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Offlinerider420
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'Lethal' dose in COG death
    #25930188 - 04/12/19 10:49 AM (9 days, 5 hours ago)

'Lethal' dose in COG death

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/253820/Lethal-dose-in-COG-death

Quote:

A 16-year-old Kamloops girl died from a “lethal level” of a stimulant at Kelowna's Center of Gravity festival last year, and the coroner has recommended that Interior Health offer drug testing at future events.

Coroner Adele Lambert completed an investigation earlier this year into the death of Adison Paige Davies last July. In the report, Davies was described as an “excellent student with no health concerns.”

At about 8:30 p.m. on July 27, 2018, Davies took a tablet of what she believed to be “ecstasy.” While ecstasy generally contains MDMA as its active ingredient, a range of associated stimulants can be present in pills thought to be ecstasy.

Davies' pill instead contained methylenedioxyamphetamine, or MDA, which the report describes as having “more stimulant and hallucinogenic properties" than MDMA. The pill contained a “toxic level” of MDA.

Shortly after taking the drug, Davies began to have difficulty breathing and experienced seizures, and medical professionals at the festival began treating her. Within 20 minutes, she had become unresponsive. Eighty-six minutes after taking the pill, she was pronounced dead at Kelowna General Hospital.

"Autopsy revealed pulmonary edema and congestion which was consistent with a death due to seizure and cardiac arrest," Lambert's report states.

“(MDA) has a stimulant effect with a risk of leading to a sudden increased demand on the coronary arteries which supply the heart muscle, potentially resulting in any one of a number of cardiovascular emergencies."

In light of Davies' death, the BC Coroners Service recommends Interior Heath provide drug checking and harm reduction information at future events.

"Interior Health supports the recommendation that drug checking and general harm reduction services be available at all mass gatherings where illicit-substance use is a known risk," said Dr. Silvina Mema, Interior Health medical health officer. "From our perspective, these services need to include technologies that test for fentanyl and other substances."

The AIDS Network Kootenay Outreach and Support Society has been providing comprehensive drug testing at festivals like Shambhala for years, but Center of Gravity has never offered the service.

Last summer, downtown Kelowna's Living Positive Resource Centre offered drug testing a few minutes from the festival grounds, with funding from IH. The service wasn't well known though, and they only tested two samples during the festival weekend.

Candice Berry, executive director at the LPRC, told Castanet they weren't allowed to hand out naloxone kits, used to reverse opioid overdoses, inside the festival grounds.

Center of Gravity announced earlier this year it would not be returning in 2019, but they added they hoped to back in 2020.

"Interior Health medical health officers have since been working closely with Centre of Gravity to incorporate harm reduction and drug checking services in future events," said Dr. Mema.

The BC Centre on Substance Use supported drug testing at festivals across B.C. in 2018, and of the 180 samples they tested that were expected to contain MDMA, 15 contained MDA, and one had both MDA and MDMA.

Before her death, Davies was on track to graduate high school early, and she had been accepted into a psychology and sociology program at Thompson Rivers University. Her parents said she was planning on pursuing a career in medicine. A GoFundMe page raised more than $16,000 to help support Davies' family.




Another death caused by prohibitionist narcs who will watch you die while they claim that they care about you. Fascist fucking Nazis and like the Nazis all Christians yup boy and girls while not all Christians are Nazis all Nazis were Christians. That's right the most evil group in our near past were all Christians that the pope blessed. Ain't religion a fucking joke a bunch of fascist parasites who want to tell you how to live your life while they fuck your kids literally and figuratively. Faith the most important part of a con!


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: rider420]
    #25930402 - 04/12/19 01:12 PM (9 days, 2 hours ago)

I didn't know MDA was toxic or especially deadly


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25930436 - 04/12/19 01:38 PM (9 days, 2 hours ago)

I knew it was more harmful than mdma but not by much. You'd be surprised how even mdma can kill people sometimes. A friend of mine had 500mg in a night and had a stroke which eventually killed her after months of surgeries having part of her skull removed, putting the skull piece back in, infection, then sudden death. She was not herself at all during that time. It was very very sad to see. Yet many people on here talk about taking a gram over a weekend like it's no big deal. I still like mdma but I definitely won't go over 250mg in a night anymore.


