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 silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
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 Why do they hate us? 
#2591932 - 04/22/04 05:06 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here's why.
I just found this website. I thought it had an interesting approach to answering this question in that they did it on a country-by-country basis, rather than referring to some elusive "they."
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Anonymous
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 Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2591996 - 04/22/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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that does paint a pretty grim looking picture doesn't it
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2591998 - 04/22/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey, the Swiss don't hate us. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Swami]
#2592021 - 04/22/04 05:30 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good. I'd hate to see a Swiss terrorist. Those pocket-knifes they make can be pretty dangerous.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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 germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592134 - 04/22/04 06:46 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you think that if the US were to reverse such actions as were listed there, they'd hate us less?
For example, South Koreans might hate us for "Beatings, torture, and execution of the regimes' political opponents have been a way of life since the Korean War. Despite such brutal behavior, the US has maintained a first-rate strategic relationship with South Korea, providing successive repressive regimes with extensive US aid." But what should we do ?? Overthrow a repressive regime? We see how popular that is right now in Iraq.
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germin8tionn8ion
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592144 - 04/22/04 06:47 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MEXICO - The US stole Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, and California from Mexico. On February 11, 1847 the Congressional Globe reports: "...We must march from ocean to ocean....We must march from Texas straight to the Pacific Ocean....It is the destiny of the white race, it is the destiny of the Anglo-Saxon Race." [from this site]
Mexico hates us? For something "we" did back in 1847 don't you think they'd harbor just a bit more animosity towards the spanish that raped, pillaged and plundered their land in their quest for gold? And doesn't 1847 sound like a pretty long time to hold a grudge. can you actually find me evidence that "mexico" hates us because of our actions in 1847?
Quote:
Morocco - King Hassan II of Morocco spared himself no earthly delight. He had seven principal palaces, kept 260 horses in just one of his many stables, boarded most of his camels, ostriches, and zebras with his 945 head of cattle at his 1500 acre dairy farm, and he'd got a couple of harems. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate in Morocco is over 20%, and 95% of the population lives in abject poverty, sheltering in makeshift huts in the country's increasingly swollen cities. The US supported Hassan II.
So, if the people live in poverty, have a high unemployment rate, then it's a reason to hate us? Sounds to me like people asking for a-liberation! Seriously tho, what other possible option would you suggest, or would they suggest? Either we support one scumbag that, at least, isn't going to let our enemies set up shop and produce anthrax, or we risk having a much worse scumbag come into power.
How do you think that the US should respond to actions like this, mistakes made in yesteryear? Should we just totally stop interferring in any of these nations affairs? wouldn't that be portrayed as America "dropping the ball", "fleeing when times got tough", and "Running out on the citizens of Morocco, allowing evil warlord to take charge in bloody coup". Or maybe we should foment a revolution, try to install a democracy. Looking through your posts I don't think that you seem to be all that prone to "supporting" the regime change policy. Maybe we should just keep doing it? Oh wait, thats why they already hate us. No matter what we do, we'll be seen as doing the wrong thing in some light, from some ones perspective.
How about you suggest possible solutions to these problems?
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
Do you think that if the US were to reverse such actions as were listed there, they'd hate us less?
Depends on which "they" you're talking about.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Gasp! America supports repressive regimes to prevent them from being overthrown by even more repressive regimes.
Naughty naughty.
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This space for rent
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germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2592229 - 04/22/04 07:12 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I do not condone actions by our government that leave egomaniacal despots in charge of a nation of oppressed, impoverished peoples. However, the choices seem to be
a) Install new leadership, be seen as intruding and setting up 'puppet' governments/imperialism
b) Do nothing, be seen as sitting by idly while nations are being used as massacre grounds
"It's a shit sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite" - Joker, Full Metal Jacket
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2592230 - 04/22/04 07:12 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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How do we know if the regime trying to overthrow the oppressive regime is more oppressive if they're not even a regime yet?
