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Offlinenealcassidy19
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Providing heat for BRF jars
    #25911693 - 04/02/19 01:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

First time doing this, never grown mushrooms before.  Still cold up north.  The only place for me to hatch a few is in the garage, which is pretty much a constant 55º.  I am trying out a warming mat in a container.  I had to line the lower part of the container with some foil-covered bubble wrap to help insulate and allow the heating mat to maintain 75º without being on constantly. 

It seems to be working very well right now, and I like having some precise control of the heat.




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InvisibleHobbit GDF
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19]
    #25911700 - 04/02/19 01:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I kinda cooked my cakes and stuntted them by having my incubator on a heading pad in between towels. I use it still to hear my closet but I have shelves now so it's raised 3 inch's off of it and it works perfect.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19]
    #25911703 - 04/02/19 01:57 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.


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OfflineAnoobus
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #25911712 - 04/02/19 02:03 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I've heard of good results using an aquarium heater and monotubs. You heat the water that acts as the constant heat source and another container in that holds your jars. Might work for your area. I read about it somewhere on here. I like matheas's thinking though. Cool concept and must be true because mushrooms have been cultivated far longer than we have had access to electricity. Good vibes to you and your grow.

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Offlinenealcassidy19
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25911722 - 04/02/19 02:14 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.




I like that idea also - next time I will just wait until nature warms the air up here.  But I was impatient to begin my first grow!

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25911724 - 04/02/19 02:16 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.



Really? What's your trick to that? I use a good bit of electricity growing mushrooms.

Sterilzing alone requires gas or electricity.

How are you dehydrating? The sun and a stiff breeze?


Op... sometimes we have to buffer temps. Just keep an eye on things. An IR temp gun is good to have. :super:


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Offlinenealcassidy19
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #25911726 - 04/02/19 02:20 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Hobbit GDF said:
I kinda cooked my cakes and stuntted them by having my incubator on a heading pad in between towels. I use it still to hear my closet but I have shelves now so it's raised 3 inch's off of it and it works perfect.




Good idea - maybe I shouldn't have the jars in direct contact with the heating pad (although I am using a thermostat) - I'll raise the jars up a bit.  Thanks.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25911746 - 04/02/19 02:33 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I mean myc does not require electrical help to grow.
I don't count sterilizing a media as growing mushrooms you get what I'm trying to say :super:


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19]
    #25911748 - 04/02/19 02:35 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

There should be space betwwen the jars and any heat source.

Put the thermostat prob between the jars and the heat mat to keep the bottoms of the jars from getting too warm.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25911749 - 04/02/19 02:35 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

At 55F, growth will be very slow without additional heating source.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25911757 - 04/02/19 02:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
I mean myc does not require electrical help to grow.
I don't count sterilizing a media as growing mushrooms you get what I'm trying to say :super:



I just buffer the entire room my spawn is when that room is too cold. So here in the winter my house thermkstat is set on 75°. I also use radient space heaters for when it gets really cold.

So, I'm still gonna disagree with you and say that when your spawn area is below 60-65°F, you need to do something t9 buffer and electric is usually the easiest option.

Even if you have your spawn sitting on a shelf at room temp and you're running heat or ac to keep you comfortable... your myc is enjoying that electric comfort by proxy.


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OfflineSpikeSpiegel
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25911962 - 04/02/19 04:47 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Quote:

Mateah said:
I mean myc does not require electrical help to grow.
I don't count sterilizing a media as growing mushrooms you get what I'm trying to say :super:



I just buffer the entire room my spawn is when that room is too cold. So here in the winter my house thermkstat is set on 75°. I also use radient space heaters for when it gets really cold.

So, I'm still gonna disagree with you and say that when your spawn area is below 60-65°F, you need to do something t9 buffer and electric is usually the easiest option.

Even if you have your spawn sitting on a shelf at room temp and you're running heat or ac to keep you comfortable... your myc is enjoying that electric comfort by proxy.