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Offlinerider420
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: searching]
    #25930505 - 04/12/19 02:28 PM (9 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

searching said:
I knew it was more harmful than mdma but not by much. You'd be surprised how even mdma can kill people sometimes. A friend of mine had 500mg in a night and had a stroke which eventually killed her after months of surgeries having part of her skull removed, putting the skull piece back in, infection, then sudden death. She was not herself at all during that time. It was very very sad to see. Yet many people on here talk about taking a gram over a weekend like it's no big deal. I still like mdma but I definitely won't go over 250mg in a night anymore.




MDMA is a safe drug if its made in a lab and taken at the right dose, its the adulterates that end up killing most people. You can OD on MDMA but its very rare and only in extreme large doses.

http://theconversation.com/how-does-mdma-kill-109506

Quote:

MDMA (Methylenedioxymethamphetamine), commonly referred to as ecstasy, was manufactured as a potential pharmaceutical early last century. It had some limited use in the 1970s as a therapeutic aid in trauma treatment and in relationship counselling, and more recent studies using MDMA for trauma have shown some promise.

Structurally, MDMA is similar to the stimulant methamphetamine and to the hallucinogen mescaline, and so has both stimulant and mildly hallucinogenic effects.

Most problems with recreational MDMA are acute. Dependence and other long-term problems are quite rare. Less than 1% of all drug treatment presentations are for ongoing problems with MDMA, such as dependence.

Most fatalities from taking ecstasy are a result of a combination of factors, not just the drug itself.

Most of these conditions don’t result in death if they are treated early, but because of the stigma associated with using illicit drugs, sometimes people don’t seek help early enough. Any unusual or unwanted symptoms experienced while taking ecstasy should be treated as soon as they appear.

Read more:  Six reasons Australia should pilot 'pill testing' party drugs

Contaminants and polydrug use
Most people are under the impression drugs are illegal because they are dangerous, but a drug’s legal status isn’t necessarily related to relative danger. In fact, drugs are much more dangerous because they are unregulated, manufactured by backyard chemists in clandestine laboratories.

Unlike alcohol, which is a highly regulated drug, there’s no way to tell how potent illicit drugs are or what’s in them, unless you test them.

In Australia, what is sold as ecstasy may contain a lot of MDMA or very little. Pills can contain other more dangerous drugs that mimic the effects of MDMA, and benign substances, such as lactose, as filler agents.

A recent report on findings from Australia’s first official pill testing trial at the Groovin’ the Moo music festival last year, found nearly half the pills tested were of low purity. Some 84% of people who had their pills tested thought they had bought MDMA but only 51% actually contained any MDMA.

Some of the more dangerous contaminants found in pills include PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine), which is more toxic at lower doses than ecstasy; N-Ethylpentylone, a cathinone which is a lot more potent than MDMA making it easier to take too much; and NBOMes (N-methoxybenzyl), which is more toxic at lower doses than other hallucinogenic drugs and can cause heart attack, renal failure, and stroke.

Pills have also been detected in UK and NZ with up to three doses of MDMA in a single pill.

Although it’s possible to take too much MDMA and experience severe toxic effects, as with other illicit drugs, most ecstasy-related deaths involve multiple drugs.

Sometimes these drug mixes are unexpected and sometimes people take multiple drugs deliberately. It’s safer for people using ecstasy to limit use of other drugs, including alcohol, to avoid risk of adverse effects.

Read more:  While law makers squabble over pill testing, people should test their drugs at home

Heatstroke
Heatstroke or hyperthermia (dangerously high body temperature) is one of the most common issues among people taking MDMA.

MDMA increases body temperature and sweating, and using it is often accompanied by physical activity (such as dancing) in a hot environment (such as a crowded venue or in the summer heat), exacerbating fluid loss. If you don’t have enough fluids your body can’t cool itself properly.