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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germin8tionn8ion
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592246 - 04/22/04 07:19 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
How do we know if the regime trying to overthrow the oppressive regime is more oppressive if they're not even a regime yet?
The CIA can tell us.
I  CIA Intelligence.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
germin8tionn8ion said:
I do not condone actions by our government that leave egomaniacal despots in charge of a nation of oppressed, impoverished peoples. However, the choices seem to be
a) Install new leadership, be seen as intruding and setting up 'puppet' governments/imperialism
b) Do nothing, be seen as sitting by idly while nations are being used as massacre grounds
or...
c) Put international pressure on them to respect human rights in their country.
d) Stop being an accomplices in their suppression of opposition and be neutral to both sides.
e) Place a trade embargo on them.
f) Threaten to cut off all foreign aid to them.
I'm sure there's a few more options I haven't thought of yet.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
How do we know if the regime trying to overthrow the oppressive regime is more oppressive if they're not even a regime yet?
The CIA can tell us.
I CIA Intelligence.
The same CIA that was involved with the Iran-Contra scandal? I hope you'll forgive me if I don't exactly trust their judgement of character.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592263 - 04/22/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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oh yess, economic sanctions work wonders. 
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This space for rent
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2592283 - 04/22/04 07:26 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
oh yess, economic sanctions work wonders.
Hey, it's one of many options. I'm not saying it's the one I'd choose.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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germin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592308 - 04/22/04 07:31 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
or...
c) Put international pressure on them to respect human rights in their country.
d) Stop being an accomplices in their suppression of opposition and be neutral to both sides.
e) Place a trade embargo on them.
f) Threaten to cut off all foreign aid to them.
I'm sure there's a few more options I haven't thought of yet.
In 12 years, when that doesn't work, the leader is still building palaces and the people are still starving, and we invade him, will you promise not to complain about it? Heck, you could even send in UN Inspectors to make sure that they were treating their people fairly, UN inspectors, sanctions, no foreign aid, how could that fail?
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Quote:
germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:
silversoul7 said:
or...
c) Put international pressure on them to respect human rights in their country.
d) Stop being an accomplices in their suppression of opposition and be neutral to both sides.
e) Place a trade embargo on them.
f) Threaten to cut off all foreign aid to them.
I'm sure there's a few more options I haven't thought of yet.
In 12 years, when that doesn't work, the leader is still building palaces and the people are still starving, and we invade him, will you promise not to complain about it? Heck, you could even send in UN Inspectors to make sure that they were treating their people fairly, UN inspectors, sanctions, no foreign aid, how could that fail?
Maybe I'd agree, maybe I wouldn't. Personally, I'm very reluctant to support any sort of offensive military strike, but under certain circumstances, it's possible that I might support such actions. Anyway, if we simply stopped supporting brutal dictatorships and remained neutral to them, I doubt the people there would hate us as much.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592495 - 04/22/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
c) Put international pressure on them to respect human rights in their country.
d) Stop being an accomplices in their suppression of opposition and be neutral to both sides.
e) Place a trade embargo on them.
f) Threaten to cut off all foreign aid to them.
Like North Korea?
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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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JuanMatus
Stranger
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2592582 - 04/22/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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That website barely scratches the surface. The whole reason Castro was successful with his revolution was the corrupt puppet government the US set up in Cuba. the Batista government with US government support allowed the American sugar interests, cigar manufacturers, and the mafia free reign in Cuba. The poor people were kept down with US support. Let's not forget the free, and legitimately democraticaly elected government of Iran that was overthrown by the CIA. They then put the Shaw in power knowing it would be more benefitial to the US than the legitimate government. The real reason for the attack on Pearl Harbor was that the US had cut off all sources of coal and oil to Japan, a country with no energy resources. The reason for this action was that Japan was our biggest economic rival in the western Pacific.
