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debord
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Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! 1
#25963753 - 04/30/19 02:54 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hello. Looking for some advice on what I'm doing wrong with my jars. Had some work all the way but lots keep going wrong. Very annoying!
I rinse the grains 4/5 times Leave overnight in water for about 16 hours Rinse again 4/5 times Boil for 10 / 15 minutes Drain and leave out on trays to dry off a little Then jar up and sterilise for about 90 minutes with 30 minutes at full wack in the Pressure Cooker. Then when cool I inject liquid culture 1-2ccs. They are being stored in a cupboard at about 22 degrees.
Some aren't colonising at all!
Here are some pics - some go slimey.

Lots of others go BLUE + GREEN! Sometimes after the jar has colonised a little - the blue moves much faster than the white...


Help and advice would be great please.
Edited by debord (04/30/19 02:56 AM)
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Boogieman47
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25963754 - 04/30/19 03:06 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its probably everything you do ... not trying to be a dick but all you explained is either too excessive or not enough ..
I never rinse my grain .. If you soak dont boil one or the other .. when you pressure cook 90 is minimum that's after you release all the air and build pressure to 5psi before putting on the weight .
And have you tested your LC on agar ? Do you have an sab? Flowhood ?, what do your lids look like ?
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Nikanoru
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47] 1
#25963757 - 04/30/19 03:16 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Up your pressure cooking times to at least 90 minutes at 15psi, I usually do mine for 2 hours..
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47]
#25963769 - 04/30/19 03:30 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said: Its probably everything you do ... not trying to be a dick but all you explained is either too excessive or not enough ..
I never rinse my grain .. If you soak dont boil one or the other .. when you pressure cook 90 is minimum that's after you release all the air and build pressure to 5psi before putting on the weight .
And have you tested your LC on agar ? Do you have an sab? Flowhood ?, what do your lids look like ?
You're not being a dick at all - I'm here to learn! Thank you for taking the time to write and tell me things I should be doing.
So no need to soak - just do a 10 minutes boil, then leave to dry then jar the grains and pressure cook for much longer.
Do I need to leave the drains out to dry off?
Here is a picture of my lids. I need to replace the tape + filter every time don't I?
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47]
#25963770 - 04/30/19 03:32 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said: And have you tested your LC on agar ? Do you have an sab? Flowhood ?, what do your lids look like ?
No to SAB - not sure what that one is and no Flowhood, not even one on the oven and I haven't learnt how to do agar yet either! All this said, I am committed to learning
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LRK
Zn+1=Zn^2+C


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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25963794 - 04/30/19 04:08 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Everything the guys said above.
Also make sure when you add your grains to the jars they are not to wet.
I don't use a SAB nor a flowhood and maybe at most 1/10 jars will contam.
I had some issue in the beginning with a faulty PC and then with grains that was the problem. Try to get a different batch of grains maybe. I've switched to popcorn and it is working great. It is cheaper than any other medium where I live and much easier to get as well.
I will also suggest to test on agar 1st. This is the method I use, I am sure it is not the best but it works for me and I've had great success with it.
Get some agar-agar powder, a potato, nutritional yeast and honey. 1. Cut the potato in thick slices and boil in water 1.5l for 45-60 minutes on low heat. Top up the water when needed. 2. Remove the potatoes and strain if necessary to get all the pieces out. 3. Add 5g of agar per 250ml of water. 4. 1 teaspoon honey and 1 teaspoon nutritional yeast. (I usually just eyeball the amounts ) 5. I add some food colourant as it makes it easier to see the mycelium grow but it is optional. 6. Stir well till everything is dissolved and add liquid to plates. 7. Sterilise in PC for 90 minutes.
Let it cool down and then you can use it afterwards.
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: LRK]
#25963799 - 04/30/19 04:11 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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THANK YOU!
So popcorn instead of rye? Sounds fun!
I was rinsing the grains as I thought that was needed to get rid of any crap in there - I suppose this would be nuked by the pressure cooking anyway?
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LRK
Zn+1=Zn^2+C