:whathesaid:

Failing an IR gun get a $1 window thermometer and stick it at the bottom of the jars. If the thermometer gets into the upper 70s then find a way to stand the jars off from the heat source or throttle the amount of heat.

A big box lined with 1/4" styrofoam, a 15 watt reptile heating cable and a light bulb will take you far.

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Offlinenealcassidy19
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: SpikeSpiegel]
    #25912355 - 04/02/19 09:03 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I agree that harsh heat in contact with the bottom of the jars would be bad.  I'll set the jars on some sort of spacer to lift off of the mat, also move the temperature probe to a more useful spot.  Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'll follow up with an update soon.

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19] * 1
    #25912534 - 04/02/19 11:37 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

For my first batch of 16 BRF jars, I put half at room temp and half in a cooler with a couple inches of water (with a few drops of bleach to keep the water from getting nasty) and a $20 fish tank heater set at 82 degrees. The jars in the incubator colonized much faster (7/8 were 100% colonized before any of the room temp jars finished), but there's an added contamination risk, and ultimately I stopped using it after that batch because a little extra speed wasn't worth the extra hassle and risk. In OP's case, though, might be worth trying, since at 55 you'll be waiting months for colonization.

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Durgin]
    #25912542 - 04/02/19 11:47 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think I've ever read about anybody on here having good results trying to use a heating device.

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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mrgreen42]
    #25912568 - 04/03/19 12:05 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

That's mostly why I stopped - it actually worked pretty well in my case, but I figured I just got lucky. The speed difference was really dramatic though. (I live in a northern climate, so the room temp jars were probably on the low side.)

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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mrgreen42] * 1
    #25912656 - 04/03/19 01:30 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I mean, 10-15 years ago everyone was incubating their BRF cakes. Not saying it's a good method, but some people obviously grew some shrooms.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25912714 - 04/03/19 03:07 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Quote:

Mateah said:
You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.



Really? What's your trick to that? I use a good bit of electricity growing mushrooms.

Sterilzing alone requires gas or electricity.

How are you dehydrating? The sun and a stiff breeze?


Op... sometimes we have to buffer temps. Just keep an eye on things. An IR temp gun is good to have. :super:



With you logic you could also say that myc pays rent in your house because it lives in the house where you pay rent.
But I wouldn't call that myc is paying rent.
If you're heating your house you're doing it for yourself and myc is enjoying
that same comfort because you both live in room temp.
You're not doing anything extra electrical for the myc that you otherwise wouldn't have done anyway right?


If someone chooses to cultivate mushrooms in 12C outdoor instead of indoor at room temp then it won't be smooth sailing
and especially for a noob.
It literally takes one cubic foot of space to colonize and fruit 5 BRF cakes.
If you don't have a cubic foot of space to cultivate mushrooms then maybe you should wait until you are able to.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: poisoned]
    #25912719 - 04/03/19 03:23 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
I mean, 10-15 years ago everyone was incubating their BRF cakes. Not saying it's a good method, but some people obviously grew some shrooms.




The main problem with heating jars is it got the insides too hot, which bred infections.

Im going to heat my PF jars next winter since my room gets below 50F.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25912738 - 04/03/19 03:50 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

And you will heat you FC as well when fruiting?
I can not fathom living in a 'room temp' that's below 10C, I'd die. That's almost like a fridge.:lol:
My room is 25C lol


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Edited by Mateja (04/03/19 03:53 AM)

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25912742 - 04/03/19 03:53 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Thats below freezing! Just playinnn...is 25C an ideal temp?

I would only heat the jars. The heat from the lamp for fruiting i use is enough.

However, i plan on experimenting with heated fruiting conditions. I think i have a hunch....

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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #25913197 - 04/03/19 09:03 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
The main problem with heating jars is it got the insides too hot, which bred infections.





