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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn-
    #2593064 - 04/23/04 12:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

That's right folks, this just in:

Imagine you have a desk. On that desk you have a pencil and a stapler. You move the pencil, and the stapler stayed in the same place! There ya go, proof that the very fabric of the universe in concsiouness, or self-awareness.

Everything exists relative to everything else. correct? So when you move the pencil, you're actually moving the entire universe, right? Cause any location could said to be the center of the universe seeing as every location is defined only by its relationships to all other locations, see?

But then we ponder how did the stapler KNOW that the pencil moved? And it must have known, because its very existence was defined by that pencil in the first place. When the pencil moves, the 4th moon of jupiter knows as well. Or at least, with knowledge of the possibility of self-awareness it could be said that the moon knew. It didn't really know, it just continued its relative existence to all things, and I choose to interpret this behaviour as self-knowledge.

relative existence means that all things are "aware" of eachother. If we look at the universe as one huge entity, it could be said that it is fully aware of itself. Awareness of all things in the universe makes it hard to go harvest wheat and catch some fish, so we're a little dumbed down compared to a rock. Makes one feel a little left out eh?


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2593081 - 04/23/04 12:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You're making my head hurt.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Frog]
    #2593083 - 04/23/04 12:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

that was only part of my plan


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Anonymous

Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2593092 - 04/23/04 12:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Post History Deleted Upon User's Request


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2593265 - 04/23/04 01:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I hope you brought enough drugs for everyone.  :spliff:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2593344 - 04/23/04 02:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, I'm going to tackle your thoughts.

There was a time, a couple of years ago, that I realized that we are each of us all in a different spot at the same time, but as time moves, our locations move.

We are not aware that each of us has moved, relative to one another, but we have, and not only have we moved in relation to one another, but the events surrounding each of our movements have changed as well.

Why have we moved? What events arose causing the movement? What caused the events? Why were we put in each other's paths?

Time is on a continuum, but we are not, and there is some kind of nexus that puts us in each other's paths, for reasons unknown to us, that causes us to benefit from one another or learn from the events.

Now my head really hurts.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal consciousn- [Re: Frog]
    #2593582 - 04/23/04 03:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, let's take this a teensy bit further.

We may not each of us be consciously aware that each of us have moved in relation to each other, but our subconscious may be aware, somehow.

It's like in that book I was talking about a while back, "The Zero Point Field", (fuck, it's like next to my name and I had to scroll up to remember what it was, am I an idiot or what), that we are each of us tapping into a source where all knowledge is stored.

So when we move, we are aware somehow that others have moved, even if not consciously.

(I'm going to probably keep coming up with more thoughts, so beware. Feel free to jump in.)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinemoebiustrip
coincidencefrequencyanalyst
Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 40
Loc: Way, way out there.
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2594548 - 04/23/04 01:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I just turned in a research paper on this topic. The property you're referring to in which the universe is defined by the relationship of its contents and not a hard coordinate system is called "diffeomorphism invariance." What a mouthful.


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not-2


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2594656 - 04/23/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


But then we ponder how did the stapler KNOW that the pencil moved? And it must have known, because its very existence was defined by that pencil in the first place.





If I do not exist, then for me, neither the stapler or the pencil exist. Therefore, my perception of existance of both the stapler and pencil is dependent upon me rather than each other. The pencil knows nothing about the staper. The staper knows nothing about the pencil. All that is known is what I perceive. Just because I call a circle a square, doesn't mean that a square is circular.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: Seuss]
    #2596750 - 04/24/04 01:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think we need to figure out what we are before we go tackling the universe


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: BleaK]
    #2596827 - 04/24/04 01:38 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Inanimate objects are not aware of each other, but do influence each other.

I believe I understand what you're saying, but it's not moving the universe, just the relative location of what we could a "point" in the universe, and therefore changing the location of all infinite atoms, electrons, planets, stars, dust and dark energy around that point. Everything moves slightly, but all remains the same as it once did.

Now imagine an infinite number of particles doing this in an infinitely small division of points in a second, and see how much any absolute god (if one existed) would have to think of in a nanosecond. And that's just the placement


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinemoebiustrip
coincidencefrequencyanalyst
Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 40
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: Ravus]
    #2597007 - 04/24/04 02:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Now imagine an infinite number of particles doing this in an infinitely small division of points in a second, and see how much any absolute god (if one existed) would have to think of in a nanosecond. And that's just the placement




A philosopher named Spinoza would argue that the god in question is the particles, reducing it to a matter of self-awareness.


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not-2


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: moebiustrip]
    #2597092 - 04/24/04 03:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The god isn't self aware?

I want to see what you meant by that. If god is a force, he cannot be aware truely, as aware is a human perception; he may be something else, but aware would require a mindset, a human element that humans push onto gods and deities to make them seem more human. If it does have a mindset, how can it not be aware and how can it become self aware?

Maybe with the invention of LSD the god merged with it and became aware of itself.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinemoebiustrip
coincidencefrequencyanalyst
Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 40
Loc: Way, way out there.
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Relatively located objects as proof of universal conscio [Re: Ravus]
    #2599175 - 04/24/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

he may be something else, but aware would require a mindset, a human element that humans push onto gods and deities to make them seem more human.




I won't dispute this because you're right, linguistically.  The property in which a god that is everything around us 'knows' exactly what is happen being 'he' is what's happening is most closely related to our human term 'self-awareness.'  One reason I don't practice philosophy of god as much as I used to is the fact that one can use reason to argue just about any point as true, and god is a particularly hard target to use reason on. :smile:


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not-2


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