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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26340688 - 11/23/19 04:38 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

But is volume based right? not weight based.

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OfflineJakeoncid419
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26340708 - 11/23/19 04:48 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Yes


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OfflineJericho_Button
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26344385 - 11/25/19 10:56 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man! So I got my trays out to fruit this morning! I had to work so I basically stuck em in, gave them another quick mist then set the fan and fogger on a 3min on/10min off cycle, staggered by 2 minutes to give the martha a couple of minutes to fill with mist before draggin in the hot air through the filters.

Due to unforseen circumstances I had to go away on the weekend, so I cased them last night and got them in this morning, but I had to go to work so I couldn't spend the day tweaking the timers to get it perfect. I've been shitting myself all day about coming home to my trays swimming in condensation or something! I got home and there's no condensation at all as I suppose it should be, seeing as the ambient temp is steady meaning all things should be at equal temps in that room.

I have some pics here, please take a look at my casings and tell me what you think, I'm worried that it's actually not quite wet enough. I touched it and it is definitely moist, but it wouldn't meet my definition of 'field capacity'. I was thinking that due to it maintaining a reasonable level of moisture throughout the day, despite the cyclic evaporation, the evaporation itself will drive the fruiting and the moisture level in the casing won't necessarily mattar so long as it provides the right %RH at the surface of the substrate, but I've also considered givng the casings a bit of an extra mist, what would you say to this?



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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jericho_Button]
    #26344445 - 11/25/19 11:23 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Looks good yes spray it down with distilled water try to increase ur hydration a little the first few days you want it on the wet side once u start seeing pins back it off some but still make sure ur case is not drying out. Pay close attention. Learning how to dial and maintain your rehydration system it the last piece of the puzzle. Looks very promising tho! I’m excited!


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26344568 - 11/25/19 12:38 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think that the fogger can replace manual hydration? With the fogger how often you have to rehydrate manually the casing layer?

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26344667 - 11/25/19 01:21 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah that’s it purpose but I still most them down when I first put them in


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OfflineJericho_Button
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26350041 - 11/28/19 06:55 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

So it's 4 days in and I've been stressing quite a bit haha! I know it's 7-10 days for pins usually but I haven't noticed any growth at all into the casing, it doesn't appear to be 'colonised' whatsoever. Judging by a lot of your pics in various threads it seems I wouldn't necessarily expect to see anything like that but we shall see!

I thought I'd ask you a bit more about the culture I'm working with, here's some pics:


The first pic is the plate that I have just started a fresh batch of jars from.

The second pic is a transfer plate from the same culture as the plate in the first picture (the original culture was the culture that I have just spawned from my last batch of jars). This plate is now around 5/6 weeks old and still looks healthy! It's grown really slowly.

The third pic is a jar that I have started from the plate in the first picture. There are 8 in total and some are coming on but are still pretty slow, whereas some have stalled.

Are my extra fuzzy cultures a normal feature for multi-spore Pan Cyan cultures? And is my slow growth likely to be due to overly nutritious agar? I've noticed in many of my plates that growth will stop and start, I'm wondering if this is where nutrition becomes less than optimal after a period of time causing the growth to restart.

I've been thinking of doing some extra transfers from the plates in the pictures but cutting the sugars in my agar solution as you mentioned in this thread:

Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
Quote:

SWFL said:
What is the latest  favorite agar recipe specifically for P. Cyan?




P.s here is the Ramsey recipe lol
1000ml distilled water  (950g)
32g dextrose (sugar)
16 g malt extract
16 g peptone
8g yeast
20 g agar
10 g potato starch

(Optional below)
.3 g ammonium citrate
.2 g thiamine
.2g magnesium phosphate

You can drop the nutes down considerably depending on what your doing (for my low nute recipe I remove the 32g of sugar (usually glucose) drop my other sugars to 10gs. (Each)
I can def say I get very few pan stall outs on this recipe instead I’ve been getting some very interesting looking mycelium





I'm hoping this will shorten the time between transfers and help me get to a more stable culture with a more narrow genetic spectrum. What do you think?


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OfflineJericho_Button
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jericho_Button]
    #26350633 - 11/28/19 01:52 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

:rolleyes:

I fucked up a bit! I had one of my trays sitting paritially under the inlet pipe from the humidifier, I thought it was helping distribute the mist throughout the martha by obstructing it as it flowed in from the pipe. I had also tried to alter my timer schedule but I ended up making a 10 minute cycle instead of a 13 minutes cycle.