The effect of ecstasy can be exacerbated by consuming alcohol. Alcohol is a diuretic, so it makes you urinate more and increases dehydration. Dehydration increases risk of heatstroke.

Heatstroke can cause brain, heart, kidney and muscle damage, and if left untreated can cause serious complications or death.

If active, people taking MDMA should drink around 500ml (two cups) of water an hour and take regular breaks. Isotonic drinks (such as Powerade and Gatorade) are also OK.


MDMA increases body temperature and sweating, so users have to stay hydrated. from www.shutterstock.com
Water intoxication
People using MDMA can get really thirsty. Some is probably the direct effect of MDMA, some because they’re hot, and some from dehydration.

But if you have too much water the ratio of salts and water in the body becomes unbalanced – basically the level of salt in your body gets too low and your cells start swelling with water. The technical name is hyponatraemia.

MDMA is an anti-diuretic, so it makes you retain water, which can increase risk of water intoxication.

People may feel nausea with vomiting, confusion, severe fatigue, muscle weakness and cramps.

People taking ecstasy need to stay hydrated but only replace what is lost through sweating – around 500ml per hour if active and around 250ml an hour when inactive.

Serotonin syndrome
The main action of MDMA in the brain is an increase in serotonin, which among other things is responsible for regulating pro-social behaviour, empathy and optimism. This is why people who have taken MDMA feel connection with and positivity towards others.

But too much serotonin can result in “serotonin syndrome”. It typically occurs when other drugs that also raise serotonin levels (other stimulants, antidepressants) are taken together with MDMA.

Signs include high body temperature, agitation, confusion, problems controlling muscles, headache and the shakes. People might also experience seizures or loss of consciousness.

It can be fatal if the symptoms are left untreated, so if anyone taking MDMA shows any of these signs they should be treated immediately. It’s safer not to mix different types of drugs, especially if you do not know what’s in them.

Read more:  Here's why doctors are backing pill testing at music festivals across Australia

Other causes
More rarely, fatalities have been reported as a result of other health complications after taking ecstasy, especially if the person has pre-existing risk factors, such as high blood pressure or a heart condition. Complications related to heart failure, liver failure and brain haemorrhage have been reported in people already at high risk of these problems.

The number of people who die from party drugs is relatively low compared to other drugs such as heroin, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals. But the media tend to report a higher proportion of these deaths compared to other drugs, increasing the perception of harm. Most of the deaths are not directly from the drug itself but other complications or contaminants.

It’s safest not to take drugs at all, but if you choose to, it’s safer to take a small amount first (like a quarter of a pill) and wait at least an hour to make sure there are no ill effects; drink about 500ml per hour of water if active; and don’t mix drugs, including alcohol.

In the absence of a legal, uncontaminated supply of MDMA, when pill testing becomes available in Australia it will at least help people make informed decisions about drug use and reduce the risk of fatalities and other harms. People often choose not to take their pills, or take smaller amounts, when they discover contaminants.




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Offlinetacodude
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: rider420]
    #25930582 - 04/12/19 03:11 PM (9 days, 51 minutes ago)

You'll feel the toxicity of MDA if you use it. It's very similar to the difference between harmine and harmaline, which are legal MAOI compounds with a history of safe use with MAOI contradictions considered. So if you're curious what the difference is like obtain pure extracts of those compounds off Ebay and you'll see what I mean.


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: tacodude]
    #25930718 - 04/12/19 04:25 PM (8 days, 23 hours ago)

Ive always felt...like....fuck mdma...i did it many times when i was young....its hella dangerous most of the shit salt is methylone salts...and unprodictible bullshit.....fuck em’......like joey diaz was saying fuck dmt..... welll Fuck mdma/mda im not trying to stroke out at a hot summer festival on that bullshit


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: filmoee]
    #25930920 - 04/12/19 05:54 PM (8 days, 22 hours ago)

