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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: Great Scott]
    #25974432 -

Great Scott said:
They're mad because American (or Civic) Nationalism and White Nationalism have a shared space on the venn diagram of social and political ideology. It drives them crazy and they don't know how to respond to it; especially when there's multi-racial advocacy involved. Sort of like how the SJW progressive liberal BS intersects so well with straight up Soviet-style Communism, which likewise drives the conservatives crazy. It's easier to generalize and react radically than it is to parse these things on a case by case basis. We live in clown town and I can't help but to laugh.


Absolutely, we can't have Hispanics or blacks be nationalistic. They must try and tear down the existing system, not strengthen it.

If that involves destroying the entire nation and turning it into a third world shithole, so be it.

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: qman]
    #25974448 -

I agree with that assessment 100%. The problems of the prison-industrial-complex are multifaceted, but without doubt the war on drugs is one of the most significant exasperating factors.


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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25974451 -

shivas.wisdom said:
The reason I want an impartial judge is because, after participating in several informal debates with you, I am of the opinion that you do not debate honestly; this includes failing to address significant points of my argument, failing to provide an equal level of evidence for your claims, and failure to even make an argument at all.

Past experience has shown that our informal debates end without resolution; with you feeling my arguments were sufficiently addressed, and I feeling otherwise. I want a real resolution this time. If you must view it as changing minds instead of winning the debate, than view it as both of us attempting to change the judges mind.

I am willing to extend the rebuttals for another round or two, but not infinitely - because this is about resolution. After three rounds of rebuttals it is highly likely that we will begin repeating ourselves. Three rounds of rebuttals and then the judge states who made the most convincing argument and why.

I see no reason why you wouldn't agree to this, beyond an unwillingness to formally debate me.


I agree - I think this is the best method.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25974459 -

Let's just hope XUL agrees.


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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25974473 -

Why would you want to debate whether Candace Owens is racist or not? Seems like a waste of time. Just call her an Auntie Ruckus if you feel that's what you're compelled to do, and continue on in your bliss.


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #25974771 -

I think you're missing the point.  Instead of the usual back and forth "nuh uh" which never leads anywhere, they'll make their arguments and a judge (or multiple judges if they choose) will decide who has the better argument.

If you disagree with him on this issue, maybe you can take him on instad of XUL?  :smirk:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25974967 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
LRG said:
She's not indefensible she's just young, unapologetic and idealistic.

I think dismantling the welfare state is a bad idea. I think improving their lives starts with getting people on welfare off welfare. Obviously, there are people who will get the shitty end of the stick in all aspects of life and it is the responsibility of our government to take care of them. I don't agree with dismantling the welfare state. I don't agree with privatized prisons and most convictions of non violent crimes that are filling the prisons.


I think Shivas would agree with everything you just said.  :shrug:

LRG said:
...to really understand you need to see people who live in government housing and ask them how long they've lived like this. And more often than not you'll hear them say their whole lives.


Do you think the poor would have a better chance of succeeding if they didn't have government housing?



Good question. I think they should be motivated to get off welfare and out of government housing. It's not an either or issue to me. Their chances are already low and throwing them onto the streets at this point is worse. Simply giving them housing and a means of survival isn't a solution and many of the ideas that could be used to solve it are put down as "racist." They'd have a better shot at avoiding it if they had better role models, stronger families, and these are thought of as racist ideas... hell even religion can be helpful. And no it's not just poor black people or poor hispanics because poor white people have many of the same problems.

I'm not here to really debate with anyone just converse. Too often people take one side and focus on how they are different when they should be looking at how they are the same.


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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25974986 -

I don't respond when I am at the point of agreeing to disagree. When it comes down to bare bones philosophy, there isn't always a correct answer.

I think the best option would be to designate a thread to our private debate. The reason being that I often am debating 4 people at once and lose track.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL]
    #25974989 -

XUL said:
I don't respond when I am at the point of agreeing to disagree. When it comes down to bare bones philosophy, there isn't always a correct answer.

I think the best option would be to designate a thread to our private debate. The reason being that I often am debating 4 people at once and lose track.


To be honest, a PM debate without any judge seems better.

No crowd, no judge, just us.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL]
    #25975010 -

XUL said:
XUL said:
I don't respond when I am at the point of agreeing to disagree. When it comes down to bare bones philosophy, there isn't always a correct answer.

I think the best option would be to designate a thread to our private debate. The reason being that I often am debating 4 people at once and lose track.


To be honest, a PM debate without any judge seems better.

No crowd, no judge, just us.


One more note:

I want PM so I can say what I want. If you call me a Nazi, I won't have to be restricted like I am here.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25975026 -

XUL said:
I don't respond when I am at the point of agreeing to disagree. When it comes down to bare bones philosophy, there isn't always a correct answer.

I think the best option would be to designate a thread to our private debate. The reason being that I often am debating 4 people at once and lose track.


It would be in a public thread, but only you and I (plus the judge) would have posting rights. Enlil has offered to do this for threads upon request, and afterwards we could open it up for public discussion of the results.



XUL said:
To be honest, a PM debate without any judge seems better.

No crowd, no judge, just us.


No, I want a public debate. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.




XUL said:
One more note:

I want PM so I can say what I want. If you call me a Nazi, I won't have to be restricted like I am here.


Have I called you a nazi before? Still, I am willing to make a concession (should Enlil agree) that the forum rule against ad hominem attacks be dropped for this debate. I think such tactics would do more harm to your argument than good though, so I wouldn't suggest them.



I'm also willing to consider a panel of three judges, instead of just one, if you would prefer.




So, do we have an agreement?


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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25975029 -

No.

You seem to want this to be public.

I want it to be private.

Let's PM debate.

No crowd, no mods, no rules, just us.

You asked me to debate.

I accepted, but not with your rules.

PM me when you want to.

Family values, conservatives values, and leaving welfare towards independence are good -- change my mind.
.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (05/06/19 06:03 AM)

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25975047 -

That wasn't what you said initially:

XUL said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Hey XUL, I challenge you to a debate on Candace Owens, in the style of this thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25913141 because I want you to be forced to honestly debate me.

You can choose the moderator, but I have to agree to them.


No.

I'm not going to defend Candace Owens' life against attacks.

I simply like her ideas. Conservatism, Christianity, and moving away from welfare towards independence.

You can debate me if you would like.

But I am not debating on your terms. We do it open in a thread.


Now it's 'only private'?

I've been more than fair in my concessions to this debate format. It's clear your nebulous terms are merely a stalling tactic, and you don't want to actually debate. That's fine. I guess it means your ideas aren't as strong as you like to pretend.

Who would have thought you would have something in common with liberal college campuses?


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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25975059 -

There is no need to sulk.

We can still debate here and now.

Go on then.

How are family values bad?


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (05/06/19 06:21 AM)

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL]
    #25975097 -

Oh man, I just found this YT channel for something called the Oxford Union. All these British twerps debate issues and shit, and most of them don't have a clue. These are the youth who will lead a nation one day? God help them all.


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:

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Re: White UK liberals protest Candace Owens for being racist [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25975575 -

XUL said:
No.

You seem to want this to be public.

I want it to be private.

Let's PM debate.

No crowd, no mods, no rules, just us.


That was a quick reversal (as Shivas already pointed out).

The reason a judge is necessary is in case one side keeps saying "nuh uh - I reject your facts and offer my make believe".  That type of argument goes nowhere, and a neutral judge is needed to step in and settle it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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