The tray mentioned ended up swimming in water... I just poured this out of it:



It didn't smell so I'm hoping it's mostly just leeched nutrients from the substrate and mycelium but I'm sure the potential for bacteria could ruin the whole grow. I'll wait and see. Luckily I have some more jars on the way.

I put it back in but at the bottom near the fan hoping it will dry out a bit. In hindsight the amount of trays I went for seems overboard but I thought it would maximise my chances of having success.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: cronicr]
    #26351136 - 11/28/19 08:41 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:

I ran my wbs and millet like that off and on for years and if I'm lazy I still do.
It works but when they get starchy it slows shit down.
For consistency I prefer a hands on prep, perfect grain can be a huge key to good colonization IMO
I used volume, cup and a half of millet and 3/4 cup of water .
Toss in the pc and shake while hot




I just went into the process of preparing millet without simmering, i must say i miss simmering, can i do it with millet next time? I don't care the extra work. I just like  that i can steam dry it and when drying it take much less time... at least it was with wheat like that.

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26351140 - 11/28/19 08:44 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah for sure


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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: cronicr]
    #26351181 - 11/28/19 09:30 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Yeah for sure




Also millet won't expand as much when soaking. I measured 1/3 of millet of a quart mason, calculated it for 4 quart jars. Thinking it would expand enough to fill 2/3 in each of the 4 quart jars. I only could fill 2/3 for 3 quarts jars... I wanted for 4 quart jars..... with wheat i remember i just had to measure 1/3 and it would end up being 2/3 of the quart mason jar.

When you do millet... how much dry millet you per quart jar counting the expansion of the grain after soaking. Surely 1/3 is not enough.

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26351203 - 11/28/19 09:58 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Yeah for sure




Also millet won't expand as much when soaking. I measured 1/3 of millet of a quart mason, calculated it for 4 quart jars. Thinking it would expand enough to fill 2/3 in each of the 4 quart jars. I only could fill 2/3 for 3 quarts jars... I wanted for 4 quart jars..... with wheat i remember i just had to measure 1/3 and it would end up being 2/3 of the quart mason jar.

When you do millet... how much dry millet you per quart jar counting the expansion of the grain after soaking. Surely 1/3 is not enough.




I wouldnt even measure "by the jar accounting for expansion".

If you prepping a case of jars, 12 jars, i would just fill 8, maybe 9 if using oats, to the shoulder and use that, rather than measuring out a half jar for each scoop and putting it in the pot.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26352048 - 11/29/19 01:32 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)



I need help, on the left a jar with millet that i soak for 24 hours and on the right a no soak/ no simmer

I don't know but i think the left one is too dry. I don't know why, i made the hand test before loading it to the jars, only a few grains were stuck on my hand. I made a towel test to see if it gets wet. The no soak no simmer grain looks with much more moisture than the left.

EDIT: I don't know, but i think when simmering the grain (any grain) absorbs much more moisture than with soaking, it will expand to the double in size as well, and its also easier to dry. I didn't like soaking only to be honest. I don't feel comfortable to put a culture in the jar of the left.

Edited by Mr. Alien (11/29/19 02:55 PM)

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26352647 - 11/29/19 07:01 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I’ve noticed I have to adjust my grain prep as the seasons change, I am throwing a quick simmer on the back end of the soak now I agree the left jar looks dry


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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26352708 - 11/29/19 07:36 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

But regardless it can fully colonize no? Next time i will do a 10 minute simmer, i'm sure they will expand and hold more moisture on the inside that way and dry faster via steam dry.

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26354490 - 11/30/19 07:09 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome tek! Hoping to try it out soon, but I have a few questions.

How do you keep the sub after pasteurization? Like do you keep it in completely sealed in the ziploc on a shelf for 5 days? I guess what I'm asking is does the pasteurized sub need to breathe at all?

You mention you average around 2.75 ounces dry per tray, I assume thats from clones and everything goes well over all flushes? Asura mentions that his personal best from a tray was 31g dry, I assume maybe he meant one flush now possibly. Only curious because those numbers are very different, granted I'd be happy with 7g if thats all I can get when beginning.