Yeah, that's why I stopped after my first batch of brf jars. From what I gather they're more resistant to contamination than grain in the first place, and perhaps the verm content helps moderate the heat generation compared to straight grain? But mostly, they're so cheap and easy to make that if I lost a couple it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd actually consider trying it again for BRF (the heated jars colonized about 10-12 days faster on average), but not for grain.

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OfflineSpikeSpiegel
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mrgreen42]
    #25914739 - 04/04/19 02:31 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mrgreen42 said:
I don't think I've ever read about anybody on here having good results trying to use a heating device.




That might be because you hear from people who fail a lot more than those who succeed. "You never hear from happy customers, only angry ones" kind of thing.

There are threads on here with TC's chiming in that they use or have used heat during colonization.

People get bad results from incubators because either their technique is poor anyway and the extra heat just accelerates the inevitable, or because they don't test their heat sources well enough before using theme to establish that nothing will go wrong. Hot pockets inside the incubator, overheating the incubator, getting jars too close to the heat source, misreading temperature readings, etc. There are a lot of ways to misuse added heat and screw something up.

But if you live in a place where your whole house is 50-60 for months at a time and you want to grow, it's stupid not to do something about it. If all incubators and supplementation of heat during colonization were a problem then you'd hear of a lot more failures from people in hot climates who let their jars colonize naturally in ambient temps in the high 70s and low 80s, of whom there are plenty. There would probably be teks explaining how people in hot places can cool down their jars while colonizing.

Spend the proper time dialing in a good incubator and it'll treat you very well.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: SpikeSpiegel]
    #25914828 - 04/04/19 04:10 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge?
If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well.
So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars! :popcorn:


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OfflineSpikeSpiegel
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25915701 - 04/04/19 03:30 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge?
If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well.
So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars! :popcorn:




There are bunch of ways to do it. A few ideas that can be tested/mixed/matched:

Cakes:
Put a waterproof low-watt reptile heating cable at the bottom of the chamber, backfill with perlite, use something like a thin styrofoam sheet with holes in it as a heat buffer if needed
Put a low-watt heating mat under the chamber
Insulate a larger chamber with thin styrofoam sheeting, add a low-watt heat source, stand the cakes off from the heat as needed, stick an LED lightbulb into the top of the container
Build one of those heat bombs, which is an aquarium heater glued and waterproofed to the inside of a big plastic or glass bottle, and surround it with cakes like a bunch of heatseeking worshipers praying to their deity in a circular ceremony

Bulk:
Run a small space heater or portable radiator in a closet on a timer
Drape a blanket or two over the space under a desk or table against a wall or in a corner and stick a little heater in there on a thermostat
Gut, insulate and heat a dresser or chest of drawers
If you're more industrious build a box out of luan or just insulated sheeting, if it's well insulated you don't need much of a heat source

The closer and more directly applied your heat source is to whatever you're doing with it, incubating or fruiting, the more it will affect the culture and spawn/substrate directly - drying out grains, moving water around, etc. So the best way to do any of it by far is to just heat a room and adapt other variables to that.

In all cases the trick is to be SAFE with your heat sources and mindful of the temperatures you're creating in the environment.

I'm pretty sure most people go wrong with adding heat because it's a variable that needs attending to, or dialing in, or both, just like people go wrong with moisture content and humidity and air exchange, which also need attention and/or dialing in. Adding heat does complicate the process. It will throw off other variables that are different without an artificial heat source. So the heating and attention to other variables all need to be respected.

That said people probably always talk about adding heat during colonization and not fruiting because fruiting in 60F isn't quite as horrible as colonizing in it. It's still slow as shit and sucks compared to fruiting at 70 but the momentum of a strong culture by the time it gets to fruiting will move it along better than a couple wedges of agar onto grains. That shit takes forever below 60-62F.

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25916110 - 04/04/19 06:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Quote:

LotKid said:
Quote:

Mateah said:
You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.



Really? What's your trick to that? I use a good bit of electricity growing mushrooms.

