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XUL
OTD Janitor
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 28,261
Loc: America
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I disagree , Xul. In order to have insights, knowledge and the feel for a particular culture, one needs to spend time in that culture. Talk and books cannot convey what other countries and people are like. Just because someone has read about the Vietnam War does not mean they have any knowledge of what Vietnamese people think and know. This is a pretty basic point.
To your point, American reparations are a scam.
Nobody has owned a slave, been a slave, or known how it has felt.
To your point, leaders of a country cannot have an opinion about a place unless they have been there.
To your point, you cannot have an opinion about me because you never met me.
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I don't buy it.
You guys are walking on eggshells with your PC.
But that is on you. I'm free.
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TRUMP 2020
Edited by XUL (05/09/19 12:20 PM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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life is good said: Calling people brainwashed is not considerate or anything of the sort. Then you threaten to take action when I take issue with it.
It's not a discussion of any kind and it's only been nasty and I presume headed towards worse.
I never called anyone brainwashed. I said it was a case of awareness and brainwashing. Surely you do not deny that humans can be, and are, brainwashed in this world? Some lack awareness, some have it in droves.
Yes, if you continue to hit the report button when it is completely uncalled for I will take action.
As I said, if your consider every challenge to your arguments 'nasty', 'abusive' or 'hateful', then this is perhaps not a healthy place for you to be. This is a debate oriented forum and if you cannot debate without falling back on 'you're being horrible to me' then you really have no place engaging people here.
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life is good said: Do you think if you grow up in a house full of Chinese people, you might have an idea of what they are like?
No. Because you don't know what cross section of society you have there. It's like saying 'well I know five Chinese people, therefore I know what all Chinese people are like and I know China too'.
It's not really a fair assumption to make is it?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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XUL
OTD Janitor
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 28,261
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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I think his experience sheds light on Chinese culture.
Of course it's not a large sample size, but he isn't a scientist either.
Small contributions are still useful.
The human experience and humanism shouldn't be denied.
Case studies are just as "useless" in terms of sample sizes, but they undoubtedly contribute to much of science, psychology, and sociology.
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TRUMP 2020
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,859
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: XUL] 1
#25981958 - 05/09/19 01:12 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said:
To your point, American reparations are a scam.
Nobody has owned a slave, been a slave, or known how it has felt.
To your point, leaders of a country cannot have an opinion about a place unless they have been there.
To your point, you cannot have an opinion about me because you never met me.
---
I don't buy it.
You guys are walking on eggshells with your PC.
But that is on you. I'm free.
I never said anything about reparations, slavery, or you personally. I think it is provincial that you think you can know a place intimately without having been there. I think your posts are particularly American.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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life is good
Sun and sky and trees
Registered: 07/03/18
Posts: 1,205
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: XUL]
#25981963 - 05/09/19 01:15 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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My best friends have always been from around the world. Malaysia Russia China Japan Indonesia Iran. Without going out for my room I can know all the things that happened. In heaven. Without looking out for my window I can see all the things on earth. That is a quote from daodejing. So speaking of China it's pretty interesting. Very useful. Very pointed for this discussion. Not only China but every culture and tradition have I studied. The China way is very peaceful. Very humble. Basic Chinese people are very hospitable and very generous.
Besides daodejing I studied many other Chinese ones. Besides China I studied there was some of every other tradition as well.
As a child my best friend was from Malaysia. His name was Eugene Kua.
If you would like to know about any culture I can tell you. If you would like to know about any cultural group or people I can share that information with you. If you would like to know what the people of any culture or like I can help you. I've studied them all in great detail.
I can tell you what the proclivities are like for each group. What are Vietnamese people like? What are Muslims like? What are Malaysians like?
There has been said from different places a similar thing. That we all have a universal nature. Humans are the same wherever we go. Asians are both the same and different from us. Koreans are both exactly the same and quite different.
Koreans and Asian's in general has specific characteristics to their culture. People are more quiet and some some places.
Japanese are quite wonderful and interesting. Japanese culture is very fascinating and I'm definitely an expert on it. What can give you the most clear picture of Japanese? Knowing them and speaking to them is of course necessary. It's also important to have a good understanding of human nature.It's mostly important to be patient quiet and to observe.and it's also important and necessary to have intelligence and keen understanding. Without these it's not very possible to understand other humans very well.
One thing that is wonderful is language. Music and culture can share so much information. Music and language can share so much about culture. To understand the language of a culture one can get a very interesting insight into that culture.
To learn Japanese when can get a feeling for Japanese culture. Languages are patterns of thought.those come from thousands upon thousands of years.
I've learned all of these very much in very great detail. These make me part of who I am. Chinese people and Japan people are both part of me. I've been connected to them my entire life.
To wit, every culture is part of my culture. I don't look down on them but I bring them together.
I have had best friends from Sudan Malaysia Russia, every place.
-------------------- I didn't draw this. "Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
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XUL
OTD Janitor
Registered: 03/16/05
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What metric tells us when we know a certain culture?
None that I know of.
His human experience is just as relevant as any case study.
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TRUMP 2020
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: XUL] 2
#25982820 - 05/09/19 09:19 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said: What metric tells us when we know a certain culture?
When we have lived amongst it and made efforts to immerse ourselves in it fully.
Anything else is simply hearsay.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: life is good] 2
#25982945 - 05/09/19 11:06 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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As a veteran of the US Army Infantry I can honestly say fuck no. I love the world. I live about a mile from the Mexican border and lately I like Mexico way more than the US. The US is getting way too nationalistic. The world is my country. I could give a shit less about the opinions of a bunch of asshole politicians too chicken shit to offer their lives up for the bullshit they talk. Patriotism is poison. Love the world.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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XUL
OTD Janitor
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That metric is vague and lacks parameters.