Would it be okay/better to hydrate the straw before mixing with manure? My manure is field capacity out of the bag so I'm scared of overdoing it with the water content if the straw isn't hydrated since I don't work with it often. Any clue how much water is added to one of your half gallon bags?

Do you rehydrate the sub at all like cubes? Or do you literally just do a heavy misting on the casing?

To make the casing, I take the dry ingredients and buffer the ph in the water then combine. Afterwards I still pasteurize and let sit for 5 days. Is all of that right?

Can I let the pasteurized sub/casing sit on the self too long? Also can I pasteurize it for too long?

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26354698 - 11/30/19 09:45 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Alien said:


(Pasteurization time 4 hours).

According to that Image, you can see how population of good microbes builds up over time after the pasteurization has been done, days after. Also it seems that pasteurizing at a constant 150F kills less beneficial microbes population vs 160F.

150F ended up with around 250,000 more population compared to 160F after the same recovery time.  150F needs half the time to reach to the same level of population that 160F reached at the end of the row.




Where is that information from? I'd love to read it. Have you tried this yourself with a sub yet?

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: SimpleCultivator]
    #26354807 - 11/30/19 11:38 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SimpleCultivator said:
Quote:

Mr. Alien said:


(Pasteurization time 4 hours).

According to that Image, you can see how population of good microbes builds up over time after the pasteurization has been done, days after. Also it seems that pasteurizing at a constant 150F kills less beneficial microbes population vs 160F.

150F ended up with around 250,000 more population compared to 160F after the same recovery time.  150F needs half the time to reach to the same level of population that 160F reached at the end of the row.




Where is that information from? I'd love to read it. Have you tried this yourself with a sub yet?




No, i always used pasteurized substrate right after it cooled. Next time i will do what Jake says! I found that image in google, the internet site was talking about straw pasteurization i think....  but it also applies to manure as well :shrug:

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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: SimpleCultivator]
    #26355198 - 12/01/19 09:13 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SimpleCultivator said:
Awesome tek! Hoping to try it out soon, but I have a few questions.

How do you keep the sub after pasteurization? Like do you keep it in completely sealed in the ziploc on a shelf for 5 days? I guess what I'm asking is does the pasteurized sub need to breathe at all? I just keep it in either a jumbo zip lock or I use a spawn bag but yes just seal it and put on shelf.

You mention you average around 2.75 ounces dry per tray, I assume thats from clones and everything goes well over all flushes? Asura mentions that his personal best from a tray was 31g dry, I assume maybe he meant one flush now possibly. Only curious because those numbers are very different, granted I'd be happy with 7g if thats all I can get when beginning. Yes this isn’t as much a average as much as a best case scenario for a tray lol I had a few ISO’s that did thT for me somewhat consistently but I put a lot of work into them first. Average is one good flush and then maybe an additional 35% from additional flushes before contamination sets in and it’s just not worth it. The nice thing about pans is it moves so quickly that it’s nothing to turn over a tray 7 days to colonize the dish 7 more for the jar,  7 to 10 more for the bulk so if you plan ahead it’s easy to always have something next @ bat.

Would it be okay/better to hydrate the straw before mixing with manure? My manure is field capacity out of the bag so I'm scared of overdoing it with the water content if the straw isn't hydrated since I don't work with it often. Any clue how much water is added to one of your half gallon bags? If your manure is that wet to begin with it has not been properly aged and sun bleached. It should be light dry & fluffy. Dense wet poo will cause the myco to go anaerobic, and you won’t get much if anything.

Do you rehydrate the sub at all like cubes? Or do you literally just do a heavy misting on the casing?
You can do either.  I decided which on a case by case basis.
To make the casing, I take the dry ingredients and buffer the ph in the water then combine. Afterwards I still pasteurize and let sit for 5 days. Is all of that right? Yup, don’t over do it with the lime. You test you wet soil mix after it’s all made and adjust from there if you have to. You won’t need more than a teaspoon most likely but peat moss ph varies bag to bag

Can I let the pasteurized sub/casing sit on the self too long? Also can I pasteurize it for too long?


only for f contamination takes hold but usually it just dries out eventually.
As for pasteurizing too long, hmmm idts, I usually do 12-16 hours total @162F but it prolly takes 6 hours just to get the core temp to 162f


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Re: JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens [Re: Jakeoncid419]
    #26441716 - 01/19/20 01:28 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Excellent, thank you

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