Sterilzing alone requires gas or electricity.

How are you dehydrating? The sun and a stiff breeze?


Op... sometimes we have to buffer temps. Just keep an eye on things. An IR temp gun is good to have. :super:



With you logic you could also say that myc pays rent in your house because it lives in the house where you pay rent.
But I wouldn't call that myc is paying rent.
If you're heating your house you're doing it for yourself and myc is enjoying
that same comfort because you both live in room temp.
You're not doing anything extra electrical for the myc that you otherwise wouldn't have done anyway right?


If someone chooses to cultivate mushrooms in 12C outdoor instead of indoor at room temp then it won't be smooth sailing
and especially for a noob.
It literally takes one cubic foot of space to colonize and fruit 5 BRF cakes.
If you don't have a cubic foot of space to cultivate mushrooms then maybe you should wait until you are able to.



My logic doesn't lead to myc paying rent just because it's enoying your room temp. I don't know how you got that. But in the winter I buffer my spawn rooms to higher temp than what is required for my comfort. So yes, keeping my spawn happy means using more electricity than I would use soley for my comfort. So yes, I heat my house more to keep my projects comfortable.

And I use more than 1 cubic foot of space for my spawn. But hey, what do I know about running spawn anyway, right?



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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25916114 - 04/04/19 06:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge?
If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well.
So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars! :popcorn:



Yes I buffer my fruiting rooms the same way. With a radiant heater. It's actually quite common.

I can't understand how you're unfamilar with such basic and common practices.


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Offlinenealcassidy19
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid] * 1
    #25932847 - 04/13/19 05:02 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Update:  approx 10 days after inoculation.  Everything going as planned.  These are two of five 1/2 pint jars.  All are approximately the same amount of progress.




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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19]
    #25932858 - 04/13/19 05:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Clarification on why I chose to heat with a pad.  This is being done in a workshop / outbuilding that is kept at 55º when it is colder than that outside.  I could jack the heat up to 75º, but why heat 9600 cubic feet of space when I only need two cubic feet to be that warm at this point?

I am guessing that in a week or two, when the jars are 100% colonized and almost ready to go to fruiting, it will be in the 60s outside and that, combined with the solar gain from having three south-facing windows in the workshop, will make it unnecessary to provide extra heat to the grow.

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19]
    #25932860 - 04/13/19 05:10 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

They look healthy to me.

And I agree.... Buffer the area that needs it and as much is needed to keep things happy.

I've used heating pads in tubs to buffer small amounts of spawn.


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid] * 1
    #25932986 - 04/13/19 06:34 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

That incubation room is fuckin sweeet 👀

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25932989 - 04/13/19 06:36 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Colonization not incubation. :wink:


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25932998 - 04/13/19 06:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Either way bro it’s freakin sweet 😬

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25933000 - 04/13/19 06:43 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

:thanx:


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OfflineJohnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933003 - 04/13/19 06:45 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

This is only my third attempt doing this so I’m still picking up on the terminology 😅

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25933010 - 04/13/19 06:50 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

It's all good. You'll get it. But yeah... we're trying to get away from the "incubation" thing.

It seems to imply using higher temps than are required.




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Edited by LotKid (04/13/19 06:56 PM)

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933017 - 04/13/19 06:54 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

'incubation' implies an additional process besides colonization, but there is no other process needed.


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OfflineJohnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933019 - 04/13/19 06:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Gotcha bud thanks for the info!

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25933021 - 04/13/19 06:56 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

But it is okay to heat and cool as required to keep temps in the sweet spot. As long as you're in the 70's for colonization and fruiting... it's all on your skills from there. :super:


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25933030 - 04/13/19 07:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Johnieweedseed said:
Gotcha bud thanks for the info!





Quote:

Mateah said:
'incubation' implies an additional process besides colonization, but there is no other process needed.



