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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Registered: 11/29/18
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Flipping shortly after inoculation
    #25940642 - 04/17/19 09:15 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I did lots of jars today over a period of several hours all inside a custom container hood with glove (attached) holes.

I decided to go ahead flip the jars when I took them out of the hood so they would already be flipped with the least amount of contamination having gone into the holes and settling on top of the verm layer, moving your jar around too much can move your verm around and let germs get in past the layer and that is the problem I had previously with contamination.

So my question is, since I flipped them so early, 1-3 hours after they were inoculated, is it possible the spores leaked down into the verm layer? This is just a paranoid thought I had later in the day and logically think it would not really happen. You never see colonization start at the bottom of a jar cuz the spores leaked down. This is considering the substrate was even and had the right amount of water, enough where it could probably absorb some more. Also Note the Holes were taped after inoculation

I just thought this would be a good thing to consider.


Edited by cbeveridge3 (04/17/19 09:20 PM)

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3] * 1
    #25940649 - 04/17/19 09:18 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

no tek says flip the jars. why did you flip the jars?? :yuno:

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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: mushboy]
    #25940652 - 04/17/19 09:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Ha for real that’s probably going to cause more problems


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Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: mushboy]
    #25940656 - 04/17/19 09:21 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Is it bad? Should they be flipped back? The jars are taped. There is lots of discussion here about flipping jars a couple weeks in and also removing tape.

Is it because of contamination or the risk the spores will leak down?

Everything was done super sterile so there should be minimal contaminants on the top of the verm layer.

Edited by cbeveridge3 (04/17/19 09:33 PM)

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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3] * 1
    #25940703 - 04/17/19 10:04 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

You should never need to flip the jars Iv never heard of anyone doing that. You also shouldn’t have tape on your jars. I feel like if u flip it it’s going to cause the verm to loosen up and probably let contams in. Look at some of the teks on here, sounds like you’ve been fed some bad info:shrug:


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How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: SFS96]
    #25940716 - 04/17/19 10:12 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

No Flipping jars is def part of certain techniques. It is to prevent the verm from falling down and exposing the substrate through the holes. That is why I got contaim in the first place.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7426034
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7426034

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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: SFS96]
    #25940717 - 04/17/19 10:13 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Take the gloves off your box(not a hood). Glove boxes work against you, you want a SAB.

Tape and flipping are things first timer's stumble across or attempt. Both work against you.

Tape stifles airflow. There's no benefit to having it.

Flipping encourages condensation to run to the dry verm, wetting it and causing it to fail as a filter. You're potentially stifling the air by blocking those holes with the surface you're putting the jar on. There's no benefit to flipping.

If you have trouble with your verm layer being too loose, add more dry verm when you make.


e/ Your link is not a tek, it's another first timer thinking it's gonna help. Posted 11 years ago by a guy that was around for a month at the time. The op even calls it a failure farther down. He's also using an incubator to maintain mid 80's, another bad idea.

Edited by LtLurker (04/17/19 10:17 PM)

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: LtLurker]
    #25940728 - 04/17/19 10:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

The first time I didn't use tape, and I had contam come in the holes and get through the verm. The cake gets eaten and the verm shrinks down, moving it around. This would not happen if it is flipped it seems. I will take the tape of after a couple weeks to get air flow. I am just trying to do the best I can to prevent contam.

There is lots of support for flipping on this forum. Although I guess it could be bad support.


Now I reed more it seems you are right. It is fine to go ahead and flip them back over?

Edited by cbeveridge3 (04/17/19 10:25 PM)

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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25940733 - 04/17/19 10:30 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah Lurker is right, take a look at how old these post are before u start trying this stuff, if it’s more than 5 or 6 years old there’s probably a better way to do it. Show me a new thread that supports flipping? Do what you want but tape and flipping is pointless and has zero benefits. Take the tape off. The mycelium needs to breath, your just going to slow it down...


--------------------
How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25940736 - 04/17/19 10:32 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

That was not the cause of your contam most likely. Verm falls in my jars all the time and they don't all contam out. Either the layer was insufficient/too loose and failed at the start, or the jar was already contaminated by the syringe/bad sterile tek and you just didn't see the signs until that time.

There's not support for flipping when you look closer. It's nearly all newbs thinking it gives some benefit or other based on reading from some bad source, and "best cases" have some of them crediting any success to the flip. No one with lengthy BRF jar experience advocate for flipping.

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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: LtLurker]
    #25940740 - 04/17/19 10:35 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Here’s the right way to do it, follow this to the T.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086


--------------------
How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25940746 - 04/17/19 10:40 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cbeveridge3 said:
It is fine to go ahead and flip them back over?



Absolutely. Hopefully the verm doesn't get too mixed from the flipping back and forth.

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: LtLurker]
    #25940758 - 04/17/19 10:48 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I assumed that the verm falling is a cause of the infection because that infection took 2.5 weeks to be visible and it is right under the verm. Prolly came from the syringe needle i suppose.

Although I was moving the jar around a lot when observing, not thinking about all the verm that was moving around. That was prolly it, Got to keep the verm from moving at all!

Edited by cbeveridge3 (04/17/19 10:55 PM)

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OfflineSFS96
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25940768 - 04/17/19 11:01 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Some contamination is normal when you do BRF Jars because your inoculating them directly with a spore syringe. Spores are not clean, there’s going to carry along contams that may or may not mess up your grow. That’s why people use agar so you can isolate the good mycelium from any contamination. Your bound to have some contams occasionally when using strait spores.


--------------------
How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: SFS96]
    #25940774 - 04/17/19 11:09 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:
After about a year and a half now, i still have to toss roughly 1/10 brf jars. And that's with taking my own prints and making syringes as cleanly as I can.

A little of everything is a factor, it's going to take some practice to really get things smooth. Don't get down and just be gentle with your jars, you'll get through it bud.

Oh and don't forget to modify that glove box into a SAB, that's gonna help to. Glove boxes are actually more turbulent because it'll pull air through tiny gaps at greater force than a SAB whenever you move.

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: LtLurker]
    #25940777 - 04/17/19 11:12 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks!!

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Offlinecbeveridge3
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25946432 - 04/20/19 08:43 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Just as a follow up, what about breathable micro-pore tape? I just want to take any precaution I can. That being preventing anything from settling on top of the verm layer which might fall down the side a little or be exposed due to tipping jars.

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OfflineLeon Sabanna
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: SFS96]
    #25946669 - 04/21/19 12:19 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SFS96 said:
Here’s the right way to do it, follow this to the T.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086



SFS96 gave you the best advice and link any cake cultivator could ever ask for.


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Offlinepickle jar pete
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: cbeveridge3]
    #25946671 - 04/21/19 12:21 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Most likely it is your inoculation process.  Are you flame sterilizing before each jar and thoroughly alcohol sterilizing the needle between ports?  I wipe the top of the jar off with an alcohol soaked napkin before injecting the ports and put the tinfoil back on my jars after inoculation.


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“I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.” ― Edgar Allan Poe

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InvisibleXnMe
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Re: Flipping shortly after inoculation [Re: pickle jar pete]
    #25946688 - 04/21/19 12:38 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Micro pore tape is fine for a added barrier


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