The problem with hate speech (or making up metrics to shut down speech) is that moral arbiters like you will decide what is correct or incorrect to say. This is bad precedent.
As we can see, your precedent already has failed. I am in disagreement with it and so is 'life is good'. There is obviously opposition here.
What if one of us were in charge of making the metric?
Would you still support it?
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TRUMP 2020
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: XUL]
#25983352 - 05/10/19 07:02 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Jokeshopbeard said: Perhaps it is instead life is good and yourself that take offence to my free speech - for a people that pride themselves on having 'freedom of speech' - Americans sure don't take kindly to having anything about their great nation questioned. I have been accused many, many times of hatred, abuse, aggression, being superior, been told to leave, etc, simply for questioning what I have seen and experienced in this 'free' country.
Make some sense of that for me.
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XUL said: The problem with hate speech
Thanks for proving my point.
Why is my right to free speech not recognised? Why must you insist on calling it hate speech?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,856
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: Perhaps it is instead life is good and yourself that take offence to my free speech - for a people that pride themselves on having 'freedom of speech' - Americans sure don't take kindly to having anything about their great nation questioned. I have been accused many, many times of hatred, abuse, aggression, being superior, been told to leave, etc, simply for questioning what I have seen and experienced in this 'free' country.
Make some sense of that for me.
Quote:
XUL said: The problem with hate speech
Why must you insist on calling it hate speech?
Your hate is implicit imo.
If someone says they love their country, then this is what you think..
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Nationalism is rot, IMO.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: cez]
#25983404 - 05/10/19 07:29 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Conversely, I actually say that because I love the world and all the life which resides on it.
A sentiment echoed by many other posters in this thread, if you'd care to look above.
Suffering is rot. Cancer is rot. Drug abuse is rot. I do not hate these things.
If I hate something, I'll say I hate it. I hate no human(s).
Free speech is free speech. What makes it hate?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,856
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According to you, if one loves their country, then they are a nationalist. To be a nationalist is to be hateful. You are isolating those that love their country as hateful.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: cez]
#25983476 - 05/10/19 08:06 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've not once used the word hate in reference to another. Why do you put words in my mouth?
I see nationalism as a mental illness. I am not judging here, as I would not judge anyone. But I do not think that it is healthy.
I am free to say that? Or is my dark and bitter heart still full of hate to you?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,856
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I've not once used the word hate in reference to another. Why do you put words in my mouth?
I see nationalism as a mental illness. I am not judging here, as I would not judge anyone. But I do not think that it is healthy.
I am free to say that? Or is my dark and bitter heart still full of hate to you?
You don’t have to say a word to mean it.
You see nationalism as a mental illness. According to you, if someone loves their country, then they are a nationalist and therefore they have a mental illness. That seems derogatory imo.
I don’t know why you’re asking me that. You’re free to say whatever you want.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: cez]
#25983518 - 05/10/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: You don’t have to say a word to mean it.
You don't have to imply that you know what my intentions and feelings are - because let's face it - you don't.
If you think that my feelings towards mental illness are derogatory, you are sorely mistaken. Many of those that I am closest to and love the most in this life deal with mental illness. It is a part and parcel of my life and of those lives around me. I do not look down upon it. It just is.
I do not like it when I feel that actions arising from mental illness affect me directly - as I have felt in this precise example by being a foreigner living in America - or when I have been on the receiving end of abuse from those I love due to their illness, but I have nothing but compassion in my heart, along with a desire only to help.
At this point, it seems like you're just arguing with me for the sake of argument, which is why I made the joke above.
Perhaps you could at least attempt to support your side of the argument in this case rather than purely attacking my own.
Tell me; what good comes to the world and its inhabitants from nationalism?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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XUL
OTD Janitor
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 28,261
Loc: America
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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In the opposite direction, I see globalists and socialists as the most dangerous threat to America and the world in general.
Still, I don't dehumanize my opponents. On the other hand, you do. You attack their intelligence, character, and so forth.
For anyone watching this.
Notice who the bully is here.
It's not the 'normal' people just talking.
It's the radical progressives who want to have it their way or no way at all.
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TRUMP 2020
Edited by XUL (05/10/19 08:57 AM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Do you love your country? [Re: XUL]
#25983566 - 05/10/19 09:10 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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And calling me a bully is not attacking my character?
A little hypocritical, don't you think?
I do especially like the way you refer to 'globalists and socialists as [being] the most dangerous threat to America' though.
I do not 'want to have it my way'. The world is what it is, I am not out to change it.
I do enjoy a debate and the free flow and exchange of ideas and opinions though.
Life is good and yourself seem incapable of engaging in such discussion without retreating back to a place of 'I'm being bullied/hated on/abused' etc when faced with an opposing opinion.
Once again, I am not judging, but it is quite arresting in its frequency and noticeability.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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cez
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,856
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I didn’t imply what your intentions or feelings were. You think it’s a mental illness to love one’s country. Anyone who thinks differently than you is mentally ill. You’re not a doctor. To call these people mentally ill is your opinion and it’s divisive.
Is someone mentally ill for loving their family, friends, or neighborhood? How about their body? If not, why?
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XUL
OTD Janitor
Registered: 03/16/05
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Loc: America
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I simply believe the other Shroomery user's comments were harmless if not useful.
I happen to agree with him in some areas.
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TRUMP 2020
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