Then say fuck methylone and the bullshit cuts.... Real MDMA and MDA is safe in therapeutic doses just MDA has more of a toxic element. It's more potent too so less is required, which is what newbies don't know and when they treat it like molly that's likely cut they end up taking 2x-3x the amount they need


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: searching]
    #25930933 - 04/12/19 06:01 PM (8 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

searching said:
I knew it was more harmful than mdma but not by much. You'd be surprised how even mdma can kill people sometimes. A friend of mine had 500mg in a night and had a stroke which eventually killed her after months of surgeries having part of her skull removed, putting the skull piece back in, infection, then sudden death. She was not herself at all during that time. It was very very sad to see. Yet many people on here talk about taking a gram over a weekend like it's no big deal. I still like mdma but I definitely won't go over 250mg in a night anymore.




1-1.5 mg/kg followed by 0.5-0.75 mg/kg is pretty much the safest way and most effective to dose no matter what two points in the range are chosen.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: tacodude]
    #25931278 - 04/12/19 09:33 PM (8 days, 18 hours ago)

especially after re-discovering adderall/adhd meds I very much agree with the "fuck mdma" sentiment. You know what you're getting is pure/safe for a certainty, and its just plain better. Especially if you get time release ones, its like MDMA that lasts 12 hours, even after I crash and sleep for a few brief hours I'll wake up and still have overt aphrodisiac effects up to 24 hours after dosing, its wild stuff, best aphrodisiac of all time.

and you still get medicinal effects similar but inferior to MDMA, couples therapy in a pill/long intimate conversations/etc


Edited by Psilosopherr (04/12/19 11:48 PM)


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25931440 - 04/12/19 11:05 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

Amphetamines are not even close to MDMA/MDA even though it contains it withinthe structure. Doesn't work the same hour does it work in the same area. They have completely different therapeutic profiles.....

On top of that you're both complaining about the street market and the way they cut batches of "Molly," but those complaints don't apply to pure 100% MDMA & MDA. Both compounds are extremely amazing and unique and to compare them to meth is like comparing caffeine to cocaine


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: tacodude]
    #25931445 - 04/12/19 11:07 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

Are you talking to me?

I have no interest in debating the subjective effects of drugs, feels like molly to me :shrug: whats it to ya


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Applying Jungian ideas to the psychedelic experience

Snark of the Day: You followed a set of written instructions verbatim and essentially canned grain and put something in it. Wow, you are such a "mad scientist"


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25931460 - 04/12/19 11:15 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

Yes... I just want to make sure it's clarified what you're griping about with the impure stuff has nothing to do with the compound itself or you'd hate amphetamines and meth as those are more likely to get active cuts on the street.

Then of course there's the major difference in effect be it subjective or pharmacology, pharmacokinetics, etc. although I'm with you too and not trying to discuss/debate/argue semantics. Just making a note for anyone less informed who might read these posts. Don't want someone developing an amphetamine addiction because they tried amp because of MDMA due to your statement where MDMA wouldn't lead to addiction in this scenario as some do though it's really rare.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: tacodude]
    #25931469 - 04/12/19 11:21 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

How tiresome, fight the good fight for those noobs

you may not be here to debate semantics but thats all you're doing


--------------------
:raver2:How To Trip:jellyfish:Ultimate Tek Compendium:jellyfish:DIY Capsule Filler:raver2:

:mushroom2:Organize to Legalize Psilocybin:mushroom2:

Applying Jungian ideas to the psychedelic experience

Snark of the Day: You followed a set of written instructions verbatim and essentially canned grain and put something in it. Wow, you are such a "mad scientist"


Edited by Psilosopherr (04/12/19 11:22 PM)


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25931785 - 04/13/19 05:34 AM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

I know thanks for trying to help me... I'm fine with posting a basic clarification rather than argue it further if I don't have to. If it's challenged what am I supposed to do though right?