The US only attacks other nations it knows it can beat up. It should be clear now that there were no WMD in Iraq. and if you want to look for the biggest threats to world security other than the US, look at Israel (nuclear state in denial) North Korea, and the ever loose with their nuclear material Pakistan. but you will not see the US go after these states, or China for that matter, because the US is just a big selfish bully. Israel has a stranglehold on the US government, so what ever Israel does is ok. China produces very cheap goods that the American market wants, so turn a blind eye to slave labor used to produce those goods, Pakistan is used as a launching pad into Afganistan, North Korea could launch a nuke. So every body let's kill the guy who threatened Daddy Bush. After all isn't it worth the lives of 700 americans, and countless Iraqi's. So let's give a big cheer for the most dangerous, most selfish, biggest bully in the whole wide world. USA USA USA!
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Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2593276 - 04/22/04 11:48 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Gasp! America supports repressive regimes to prevent them from being overthrown by even more repressive regimes.
How about letting those people decide for themselves what type of government they would like?
Of course we have the power to decide what their governments will be or what their borders will look like. But won't they instinctively resent any outside influence and always fight for their own version of reality? Would we demand any less? Even the freedom to be governed by our own culture, whatever that may be?
By supporting repressive regimes aren't we providing ammunition for the other side?
I say let those Middle Eastern countries decide for themselves how they will be governed. Stop artificially propping up the US friendly goverments. Sink or swim. And when that shit falls apart they can't blame us anymore. And there goes the air right out of the terrorist balloon! There goes their fig leaf!
They got what they wanted and it failed just like every other repressive regime over time.
And they only have themselves to blame.
Have confidence in freedom, my friend.
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2593281 - 04/22/04 11:50 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I say we trade freely with anyone who does not directly attack us (that includes supporting terrorism) and we stay out of other people's affairs. I think that is the only sane solution to our problems.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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silversoul7
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: z@z.com]
#2593345 - 04/23/04 12:06 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
z@z.com said:
I say we trade freely with anyone who does not directly attack us (that includes supporting terrorism) and we stay out of other people's affairs. I think that is the only sane solution to our problems.
I agree. But lets make sure that when trading with oppressive dictatorships, we maintain a business-only relationship.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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z@z.com
Libertarian
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Loc: ATL
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2593398 - 04/23/04 12:23 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
I agree. But lets make sure that when trading with oppressive dictatorships, we maintain a business-only relationship.
If we don't grant any favors to anyone as I propose I doubt that will be a problem.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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zeronio
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2593413 - 04/23/04 12:28 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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I took a deeper look at the text describing US involvment in Bosnia and former Yugoslavia and I think that it's a bit overexagerated.
I used to be a Yugoslavian citizen and I could see what was going on from inside. I don't remember that USA was mentioned often as an important factor in the conflict. The general idea among common people was that USA is not interested because we don't have any oil. 
The final military intervention had good and bad effects but at least it stopped the war.
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: silversoul7]
#2593627 - 04/23/04 01:55 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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There is so much crap on that web page it would take weeks to debunk all of it. Having said that, I will concede some of the information there is probably accurate.
Zeronio has already chimed in with his view on the Balkan situation. By the way, my girlfriend was born in Croatia, though she moved to Germany as a young child and was raised there before travelling around and eventually settling here in the Dominican Republic. She says that her relatives agree with Zeronio's take on the situation.
I have posted here several times (can be found in the PA&L archives) a thorough debunking of the crap about the US involvement in the Dominican Republic after Bosch had been overthrown by a Dominican military junta. The article has got it exactly reversed -- without US intervention there would have been no second free election. Dominicans don't hate the US, they freaking love the US, for exactly that reason.
If the rest of this guy's "reporting" is as accurate as those two instances (the Balkans and the Dominican Republic), it's worth less than a cup of warm donkey spit.
pinky
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Phred]
#2593662 - 04/23/04 02:13 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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How much does a cup of warm donkey spit cost in the Dominican Republic?
Also (seriously) how much do textbooks cost there. Are there alot of self educating people there.
I ask because I'm thinking about inventing the bootleg textbook industry.
500 page textbooks for under a dollar.
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This space for rent
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