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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25963807 - 04/30/19 04:25 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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For the popcorn I rinse it off and put it in a PC for around 40 - 45 minutes to get it hydrated. I release the pressure and test the popcorn. It should be easy to squash the corn with 2 fingers. If it is still hard I put the PC back on for 10-15 minutes and test again. From there it is the same procedure.
If there is excess moisture in the jars after sterilisation I would give the jars a light shake so the moister can get absorbed.
Don't give up stick with the basics and you will succeed.
Edited by LRK (04/30/19 04:26 AM)
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25963812 - 04/30/19 04:41 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Soaking the grains is not needed. Thats outdated info.
I rinse my grains before simmering and after simmering, then let air dry for about 30mins.
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poisoned
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#25963835 - 04/30/19 05:09 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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How are you making your liquid culture? Liquid cultures are hard to get right and almost impossible to make cleanly from a spore solution.
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: poisoned]
#25963843 - 04/30/19 05:23 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you are having problems with rye turning blue I don't recommend popcorn. Popcorn is the nastiest stuff, if you do use it do 2 hour minimum at 15 to 20 psi.
The original pf tek used whole grain rye with vermiculite in the jars to control moisture because it worked. It may be ugly but the spawn doesn't care. Don't soak, don't dry for hours. Try 15 to 30 minute simmer depending on the grain to achieve desired texture. Throw 1/4 inch of vermiculite in the bottom of each jar. Drain and rinse once to remove the sticky starches. Dry in a strainer about 1 minute then load jars. PC and remove and shake immediately when the weight drops. I loaded my last control jar 3 months ago and it's still fresh. (I occasionally load control jars to test that the pressure gauge is still correct)
Edited by Professor X (04/30/19 05:25 AM)
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LRK
Zn+1=Zn^2+C


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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Professor X]
#25963866 - 04/30/19 05:38 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Professor X said: Popcorn is the nastiest stuff
I'm interested in what your reasoning is behind your statement? Have you used it before?
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josevzs
In the court of the Crimson King


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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: poisoned]
#25963870 - 04/30/19 05:44 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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For me it's just you have too many contamination vectors. Probably not enough time in the PC, maybe a bit too wet grain (I think that's normal until you get some experience but it's not a good thing). Using LC without a SAB or Flowhood and neither agar...
You actually don't need to change everything to make things go right, but LC is tricky. Change it for a multispore solution if you are not starting from agar. Rye is perfectly fine, many experienced growers work with it.
The contamination risks will be always there. Each step you take to improve your methods just make it safer. Learning agar would allow you to start from something clean, work inside a SAB would give you a clean place to work in... However you actually CAN have success just with a properly sterilized grain and a multispore solution. Even with a LC if you are so lucky.
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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: josevzs]
#25963887 - 04/30/19 06:05 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Contaminated culture?
Edited by Vibe_Enthusiast (04/30/19 06:06 AM)
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Green_Hands
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
#25963893 - 04/30/19 06:09 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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contaminated lc by the looks of it.
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Nobler Hino
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#25963906 - 04/30/19 06:22 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Soaking the grains is not needed. Thats outdated info.
I rinse my grains before simmering and after simmering, then let air dry for about 30mins.
Don't rinse afterwards, let the steam pull off all the moisture.
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"The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.”
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Apc123
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Green_Hands]
#25963911 - 04/30/19 06:27 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes ur grains are wayy to wet! I would recommend just soaking then drying and pressure cooking. Taking the boil out at first helped me get an eye for things. The way I do it now is I pour boiling water over my grains for 25 to 30min (I would rather have them under hydrated then over hydrated) then strain, dry, load, and PC. I get away with 80 min on my PC. If u find too many of ur grains are bursting this way just try a soak over night in cool water then strain, dry, load, and PC. U will get an eye for it.
Helping to get an eye for it- if u have ANY burst grains at all after u hydrate then let them dry completely! I use a small fan by my strainer and I mix every 10 or 15 min. If your grains are at the piont where some have burst and u don't let them dry all the way then they will continue to cook in the pressure cooker and u will have a lot more burst grains after sterilizing. But if u don't have any burst grains after hydrating u don't have to be AS careful with the drying process. I hope i explained that ok. I still haven't had my coffee
-------------------- The thing about deceit is, you don't know your being deceived...
The only thing I am sure about is that I know nothing - socrates
Believe nothing you hear and half of what u see.
  
Edited by Apc123 (04/30/19 06:29 AM)
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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Apc123]
#25963915 - 04/30/19 06:31 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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The whole point of the simmer is to create heat onto the grain that evaporates off. Leaving a hydrated grain without excess water.
Edited by Vibe_Enthusiast (04/30/19 06:31 AM)
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Bph
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
#25963934 - 04/30/19 07:01 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Id skip that LC. Go agar to grain or even spore to grain has a better shot but not recommend. Unless you got the LC from someone that knows what they are doing/uses a SAB or flowhood its probably no good. Build a box. Run some pasty plates. Follow a tek on whatever grain you use. And good luck!
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Mad Season
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25964014 - 04/30/19 08:06 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
debord said:
Quote:
Boogieman47 said: Its probably everything you do ... not trying to be a dick but all you explained is either too excessive or not enough ..
I never rinse my grain .. If you soak dont boil one or the other .. when you pressure cook 90 is minimum that's after you release all the air and build pressure to 5psi before putting on the weight .
And have you tested your LC on agar ? Do you have an sab? Flowhood ?, what do your lids look like ?
You're not being a dick at all - I'm here to learn! Thank you for taking the time to write and tell me things I should be doing.
So no need to soak - just do a 10 minutes boil, then leave to dry then jar the grains and pressure cook for much longer.
Do I need to leave the drains out to dry off?
Here is a picture of my lids. I need to replace the tape + filter every time don't I?