Back in the day I used to use "incubation" to help facilitate the "colonization" process. So I have never considered it an extra step or process. That's why I say that using the word "incubation" implies using higher temps. And if you search "incubation" that's what you're gonna get.... old school TIT setups using aquarium heaters and saying keep your jars @ 86F. Am I guilty of doing that nonsense for longer than I care to admit? You fucking right I am.

Words are important when that's all we're dealing with here...


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933035 - 04/13/19 07:14 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Quote:

Johnieweedseed said:
Gotcha bud thanks for the info!





Quote:

Mateah said:
'incubation' implies an additional process besides colonization, but there is no other process needed.



Back in the day I used to use "incubation" to help facilitate the "colonization" process. So I have never considered it an extra step or process. That's why I say that using the word "incubation" implies using higher temps. And if you search "incubation" that's what you're gonna get.... old school TIT setups using aquarium heaters and saying keep your jars @ 86F. Am I guilty of doing that nonsense for longer than I care to admit? You fucking right I am.

Words are important when that's all we're dealing with here...



Word! :rofl:


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Edited by Mateja (04/13/19 07:15 PM)

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OfflineJohnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933045 - 04/13/19 07:26 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Damnit bro!! What should my temps be for colonization? That’s what I’ve read is about 80.. mine have been 71 at lowest and high of 79 is that about in range? Not trying to hijack this thread just seems like you know what you’re doing

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25933049 - 04/13/19 07:28 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

That's the optimal range basically :thumbup:


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
    #25933074 - 04/13/19 07:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Awesome man thank you guys 🥳

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed] * 1
    #25933345 - 04/13/19 11:05 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Shoot for the low 70's(F) and it's hard to go wrong. :thumbup:


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25933462 - 04/14/19 12:54 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed :thumbup:

Keep it Tropical.

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25933630 - 04/14/19 06:39 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Good shit guys thanks again

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Johnieweedseed]
    #25963078 - 04/29/19 05:36 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

It's been almost four weeks now.  First five 1/2 pint jars are moving along.  The heated tub environment has worked well - constant 75º using a thermostat-regulated heating pad.  I have included a couple photos in support of two questions:

1. Should I be waiting for the white color to also spread across the bottom?  The mycelium have spread all the way around the outer circumference of the jars, but not across the bottoms.  Even though the heat at bottom of jars is only 75º, could the fact that they are touching the heating pad be the reason that the mycelium isn't spreading across the bottom?  The cakes have shrunken away from the sides, and there is still sufficient moisture inside the jars.  If these jars are 90% colonized otherwise, then I am tempted to take the cakes out, crumble them and start a simple coir tub.

2.  There appears to be a small pin starting near the top edge of the jar pictured on the right (see photo).  Is that likely / possible?  The only reasons it could be pinning already are that I am allowing the jars to see too much light (it's to the side of a window, with indirect light from outside filtering in to the jars).  Or they are getting too much oxygen (I have left the four inoculation holes open on each jar.  Holes are 1/16").  Or that isn't a pin.


Edited by nealcassidy19 (04/29/19 05:46 PM)

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19] * 1
    #25963436 - 04/29/19 09:21 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

There should be a gap between the jars and the heat mat. Other wise the bottoms of the jars will get too hot. They should be 100% colonized before birthing and fruiting.


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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
    #25963490 - 04/29/19 10:01 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the input.  I  was being stubborn about not thinking I need separation between the warming mat and the bottom of the jars.  I figured that if the thermostat probe was in direct contact with the warming mat, that setting it to 75º would ensure that the jars didn't overheat.

But I think that the jars are acting as a heat sink and getting warmer than the thermostat says.

It would explain why the inside bottoms of the jars seem more dry than the rest of the substrate.  I'll add the spacer and see if that helps and allows some of the moisture further up in the substrate trickle down to the bottom.

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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: nealcassidy19] * 1
    #25963622 - 04/29/19 11:46 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Get a small wire cookie cooling rack. :thumbup:


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