I understand that you find more standard amphetamines including methamphetamine better than MDMA/MDA. It may have a therapeutic profile that fits you better, but that's not true for everyone of course. The fact is the therapeutic profile is very different, which your experience shows. The best way I could put the difference is MDMA is empathatic (duh) while meth and amphetamines are more personal empathy if that can be understood. They both have their uses, but to call MDMA garbage because it doesn't fit your needs as for many it does. To say the least meth was HORRIBLE for me as even one use left me crying the whole next day about the abuses in my life and where they left me at.... It wasn't like my situation was bad as I just left the shelter and didn't know my new relationship would become abusive ,


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: rider420]
    #25931940 - 04/13/19 09:20 AM (8 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

rider420 said:
Quote:

searching said:
I knew it was more harmful than mdma but not by much. You'd be surprised how even mdma can kill people sometimes. A friend of mine had 500mg in a night and had a stroke which eventually killed her after months of surgeries having part of her skull removed, putting the skull piece back in, infection, then sudden death. She was not herself at all during that time. It was very very sad to see. Yet many people on here talk about taking a gram over a weekend like it's no big deal. I still like mdma but I definitely won't go over 250mg in a night anymore.




MDMA is a safe drug if its made in a lab and taken at the right dose, its the adulterates that end up killing most people. You can OD on MDMA but its very rare and only in extreme large doses.

http://theconversation.com/how-does-mdma-kill-109506

Quote:

MDMA (Methylenedioxymethamphetamine), commonly referred to as ecstasy, was manufactured as a potential pharmaceutical early last century. It had some limited use in the 1970s as a therapeutic aid in trauma treatment and in relationship counselling, and more recent studies using MDMA for trauma have shown some promise.

Structurally, MDMA is similar to the stimulant methamphetamine and to the hallucinogen mescaline, and so has both stimulant and mildly hallucinogenic effects.

Most problems with recreational MDMA are acute. Dependence and other long-term problems are quite rare. Less than 1% of all drug treatment presentations are for ongoing problems with MDMA, such as dependence.

Most fatalities from taking ecstasy are a result of a combination of factors, not just the drug itself.

Most of these conditions don’t result in death if they are treated early, but because of the stigma associated with using illicit drugs, sometimes people don’t seek help early enough. Any unusual or unwanted symptoms experienced while taking ecstasy should be treated as soon as they appear.

Read more:  Six reasons Australia should pilot 'pill testing' party drugs

Contaminants and polydrug use
Most people are under the impression drugs are illegal because they are dangerous, but a drug’s legal status isn’t necessarily related to relative danger. In fact, drugs are much more dangerous because they are unregulated, manufactured by backyard chemists in clandestine laboratories.

Unlike alcohol, which is a highly regulated drug, there’s no way to tell how potent illicit drugs are or what’s in them, unless you test them.

In Australia, what is sold as ecstasy may contain a lot of MDMA or very little. Pills can contain other more dangerous drugs that mimic the effects of MDMA, and benign substances, such as lactose, as filler agents.

A recent report on findings from Australia’s first official pill testing trial at the Groovin’ the Moo music festival last year, found nearly half the pills tested were of low purity. Some 84% of people who had their pills tested thought they had bought MDMA but only 51% actually contained any MDMA.

Some of the more dangerous contaminants found in pills include PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine), which is more toxic at lower doses than ecstasy; N-Ethylpentylone, a cathinone which is a lot more potent than MDMA making it easier to take too much; and NBOMes (N-methoxybenzyl), which is more toxic at lower doses than other hallucinogenic drugs and can cause heart attack, renal failure, and stroke.

Pills have also been detected in UK and NZ with up to three doses of MDMA in a single pill.

Although it’s possible to take too much MDMA and experience severe toxic effects, as with other illicit drugs, most ecstasy-related deaths involve multiple drugs.

Sometimes these drug mixes are unexpected and sometimes people take multiple drugs deliberately. It’s safer for people using ecstasy to limit use of other drugs, including alcohol, to avoid risk of adverse effects.

Read more:  While law makers squabble over pill testing, people should test their drugs at home

Heatstroke
Heatstroke or hyperthermia (dangerously high body temperature) is one of the most common issues among people taking MDMA.

