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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Libertarianism and the Great Depression
    #2595972 - 04/23/04 09:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

As I was being taught in school that the Great Depression was caused mainly due to the Laissez-Faire approach of the government prior to the depression and was solved mainly via Government intervention in the Hoover and Roosevelt eras, it dawned on me there might just be more to it than that. Seeying as I had no facts to bring up to my professor at the time in opposition, I set about to see if there were any contrary oppinions to the Keynesian theories and solutions. Little to my surprise, I came across numerous counter-arguments proposing that rather than Laissez-Faire causing the depression, it was acts of government(specifically those of the Federal Reserve) that led to the stock market crash, and ensuing depression. I have not had the opportunity to study either the Keynesian arguments or the Rothbard/Australian Theory in depth so I cannot in good conscious know which of these is true at this point.

I've searched the forum archives and have seen several posts regarding this same topic. Unfortunately, there was no real in depth explanation and debate in those I saw. I'm hoping some people here can help me and maybe some others out who haven't had the opportunity to read into the theories in depth, and to give us a detailed but comprehendable explanation as to why either of the arguments is valid. I plan to read into both of these on my own time when I get the chance regardless, but I figure having some insight before I read some extremely comprehensive work would be beneficial. Thanks.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2595988 - 04/23/04 09:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think what your teacher meant was that it was caused by irresponsible or dishonest business practices. In a true Laissez-Faire economy, such practices would still be illegal. Laissez-Faire doesn't mean letting business get away with murder.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: silversoul7]
    #2595997 - 04/23/04 09:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Laissez-Faire doesn't mean letting business get away with murder.

blasphemy!

:wink:


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: ]
    #2596060 - 04/23/04 09:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Austrian.

www.mises.org




Honest mistake! I actually did check out and bookmark mises. I also acquired Americas Great Depression by Rothbard...unfortunately time doesn't permit me to really do some research right now.

Agreed Silversoul. I should have stressed more that my teacher made no mention that government in any way contributed to the depressions cause and that without its assistance the depression might have been prolonged. Checked over some old posts, looks like Evolving has good knowledge of the libertarian point of view so hopefully he can help out if he gets a chance....(please!)


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2596221 - 04/23/04 10:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I asked this same question to an economics professor (who also had a phd in politics) and he said that around 95% of economists believe that it was due to a lack of governmental regulation of the market.  Obviously that leaves %5 who disagree, so its not an absolute certainty, but it is pretty much a consensus.  As with anything that is without complete certainty, you will find arguments for both sides if you look for them.  I mean there still remains the occasional person who argues that global warming isnt happening :wink:.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Tao]
    #2596232 - 04/23/04 10:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If it was due to a lack of government regulation, I wonder if that means that the whole world practiced Laissez-Faire economics back then, as the Great Depression was a worldwide event, not just an American one.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: silversoul7]
    #2596903 - 04/24/04 01:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Or simply that a a massive crash in America has influence on the world economy, as it tends to have.

But certainly business had far more of a free hand in those days. To get us out of the catastrophe business led us into Roosevelt had to introduce socialist policies like the new deal.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Xlea321]
    #2597010 - 04/24/04 02:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
To get us out of the catastrophe business led us into Roosevelt had to introduce socialist policies like the new deal.



I happen to believe the New Deal extended the great depression. I'll try and post some data to support my belief later because I have to sleep now.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: z@z.com]
    #2597016 - 04/24/04 02:33 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

But it didn't CAUSE it.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Xlea321]
    #2597061 - 04/24/04 02:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
But it didn't CAUSE it.



It couldn't have. It came after the depression started (the new deal that is not socialist policies).


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: z@z.com]
    #2597065 - 04/24/04 02:53 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Xlea321]
    #2598929 - 04/24/04 10:09 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The New Deal is a disaster we haven't begun to pay for. The inevitable collapse of the Social Security and Medicare Ponzi schemes will fall on the heads of those who are in college now. You fools will learn to despise FDR soon enough


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2598957 - 04/24/04 10:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm in college and I've already learned to despise FDR.

not to mention the old geezers that steal my money so they can vote against my agendas in record numbers.

Have you ever read any Bruce Sterling? He wrote this one book about a grim and gritty future world where the elderly have all the power and they enslave young people so they can steal their organs and live well. Not very far from reality, I'd say.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2598978 - 04/24/04 10:34 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What's your blood type. PM me.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2599012 - 04/24/04 10:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

While I'm sure the new deal has us pretty fucked in the future, my question is did it along with Hoovers intervention stretch out the great depression, and if so how?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlined33p
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Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2602662 - 04/25/04 11:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
As I was being taught in school that the Great Depression was caused mainly due to the Laissez-Faire approach of the government prior to the depression and was solved mainly via Government intervention in the Hoover and Roosevelt eras




What university do you attend? I would like to know


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: d33p]
    #2602701 - 04/25/04 11:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Senior year of high school, sorry to dissapoint.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2602726 - 04/25/04 11:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

One of the things you tend to learn in college is that everything you learned in High School is bullshit.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: silversoul7]
    #2602737 - 04/25/04 11:50 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Was pretty sure this particular thing was bullshit, which is why I brought it here.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Libertarianism and the Great Depression [Re: silversoul7]
    #2603116 - 04/26/04 01:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
One of the things you tend to learn in college is that everything you learned in High School is bullshit.



As soon as you get out of college you learn that everything you learned in college is bullshit.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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