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OfflineFrog
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Any time is a good time to lie!
    #2593478 - 04/23/04 02:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I know we've had this discussion before, but I don't remember where it is, so I'm going to post a specific question, to cut to the chase:

Scenario:

You work mostly with people of the opposite sex. So if you want to do any activities, unrelated to work, with your co-workers, it will probably be with people of the opposite sex.

Your significant other ("SO") doesn't like it when you do things with a member of the opposite sex, even though he/she knows that you're not attracted to anyone but him/her.

Do you go out with the opposite sex and tell the truth? Do you lie and say you went out with someone of the same sex? Do you break up with your SO because he/she is too insecure?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593495 - 04/23/04 02:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

And, btw, I already know what Swami is going to say:

"Never lie!"


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593496 - 04/23/04 02:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I would just tell the truth to him, and if he can not handle it, it's not meant to be.


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Offlinefaelr
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593506 - 04/23/04 02:57 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

insecurity is a biatch! and it really sucks if both parties are insecure. i just went through one of these relatioships for the last year and from my experience with this, the story ends up the same. the relationship is dead when the trust is gone. analogy: a person who was in critical condition just went into acoma, you love the person a won't let them go. so, this person is stuck to an i.v. line until you've had enough of staring at them in pity.
i had to make the conscious decision to do the right thing for both.
by the way, it was me with the insecurity before it was her.


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where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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Offlinefaelr
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2593509 - 04/23/04 02:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

2Experimental said:
I would just tell the truth to him, and if he can not handle it, it's not meant to be.



totally true!


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where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2593527 - 04/23/04 03:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)


"I would just tell the truth to him, and if he can not handle it, it's not meant to be. "

What if you know that this significant other you are with is the one? You are so in love with her that you'd give your life! She is perfect, except for the problem of her insecurity. Would you really be willing to throw it all away just because he/she can't get over her insecurities?

If you ask me, lying would be the best option, not on moral grounds, but from a consequentialist perspective. By lying, you go can out and have a good time with your friends, which is a benefit to you, and at the same time your other lives in ignorance of your actions, which is beneficial to her. By lying, you are maximizing the benefits for the both of you. Ignorance is bliss.

Lying and keeping a good rapport with my wife or gf is much more beneficial to the both of us than for me to excercise "honesty", merely for the sake of being honest.

IN MY OPINION^^^
:blush:


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593535 - 04/23/04 03:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If you cannot be 100% yourself, how can you ever relax with the other? Keeping up any sort of pretense takes alot of effort and will cause stress and resentment.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: manna_man]
    #2593536 - 04/23/04 03:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"If you ask me, lying would be the best option, not on moral grounds, but from a consequentialist perspective. By lying, you go can out and have a good time with your friends, which is a benefit to you, and at the same time your other lives in ignorance of your actions, which is beneficial to her. By lying, you are maximizing the benefits for the both of you. Ignorance is bliss."

lying builds mental tension, even though it may not be aparent, over time people suspect things and this can lead to a big fight, breakup , ect. Always tell the truth and try to work through the problems... offer for your SO to go and hang out and meet the friends they are worried about,ect,  and council through any other insecurities he/she might have.... THEN if they still can not deal with it, it wasent meant to be... IMO.  :eek:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: manna_man]
    #2593542 - 04/23/04 03:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

manna_man said:
What if you know that this significant other you are with is the one? You are so in love with her that you'd give your life! She is perfect, except for the problem of her insecurity. Would you really be willing to throw it all away just because he/she can't get over her insecurities?

If you ask me, lying would be the best option, not on moral grounds, but from a consequentialist perspective. By lying, you go can out and have a good time with your friends, which is a benefit to you, and at the same time your other lives in ignorance of your actions, which is beneficial to her. By lying, you are maximizing the benefits for the both of you. Ignorance is bliss.

Lying and keeping a good rapport with my wife or gf is much more beneficial to the both of us than for me to excercise "honesty", merely for the sake of being honest.

IN MY OPINION^^^
:blush:




See!  This is what I was thinking!  What's the harm in it!

If I know that when I go out with people of the opposite sex, I am not going to do anything wrong, but it makes my SO feel insecure, yet my SO is perfect in every other way, why not lie???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593547 - 04/23/04 03:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Your discomfort already contains the answer, now doesn't it?  :3rd_eye:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Swami]
    #2593549 - 04/23/04 03:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If you cannot be 100% yourself, how can you ever relax with the other? Keeping up any sort of pretense takes alot of effort and will cause stress and resentment.




I know that what you are saying is exactly the right thing.  And I hate that.  :grin:  :heart:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefaelr
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Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Swami]
    #2593550 - 04/23/04 03:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If you cannot be 100% yourself, how can you ever relax with the other? Keeping up any sort of pretense takes alot of effort and will cause stress and resentment.



i never thought i agree with you on anything!:lol:


--------------------
where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: faelr]
    #2593557 - 04/23/04 03:19 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We probably agree on millions of things; just not imaginary stuff based on mere heresay evidence.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Swami]
    #2593563 - 04/23/04 03:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So....when is it okay to lie??? (j/k...I already know the answer to this one, too)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefaelr
the darkestlight

Registered: 04/12/04
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Swami]
    #2593580 - 04/23/04 03:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
We probably agree on millions of things; just not imaginary stuff based on mere heresay evidence.


hey now! i don't listen to heresay either!
yeah we probably do agree on most things....just had different experiences that warrant different beliefs.


