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InvisibleChRnZN
CDLXXIII

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 4,925
The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships * 1
    #25934874 - 04/14/19 06:40 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:


As long as I think I 'should' do it, I'll resist it, even if I want very much to do it.

Marshall Rosenberg




If someone tells you that you should do something, they create a taboo that works against their own interests. It goes against the sense of play inherent in life and replaces it with something dull and monotonous. Similarly in relationships a partner who tells their partner they should do something is setting up a fortress around their needs, making it very hard for them to be met. Instead of using this kind of communication, someone's partner who has a need that is not being met could simply and naturally state how they feel and an explicit need that could be fulfilled without stepping on anyone's toes.

Does anyone have a real life example of this kind of problem / solution they would like to share? I am interested in this zen kind of mode of thinking and would like to explore it more if anyone else is interested.


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: ChRnZN]
    #25935104 - 04/14/19 08:59 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

You should give me some real world examples


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 25,689
Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #25935335 - 04/15/19 12:41 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

>Does anyone have a real life example of this kind of problem / solution they would like to share?
Solution: when someone says 'should', interpret it as 'you could', 'I would propose', 'consider doing it this way', 'in my opinion it would make sense to' and other variants along similar lines.

Stepping on toes takes at least two people. One person to do the stepping, and another one to maneuver their toes in a position to be stepped onto.


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InvisibleJewstress
Jewstress
I'm a teapot

Registered: 03/21/19
Posts: 921
Loc: everywhere.
Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: koraks]
    #25936901 - 04/15/19 07:37 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Ok, my baby daddy and I were hanging out for like the third time and I was angry and freaking out about something in the car before we left for the bar...

Baby dad: "You should relax"
Me: "DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO"


He literally did not intend to do that at all... but because of the context and the current situation at hand, bam. I resisted.

I don't listen to no one, but me.


--------------------
growth.


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InvisiblePecheur
sinner and soulful savage
Female

Registered: 07/05/18
Posts: 319
Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Jewstress] * 1
    #25937110 - 04/15/19 09:49 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

You can lead people to the same conclusion with a bit of tact.  Being told what to do or what you should do can sound condescending and belittle your partner.

Instead of saying you should just do “x” - you say “what if you did “y”- do you think that would alleviate (insert friction or static creating event here)?

Instead of being like Babe you should quit your shitty Fucking job- your boss is shit and you always come home mad.  You say, “what if you left this job for something healthier and more fulfilling babe!?  You deserve to be appreciated for your hard work, especially with all the long hours and I hate to see you burnt out.  Maybe the new firm down the block has an opening, that’d be lovely?

Using conversation built around phrases like what if we, how would this work, how would this make you feel, and could this help- alleviate the aggressive and condescending connotations of haste advice while still allowing you to voice your idea and guide your partner to the area of concern and the solution you are trying to convey.  By asking their opinion and acknowledging their concerns/emotions about the problem at hand you can not only fulfill their social bids in a healthy manner but it allows you to give your partner positive affirmations that can strengthen your relationship even when you may have a high tension issue at hand.    Assertive doesn’t have to be demanding, and demeaning.  Sometimes we all just need to check the delivery on our intent.


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OfflineIcon
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Pecheur] * 1
    #25937497 - 04/16/19 05:23 AM (2 months, 2 days ago)

My romantic friend has a love/hate relationship with weed and me :wink:

Our relationship has been kind of stalling lately around these smoke sessions. I'm a daily stoner and just got some legendary herb that I knew would taste and feel incredible through a freshly cleaned volcano vape. I took a day off smoking to clean the parts and get everything excellent for a smoke sesh with her later.

My text message was "Ohh shit I just cleaned the vape and it tastes soo good! Lmk if you wanna toke today :smile: you gotta try it".

Any other time we've hung out it was through a more open invitation, like "hey would you like to smoke?" I noticed immediately that this invitation felt more forced. Even though I didn't say "should", I think "you gotta try it" had the same effect. Not only did she not accept the invitation, which was unusual, but she declared a hiatus from smoking. Total backfire lol.

I realized it implied a sort of neediness on my part and fear of her denial. We've already talked about those feelings though, or rather the differences between ours.


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InvisibleChRnZN
CDLXXIII

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 4,925
Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Icon] * 1
    #25937505 - 04/16/19 05:32 AM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Thanks for your additions everyone. Very thought-provoking. :strokebeard:

edit: to follow up...

It's good to see that people are trying to empathize with their partners/friends. To quote Rosenberg again, it helps to find "the need behind the no," in other words, the reason why the other person is not getting their needs met. I think it has to do with how they are feeling and what is "alive in them" at the time of their rejection that leads to feelings of self loathing. Once a person can get to the bottom of those feelings it is possible to move past them and return to that eternal moment of play that defines the fun of living.


Edited by ChRnZN (04/16/19 05:49 AM)


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: ChRnZN]
    #25944354 - 04/19/19 06:53 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Oh I'll tell you a real. Life example.

I'm a freelancer who was pulled into a job I never chose. As a sort of aprrentice of sorts but on basically slave wages a d ended up I. A skilled job but at bwr ly living wage rates.