MDMA increases body temperature and sweating, and using it is often accompanied by physical activity (such as dancing) in a hot environment (such as a crowded venue or in the summer heat), exacerbating fluid loss. If you don’t have enough fluids your body can’t cool itself properly.

The effect of ecstasy can be exacerbated by consuming alcohol. Alcohol is a diuretic, so it makes you urinate more and increases dehydration. Dehydration increases risk of heatstroke.

Heatstroke can cause brain, heart, kidney and muscle damage, and if left untreated can cause serious complications or death.

If active, people taking MDMA should drink around 500ml (two cups) of water an hour and take regular breaks. Isotonic drinks (such as Powerade and Gatorade) are also OK.


MDMA increases body temperature and sweating, so users have to stay hydrated. from www.shutterstock.com
Water intoxication
People using MDMA can get really thirsty. Some is probably the direct effect of MDMA, some because they’re hot, and some from dehydration.

But if you have too much water the ratio of salts and water in the body becomes unbalanced – basically the level of salt in your body gets too low and your cells start swelling with water. The technical name is hyponatraemia.

MDMA is an anti-diuretic, so it makes you retain water, which can increase risk of water intoxication.

People may feel nausea with vomiting, confusion, severe fatigue, muscle weakness and cramps.

People taking ecstasy need to stay hydrated but only replace what is lost through sweating – around 500ml per hour if active and around 250ml an hour when inactive.

Serotonin syndrome
The main action of MDMA in the brain is an increase in serotonin, which among other things is responsible for regulating pro-social behaviour, empathy and optimism. This is why people who have taken MDMA feel connection with and positivity towards others.

But too much serotonin can result in “serotonin syndrome”. It typically occurs when other drugs that also raise serotonin levels (other stimulants, antidepressants) are taken together with MDMA.

Signs include high body temperature, agitation, confusion, problems controlling muscles, headache and the shakes. People might also experience seizures or loss of consciousness.

It can be fatal if the symptoms are left untreated, so if anyone taking MDMA shows any of these signs they should be treated immediately. It’s safer not to mix different types of drugs, especially if you do not know what’s in them.

Read more:  Here's why doctors are backing pill testing at music festivals across Australia

Other causes
More rarely, fatalities have been reported as a result of other health complications after taking ecstasy, especially if the person has pre-existing risk factors, such as high blood pressure or a heart condition. Complications related to heart failure, liver failure and brain haemorrhage have been reported in people already at high risk of these problems.

The number of people who die from party drugs is relatively low compared to other drugs such as heroin, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals. But the media tend to report a higher proportion of these deaths compared to other drugs, increasing the perception of harm. Most of the deaths are not directly from the drug itself but other complications or contaminants.

It’s safest not to take drugs at all, but if you choose to, it’s safer to take a small amount first (like a quarter of a pill) and wait at least an hour to make sure there are no ill effects; drink about 500ml per hour of water if active; and don’t mix drugs, including alcohol.

In the absence of a legal, uncontaminated supply of MDMA, when pill testing becomes available in Australia it will at least help people make informed decisions about drug use and reduce the risk of fatalities and other harms. People often choose not to take their pills, or take smaller amounts, when they discover contaminants.







It's generally pretty safe at normal dosages, but we all know the average user is not well informed and people like to take more and more. I've had friends who I warn about taking it too much or too often, yet they don't listen and end up depressed having brain zaps for a week. It also increases blood pressure which can lead to stroke or brain aneurysm if someone has an underlying condition. The problem is you never know if you have that underlying condition.

So to say that it's safe... Safe relative to what? Compared to weed, no it's not that safe. And you shouldn't downplay the risks. This is a harm reduction website.

Webmd


--------------------


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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: searching]
    #25932226 - 04/13/19 12:18 PM (8 days, 3 hours ago)

I never downplayed the risks.... It is very safe even compared to cannabis while it's not risk free. Those risks are more associated though with things like dehydration or improper dosing be it too much or frequent.