This filter.. What is it? Has holes in it..
I'd trust polyfil over this filter.
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Boogieman47
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Mad Season]
#25964052 - 04/30/19 08:45 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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and if you are using that home made Injection portion would recommend refraining from using that .. if you want to use a port you can either buy the actually plugs or buy premade lids https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07JGHNNH5/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1 these are injection ports .. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XXM94N5/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=A3RWBUARKB9UWS&psc=1
Those are the kids for liquid cultures but would work the same for grain .. I would just recommend making traditional lids and making a still air box ..
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048771.
Also popcorn isnt a good grain to use .. a few people have chimed in and explained some good procedures.. but I'd stick to what you got for grain or use wheat, oats ect..
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47]
#25964123 - 04/30/19 09:52 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for all this info.
To answer the questions:
LIQUID CULTURE >How are you making your liquid culture? Liquid cultures are hard to get right and almost impossible to make cleanly from a spore solution.
This is made from putting the end of a commercially bought syringe into a sterilised jar of honey water
FILTER >This filter.. What is it? Has holes in it..
It's made from a breathable DIY painting suit. The holes aren't all the way through! Would you suggest something better?
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47]
#25964147 - 04/30/19 10:04 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said:
Those are the kids for liquid cultures but would work the same for grain .. I would just recommend making traditional lids and making a still air box ..
Are "traditional" lids what I'm using or are plugs traditional please?
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Boogieman47
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25964200 - 04/30/19 10:48 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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1/4" holes with poly stuffed in the hole tight or an sfd like I have here ...
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Boogieman47]
#25964214 - 04/30/19 10:54 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
debord said: Thanks for all this info.
To answer the questions:
LIQUID CULTURE >How are you making your liquid culture? Liquid cultures are hard to get right and almost impossible to make cleanly from a spore solution.
This is made from putting the end of a commercially bought syringe into a sterilised jar of honey water
Yeah... LC is considered more advanced than agar for sure, simply because it's best to inoculate it with a clean agar wedge, then test it with agar again to see if it's clean. It's for this reason that LC is frowned upon for beginners.
Learn to agar before you play with LC. It will save your future grows to always know you're starting with 100% clean inoculant.
Quote:
debord said: FILTER >This filter.. What is it? Has holes in it..
It's made from a breathable DIY painting suit. The holes aren't all the way through! Would you suggest something better?
Quote:
Boogieman47 said: 1/4" holes with poly stuffed in the hole tight or an sfd like I have here ...
 There's also Bod's easy af polyfil lid tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24125953
found in his links list, stickied at the top of the mush cult forums https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021
Also, if you don't have one, make a SAB https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23990888#23990888
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newtomyc
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25964224 - 04/30/19 11:06 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
debord said:
Quote:
Boogieman47 said: And have you tested your LC on agar ? Do you have an sab? Flowhood ?, what do your lids look like ?
No to SAB - not sure what that one is and no Flowhood, not even one on the oven and I haven't learnt how to do agar yet either! All this said, I am committed to learning
That might be a lot of you problems. Have to have clean myc inorder to have clean spawn.
SAB is easy to make and use!
-------------------- JJ
Draw unto others as they have been drawn to you.... WSP
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debord
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: Mad Season]
#25964231 - 04/30/19 11:11 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow - so fully just a hole stuffed with polyfil and then inoculated in the box!
And a new thing to learn - THE AGAR!
Thanks guys
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thisbliss
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Re: Jars keep failing - It's driving me BONKERS! [Re: debord]
#25964369 - 04/30/19 01:00 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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Micropore tape is also handy for filter.
Agar is actually not as daunting as it first sounds I'm a noob and have had decent agar work. I just started with pre mixed agar packet off eBay - just add water, so I knew I couldn't balls it up. Ill mix up my own in due time. Simple SAB made. First few transfers are nervy but once you get a procedure down I actually like doing it now!!
I'm at the stage of trying to get a decent grain Tek established playing around with cooking times. I'd say you're near there a few tweaks with moisture level and you should be set. Good luck!
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