Made to think I'm lucky earni g a decent wage for my then young self workk g 20 days a month.

With constant chats with th commen phrase (oh yiu should be doing this that etc.

I'm possibly autistic. Among other mental health issues.

Guesses on if I followed. All those. You should be advices...


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: ChRnZN]
    #25944495 - 04/19/19 08:34 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

"Should" is often interpreted as demanding so a healthier way to communicate is to tell people what you want. "I would like it if you ___ because ___." Or the word "need" if the situation requires it. I believe this is part of the core concepts of Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication Program. It's been 5 years since I read the book. To talk about your needs, not what the other person should do. Use the word "I". It's a higher level of intimacy.   

Tangentially related, reacting with stress or anger due to feeling obligated is common in many walks of life. This reaction is often called demand resistance. There are many interesting articles online. Demand resistance also can play a central role in self-sabotage and procrastination, when you know you "should" do something, but feel strong internal resistance to it.   

Demand resistance can be defined as an unconscious chronic negative response to demands, real or perceived, internal or external.

Some folks strongly resist all authority. Some people hate the police so much they want to kill cops. Some employees passionately push back when assigned work. You know, the guy who has a million excuses for not doing his job. I had a coworker once who would become so angry when she was given tasks to do, the boss got tired of her toxic reaction and stopped giving her work. For 2 years she did almost nothing. Seriously.......well, I kinda drifted off topic there


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InvisibleTulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 4,656
Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: ChRnZN] * 1
    #25944713 - 04/19/19 10:17 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

"Should", and linguistic equivalents, is quite possibly the most abhorrent and disgusting word in language.  It creates an imposition and a guise of control or superiority.


We are all free, wild animals, despite being trained into forgetting that.  For better or worse, mental/physical capacity, etc....no one is intrinsically allowed control over another.  Lines tend to be drawn when it comes to hurting someone/thing outside of one's self, but that response is mostly logical.


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Anonymous #1

Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Tulipslave]
    #25947096 - 04/21/19 08:43 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I've found much more success in getting my partner to do what I want by explaining my feelings about situations, rather than telling them directly what I want them to do. It sounds messed up and like game playing, as I'm generally quite a direct person, but it's just a different method of that I guess.

An example from the real world: I was really bothered by the pictures of my partners former spouse, & the spouses' things all over the place. When I told them directly they shouldn't hold onto that shit or to throw whatever out, they would get defensive/mad. When I explained how seeing that stuff made me FEEL, they got it & removed the items that bothered me & even apologized. Telling people what they "should" do feels like an insult/attack. Provide them with needed info and let them make their own decisions.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeardM
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25947418 - 04/21/19 11:39 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
"Should", and linguistic equivalents, is quite possibly the most abhorrent and disgusting word in language.



Completely agree. Should, IMO, is a suffering word. It denies things as they are - the opposite of acceptance - and a sure fire way to, however subtly, disturb ones (or others) peace.


Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
I've found much more success in getting my partner to do what I want by explaining my feelings about situations, rather than telling them directly what I want them to do. It sounds messed up and like game playing, as I'm generally quite a direct person, but it's just a different method of that I guess.



This is healthy relationship 101 stuff. It's really important when communicating IMO. If not expressed as 'I feel' then comments about a partners life or behaviour can come off as accusatory and critical and are often met with a wall or resistance.

What a shame we're never formally taught about how best to communicate and relate to others. So easy to be bad at it - it's taken me years of focus and study just to get proficient - and I've still got so far to go (I've got some great role models).


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineDoneKildatReason
Chemical in the body
Male


Registered: 02/25/05
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Re: The Use Of The Word Should In Relationships [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25955788 - 04/25/19 10:46 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

"Babe you've got me and these kids here waiting for you to "get back from the store", you should be at home instead of hustling up money for pills by giving rides for other's drugs, smoking tweek , and going to the casino.  This shits getting out of hand, its more days than not now, and we've slowly gotten where we are today.... And it is not okay."

"Fuck you!"

Or-

"Babe imagine how much better we'd all feel if you'd be home more often, I know it makes you feel bad.. You cry.... and it makes me feel.... Sad.  Angry.  I really think we can get back to finding happiness together if you were to look at some of the things happening.... I know you're a good person and a great mom and are my lover for almost 20 years, but this shit has seemed to take a hold and I have noticed changes I can't understand.... Sometimes I sound judgemental or upset, but that is out of frustration and honestly isn't out of line considering what the complaints are about.  My true feeling is that I love you so much, and don't want to see this get worse.. And if it even stays the same, I'm worried bad things could happen....."

"Fuck YOU!"

So then....
.... Sometimes, if you have to tell someone they should not do something that they already ought know better than to do in the first place, and they are dead set or otherwise compelled by whatever need they have to do whatever it is they shouldn't be doing, then there is no right way to say it sometimes.... With certain things anyway. I don't know your examples.

I suppose the point is valid though, that the word "should" is not a good choice to use when regarding advice of someone's choices.  But sometimes, there is nothing to be said..


--------------------
This was an experiment.


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