick to itself or the bag in any way whatsoever... Th filter is made from PTFE or woven PP and there is no way it will stick to anything.
What if you go over 15 PSI? Do all bags have the same melting point? Would the foil not help if you accidentally ran it a little dry?
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999313 - 05/18/19 07:45 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Makes sense to me
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: filthyknees]
#25999321 - 05/18/19 07:48 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well my shit is nowhere near up to temp/pressure in 15 mins.
So do u guys think my plates are bad. Is what your saying.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: filthyknees]
#25999325 - 05/18/19 07:50 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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When i did my venting vs not venting test the all American cooker actually did way worse because the AA toggle valves prevent natural venting. The presto weight at least lets some air out during the cycle if you forgot to vent.
The AA cooker barely got above 212F, the atmospheric boiling point of water, without venting.
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999328 - 05/18/19 07:51 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont have a sterilizer. it's a weight.
I honestly think some of my problem is not venting for grain long enough. I pour plates way in advance. If they weren't sterilizing correctly wouldn't I get contaminated plates thst are unused.
Again I'm not saying it considered proper procedure. I'm just saying I'd be getting contaminated plates on my blank piles.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999333 - 05/18/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, the exorbitantly overpriced presto. The sterilizers are the only AAs that make sense to buy imo.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: filthyknees]
#25999338 - 05/18/19 07:53 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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StarletClouds: Bags can be ran well over 20 psi no problem.
All PP grow bags do have the same or very near melting point of 320F.
The foil might prevent the bags from sticking to the sides in the event of running out of water...But then you have much bigger problems. Running gout of water is a good way to ruin a cooker and should be avoided at all costs. It's not really a thing that happens if you are paying attention, because you will notice having to turn the heat up to max to maintain pressure and it will still drop anyway. Only happens when you fuck off.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,501
Loc: where?
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999339 - 05/18/19 07:53 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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wheeeelp..
i started venting when i first got my PC from santa in 2005. it said to do it in the owners manual so i always did just that.
just never with liquids i understand the point and physics behind venting i just question if it is applicable with liquids because...
ive never ever ever ever had a bottle of liquids mold after a pc cycle.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999342 - 05/18/19 07:54 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well mold dies pretty easy above 170F anyway. Your only failure risk is endospores
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: mushboy]
#25999345 - 05/18/19 07:55 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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thats interesting to know mushboy
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999348 - 05/18/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Only sometimes though.
Well put mushman.
I agree its poor practice though.
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Legend21
Legend



Registered: 04/27/18
Posts: 1,148
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999397 - 05/18/19 08:17 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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PEU- I’m guessing these blue tops are ready to harvest?

I’ll try not to take the cluster away with them
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Legend21]
#25999405 - 05/18/19 08:19 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are they squishy?
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Legend21
Legend



Registered: 04/27/18
Posts: 1,148
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yesum]
#25999417 - 05/18/19 08:23 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yesum said: Are they squishy?
Kind of they’re like memory foam they have a bounce to them.
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Yesum
Furry as Fuc



Registered: 11/05/12
Posts: 13,124
Loc: Central Part of Town
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Legend21]
#25999459 - 05/18/19 08:36 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I might wait till the others around it catch up. Or you could pick them now.
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Crispykoot
Jello Wrangler



Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 5,922
Loc:
Last seen: 4 days, 50 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999462 - 05/18/19 08:37 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: When i did my venting vs not venting test the all American cooker actually did way worse because the AA toggle valves prevent natural venting. The presto weight at least lets some air out during the cycle if you forgot to vent.
The AA cooker barely got above 212F, the atmospheric boiling point of water, without venting.
Bod what are your thoughts on the vent tube attached to the stopcock on the 75X? I still have mine on but I make sure it sits at the top of the sterilizer when venting.It seems too restrictive. Have you removed yours?
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Shadowboxing the apocalypse and wandering the land
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Crispykoot]
#25999475 - 05/18/19 08:42 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crispykoot said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: When i did my venting vs not venting test the all American cooker actually did way worse because the AA toggle valves prevent natural venting. The presto weight at least lets some air out during the cycle if you forgot to vent.
The AA cooker barely got above 212F, the atmospheric boiling point of water, without venting.
Bod what are your thoughts on the vent tube attached to the stopcock on the 75X? I still have mine on but I make sure it sits at the top of the sterilizer when venting.It seems too restrictive. Have you removed yours?
I removed mine. it is restrictive. I think it's probably helpful if you use the insert basket since air collects at the bottom and the steam would have a hard time displacing it from an basket insert. but without the basket despite air collecting at the bottom I think in 10m with the boil there's enough turbulence and steam produced to displace all the air. and the maximum registration thermometer I have seems to validate that fact.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,982
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sandman420]
#25999525 - 05/18/19 09:07 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: StarletClouds: Bags can be ran well over 20 psi no problem.
All PP grow bags do have the same or very near melting point of 320F.
The foil might prevent the bags from sticking to the sides in the event of running out of water...But then you have much bigger problems. Running gout of water is a good way to ruin a cooker and should be avoided at all costs. It's not really a thing that happens if you are paying attention, because you will notice having to turn the heat up to max to maintain pressure and it will still drop anyway. Only happens when you fuck off.
Starlet clouds?! That's a new one!
Well, yeah, I know not to run my PC dry. I've definitely wound up with less water than optimal for comfort though, but nowhere near dry.
Here's a post I made detailing older bags showing green on the bottom spots where many people report pinhole compromises. I definitely don't always get a perfect seal on my bag, but with the according fold, mold spores aren't navigating through that shit anyway. I do have temp swings anywhere from 68F - 78F sometimes and bags do form condensation. Pin holes and bags breathing? Any clues?
Quote:
stareatclouds said: Son of a biscuit.
Quote:
Hey, bag experts, I have a question for you. So I'm still new to bags and am slowly increasing my success rate with them. One issue I'm sure is me leaving the bags uninoculated for too long post-sterilization. After I PC for 3 hours on 16-20 PSI, I set them in a tote until I noc. They each get an actual Tyvek sleeve, which stays in until I inoculate in SAB, and often string is tied loosely around it to keep the accordion fold.
I left 5 bags in a tote for a while (more than a week, I'm sure) and just noticed 4 of them have trich. But they're all on the bottom where the bottom of the bag folds in. Nothing at all on top near the opening or anywhere else. The top is still relatively sealed and the string was cut/removed on each already. And I'm sure all 4 were in the same PC run as well.
What's the most likely culprit? The bottom somehow not being getting sterilized properly? Or heat from trivets causing tiny little holes in the bottoms of the bag? I have to feel like the bottom of the bag has to be compromised in some way. No condensation or apparent moisture was obvious down there either (condensation is shown in the pictures because I moved them from 70F room to 55F or something.
Anybody experience this before? Before I shower and do SAB work, I think I'll empty the bags and pour water in to check for any tiny holes.

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AyePlus
Stony Danza



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999541 - 05/18/19 09:12 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can’t seem to get every bag to come out without popping every time. Last run i got 16/18 the one before it was 10/12. I’ve tried putting rags into the airspace with mixed results, 1/2 pint jars full of water, empty half pints, tyvek sleeve, no tyvek sleeve, stepping the temp down at end of cycle.
Feel like I’ve tried everything and I always lose a couple, maybe its because I buy the factory seconds bags? Maybe I’m doing something else wrong, currently running at 15 psi for 3 hours then 10 psi for 1/3 hr and 5 psi for another 15 min before killing the heat.
Would live some pointers/ideas, tired of throwing away perfectly good grain and wasting bags.
I’d say 1/3 cookers run they all come out proper, the other 2/3 I lose 1-2 bags to popping. If I had a couple 41.5qt AA’s I’d probably just run jars but with the amount of grain I run doing that in presto’s is more work than I want to do, even with the failures I get enough done, just hate the waste.
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dmppb
On course


Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 1,043
Loc: universe
Last seen: 2 days, 10 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
#25999557 - 05/18/19 09:18 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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well , it seems everything about venting has been said and it's only logical to vent even with liquids even though they sterilize easy ,
not to ignore your experience mushboy , i'm your fan
thanks for sharing your info dudes ,
also , is there any relation between diluted grain water for medium and wispy weak mycelium ?
my plates looked really good on wheat flour and karo water , but then did another batch with grain water and the mycelium just slowed down so much and went from ropy and rhizo to cloudy and slow s:
is there another reason for this happening ? i'm thinking of buying malt to get serious on my agar formula , just trying to reinforce my agar game , will this help ?
-------------------- ...and when you loose control ; you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
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