Seriously why call me out when they are pushing amphetamines and meth... In comparison to those two MDMA is pretty safe when used when mostly correctly. I was just making the point they shouldn't push amphetamines as better than MDMA/MDA for that their personal opinion. To not dismiss the value of MDMA because it's not right for them as well as not pushing harder drugs actually known for ongoing addiction to it.

Seriously I'm tired of people taking my statements out of context rather then acknowledging the whole statement.... I clearly pointed MDA ability to work at a lower dose leading to people overdosing when they take it like cut MDMA. That's not an issue with the compound itself though and prohibition and the information it holds back, and not the substance itself as those two made it out to be.


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Offlinerider420
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: searching]
    #25932718 - 04/13/19 05:45 PM (7 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

searching said:

So to say that it's safe... Safe relative to what? Compared to weed, no it's not that safe. And you shouldn't downplay the risks. This is a harm reduction website.

Webmd




Compared to alcohol or tobacco MDMA causes less harmful effects short and long term and a tiny fraction  of the deaths. Reduce the harm by legalizing all drugs while informing of there real relative harmful effects. Let people decide what drugs they want to use then help those who can't help themselves.

Face the facts obesity is far more harmful then MDMA or Shoorms causing far more deaths and health issues, everything is relative.

BTW more people die from aspirin per year then MDMA so what is safe other then  cannabis? :ganja:


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: rider420]
    #25937661 - 04/16/19 09:55 AM (5 days, 6 hours ago)

MDA never gave me "more problems" than MDMA. theyre almost interchangeable. MDA is just less loved up, more "respect" rather than love in my opinion, but most people cant tell the difference.

The idea that MDA is some shitty substitute is crazy. Its like saying ALD52 is shit

From memory both mda and mdma have LD50's at around 2g

Reading this feels like the 90s and the whole "how to stay safe at raves" thing and as if ecstasy is new again or something. At least no Ricuarte

A drug that was made before mdma and military tested is somehow just a "stimulant".


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



Edited by Fractal420 (04/16/19 10:04 AM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25939608 - 04/17/19 11:39 AM (4 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
Are you talking to me?

I have no interest in debating the subjective effects of drugs, feels like molly to me :shrug: whats it to ya




"Molly"? Maybe that's half the problem right there.

If amphetamine/methamphetamine DO actually feel like MDA/MDMA to YOU, then you need to realize you are a VERY special case and your experiences are unapplicable to the general population.

And you should be mindful of this, rather than making comments which could lead one who hasn't tried both to believe they are the same.

They are EXTREMELY different drugs. Ignoring their therapeutic uses, which have almost zero overlap, amp/meth are hedonistic addictive drugs which when abused lead to chronic re-dosing, daily use, binges lasting as long as the user has more...MDMA just can't be abused in this way.

If you are just looking for a drug to use to maintain a hard on for ungodly lengths of time, which it sounds like you are, then yeah, sure, speed does the trick...

But the rambling, long, shallow conversations that occur on amp/meth have little in common with how MDMA can open one up and the insight it can provide. Especially in the context of talking to a professional, not your SO, and exploring past traumas in a meaningful way.

Amp just does not produce the same level of prosocial effects, illicit the same level of empathy, or allow one to to reach the same level of insight.

Intimate insight: MDMA changes how people talk about significant others

Don't you think if amp/meth could produce useful enactogenic effects in the general population that Psychs would be all over them instead endangering their careers to lead the campaign to legalize MDMA for use in therapy?

As for recreational use, the two have very little in common.

Not to mention I think you have completely misunderstood the sentiment held by most members of the "fuck MDMA" crowd...generally they believe that other psychedelics can fill its role, or would favor the use of safer enactogens...they aren't saying "fuck MDMA lets get high on meth and wake up with boners the next day!"


Edited by Holybullshit (04/17/19 12:05 PM)


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: 'Lethal' dose in COG death [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25939634 - 04/17/19 12:03 PM (4 days, 3 hours ago)

You'll find more cases of teenagers dropping dead in the middle of athletic activity, such as football practice, than you will those who have died of MDA/MDMA absent poly-drug abuse or extraneous factors.


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