--------------------
where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: faelr]
    #2593585 - 04/23/04 03:31 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, you are totally uninfluenced by what you read or hear from others regarding spiritual matters? Care to put that to the test?

*Derailment alert!*

Sorry frog, but we actually stayed on topic long enough to answer your question.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefaelr
the darkestlight

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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Swami]
    #2593596 - 04/23/04 03:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Ah, you are totally uninfluenced by what you read or hear from others regarding spiritual matters? Care to put that to the test?

*Derailment alert!*

Sorry frog, but we actually stayed on topic long enough to answer your question.


hahhaa:lol:hahahha
i can't say i haven't looked to certain readings for comparison on what i have experienced but i can say that my beliefs our quite fairly my own........don't you ever read my signature.
i don't know where i got this one and if it hasn't been used before, then more power to me!:lol:

"you can't learn anything unless you realize that you know nothing."


--------------------
where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2593956 - 04/23/04 08:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If a person's spouse exerts undue or irrational stress on their partner, such as in your scenario--the dictation of the prohibition on any socialization with the opposite sex--due to that individual's sui generis insecurity, which is not even paralleled in the personality of the partner that seeks participation in extracirricular activities with co-workers, then it is only a matter of time before the spouse's marital-partner will run out of sand in the hour-glass of ostensive obedience. Which will then turn right back upside down..and the sand will fall again..only this time, it will be the sands of resentment.

Lying is the easy, quick, and fast solution.

Instant...gratification.

The only true and far more rewarding solution, lies within the root of the problem. But nobody will ever get to the root of the problem through lying and deceit.. The only true path to the root of the problem, solving and eliminating the root.. is the old fashioned virtue of delayed gratification.. which will always have the roadsigns of "Honesty" pointing towards it, along with pits of sacrifices, and the road may be a lot longer than the road towards Instant Gratification that you passed back 2 miles ago in the fork of the road..

But at the end..who has truly learned more, and achieved more, spiritually and experientially? Who has become stronger and wiser? Who is the true winner? The one who went through the long road of Honesty, Sacrifices, Delayed Gratification.. or the one who took the fast shortcut of Instant Gratification, Guile, Deceit?

Who emerged victorious in the perennial race of The Tortoise vs The Hare..? :wink:

"I never lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you lie is when you are afraid."-John Gotti



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: Frog]
    #2594138 - 04/23/04 10:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

is it ok to lie??  only you can answer that one, but as swami has put it, you'll be creating a lot more stress for yourself.  believe me, I know a couple of habitual liars and they have all sorts of health problems (ulcers, constantly getting sick...etc) so "is it really worth it," should be the question.

would you agree frog that you are responsible for all the feelings you create for yourself?  people will get mad, frustrated, and worry when they see something in the world that they don't agree with.  they want things to be a certain way and if life doesn't present them with this scenario, they think it's the other person (in this case) that is "making me mad."  to me, only you can make yourself this way.  heh, people need to really calm down with their emotions instead of making a bunch of assumptions, and then even acting on these assumptions    :mushroom2:

to me if you have to lie to your SO about going out with the the opposite sex (same sex even :wink:) then that person deep inside doesn't trust themselves, doesn't trust their relationship, and they will fear that their partner won't accept them.  ify ou tell the truth, and the partner gets angry upset frustrated etc, then that is on them.  not to say don't talk about it, because talking is the best thing for a relationship in question.  if nothing "happened" physically or mentally then you have nothing to fear. 

that person is responsible for their emotions just as you are responsible for yours.  if you have a fear of loss of acceptence from your partner, it's because you depend on your partner's acceptence for happiness.  let us not be addicted to our desires! let us not be addicted to our mental version of the way the world should be.  after all, life's not going to give you everything, and therefore it is futile to depend on external situations to make yourseldf feel comfortable or happy. talk talk talk!!!

it's good to check on people now and then so you aren't being totally blindsided by dishonesty, but if they have a true loving relationship, then confidence will always be there because they'll have a very deep understand for each other.

now then I have a question for you frog, what would you consider a true loving relationship?  what ideas would that entail?  :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (04/23/04 10:44 AM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Any time is a good time to lie! [Re: kaiowas]
    #2594224 - 04/23/04 11:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Skorpivo's quote: "I never lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you lie is when you are afraid."-John Gotti

I like that quote. It's true. Plus, everything else you said is dead on, too.

Kaiowas: what would you consider a true loving relationship? what ideas would that entail?

First, you said good things, too. I think everyone said what I expected everyone to say. I just needed to hear it be said.

A true loving relationship? Easy. Respect, mostly. Two individuals, each living their lives independently of the other, but sharing them, at the same time, and respecting each other. Something like that.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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