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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
#25912742 - 04/03/19 03:53 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thats below freezing! Just playinnn...is 25C an ideal temp?
I would only heat the jars. The heat from the lamp for fruiting i use is enough.
However, i plan on experimenting with heated fruiting conditions. I think i have a hunch....
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist



Registered: 02/23/19
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: The main problem with heating jars is it got the insides too hot, which bred infections.
Yeah, that's why I stopped after my first batch of brf jars. From what I gather they're more resistant to contamination than grain in the first place, and perhaps the verm content helps moderate the heat generation compared to straight grain? But mostly, they're so cheap and easy to make that if I lost a couple it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd actually consider trying it again for BRF (the heated jars colonized about 10-12 days faster on average), but not for grain.
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SpikeSpiegel
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Registered: 07/30/18
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mrgreen42]
#25914739 - 04/04/19 02:31 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mrgreen42 said: I don't think I've ever read about anybody on here having good results trying to use a heating device.
That might be because you hear from people who fail a lot more than those who succeed. "You never hear from happy customers, only angry ones" kind of thing.
There are threads on here with TC's chiming in that they use or have used heat during colonization.
People get bad results from incubators because either their technique is poor anyway and the extra heat just accelerates the inevitable, or because they don't test their heat sources well enough before using theme to establish that nothing will go wrong. Hot pockets inside the incubator, overheating the incubator, getting jars too close to the heat source, misreading temperature readings, etc. There are a lot of ways to misuse added heat and screw something up.
But if you live in a place where your whole house is 50-60 for months at a time and you want to grow, it's stupid not to do something about it. If all incubators and supplementation of heat during colonization were a problem then you'd hear of a lot more failures from people in hot climates who let their jars colonize naturally in ambient temps in the high 70s and low 80s, of whom there are plenty. There would probably be teks explaining how people in hot places can cool down their jars while colonizing.
Spend the proper time dialing in a good incubator and it'll treat you very well.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge? If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well. So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars!
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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SpikeSpiegel
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
#25915701 - 04/04/19 03:30 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge? If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well. So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars! 
There are bunch of ways to do it. A few ideas that can be tested/mixed/matched:
Cakes: Put a waterproof low-watt reptile heating cable at the bottom of the chamber, backfill with perlite, use something like a thin styrofoam sheet with holes in it as a heat buffer if needed Put a low-watt heating mat under the chamber Insulate a larger chamber with thin styrofoam sheeting, add a low-watt heat source, stand the cakes off from the heat as needed, stick an LED lightbulb into the top of the container Build one of those heat bombs, which is an aquarium heater glued and waterproofed to the inside of a big plastic or glass bottle, and surround it with cakes like a bunch of heatseeking worshipers praying to their deity in a circular ceremony
Bulk: Run a small space heater or portable radiator in a closet on a timer Drape a blanket or two over the space under a desk or table against a wall or in a corner and stick a little heater in there on a thermostat Gut, insulate and heat a dresser or chest of drawers If you're more industrious build a box out of luan or just insulated sheeting, if it's well insulated you don't need much of a heat source
The closer and more directly applied your heat source is to whatever you're doing with it, incubating or fruiting, the more it will affect the culture and spawn/substrate directly - drying out grains, moving water around, etc. So the best way to do any of it by far is to just heat a room and adapt other variables to that.
In all cases the trick is to be SAFE with your heat sources and mindful of the temperatures you're creating in the environment.
I'm pretty sure most people go wrong with adding heat because it's a variable that needs attending to, or dialing in, or both, just like people go wrong with moisture content and humidity and air exchange, which also need attention and/or dialing in. Adding heat does complicate the process. It will throw off other variables that are different without an artificial heat source. So the heating and attention to other variables all need to be respected.
That said people probably always talk about adding heat during colonization and not fruiting because fruiting in 60F isn't quite as horrible as colonizing in it. It's still slow as shit and sucks compared to fruiting at 70 but the momentum of a strong culture by the time it gets to fruiting will move it along better than a couple wedges of agar onto grains. That shit takes forever below 60-62F.
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LotKid
Never.Trust.A.Prankster


Registered: 01/07/17
Posts: 8,169
Loc: Shakedown St.
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
#25916110 - 04/04/19 06:51 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
LotKid said:
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Mateah said: You don't need electricity to grow mushrooms ever, that just gets in the way.
Really? What's your trick to that? I use a good bit of electricity growing mushrooms.
Sterilzing alone requires gas or electricity.
How are you dehydrating? The sun and a stiff breeze?
Op... sometimes we have to buffer temps. Just keep an eye on things. An IR temp gun is good to have. 
With you logic you could also say that myc pays rent in your house because it lives in the house where you pay rent. But I wouldn't call that myc is paying rent. If you're heating your house you're doing it for yourself and myc is enjoying that same comfort because you both live in room temp. You're not doing anything extra electrical for the myc that you otherwise wouldn't have done anyway right?
If someone chooses to cultivate mushrooms in 12C outdoor instead of indoor at room temp then it won't be smooth sailing and especially for a noob. It literally takes one cubic foot of space to colonize and fruit 5 BRF cakes. If you don't have a cubic foot of space to cultivate mushrooms then maybe you should wait until you are able to.
My logic doesn't lead to myc paying rent just because it's enoying your room temp. I don't know how you got that. But in the winter I buffer my spawn rooms to higher temp than what is required for my comfort. So yes, keeping my spawn happy means using more electricity than I would use soley for my comfort. So yes, I heat my house more to keep my projects comfortable.
And I use more than 1 cubic foot of space for my spawn. But hey, what do I know about running spawn anyway, right?
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LotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
#25916114 - 04/04/19 06:53 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Why do growers just mention incubation/colonization when they talk about their houses being a fridge? If you need heat to colonize cakes/substrates then you will surely need it to fruit as well. So I wanna hear about heating FC's from all of you who recommend heating colonizing jars! 
Yes I buffer my fruiting rooms the same way. With a radiant heater. It's actually quite common.
I can't understand how you're unfamilar with such basic and common practices.
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nealcassidy19
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Registered: 12/01/18
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid] 1
#25932847 - 04/13/19 05:02 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Update: approx 10 days after inoculation. Everything going as planned. These are two of five 1/2 pint jars. All are approximately the same amount of progress.

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nealcassidy19
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Registered: 12/01/18
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Clarification on why I chose to heat with a pad. This is being done in a workshop / outbuilding that is kept at 55º when it is colder than that outside. I could jack the heat up to 75º, but why heat 9600 cubic feet of space when I only need two cubic feet to be that warm at this point?
I am guessing that in a week or two, when the jars are 100% colonized and almost ready to go to fruiting, it will be in the 60s outside and that, combined with the solar gain from having three south-facing windows in the workshop, will make it unnecessary to provide extra heat to the grow.
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LotKid
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Registered: 01/07/17
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They look healthy to me.
And I agree.... Buffer the area that needs it and as much is needed to keep things happy.
I've used heating pads in tubs to buffer small amounts of spawn.
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Johnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid] 1
#25932986 - 04/13/19 06:34 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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That incubation room is fuckin sweeet 👀
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LotKid
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Colonization not incubation.
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Johnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
#25932998 - 04/13/19 06:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Either way bro it’s freakin sweet 😬
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LotKid
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Johnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
#25933003 - 04/13/19 06:45 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is only my third attempt doing this so I’m still picking up on the terminology 😅
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LotKid
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It's all good. You'll get it. But yeah... we're trying to get away from the "incubation" thing.
It seems to imply using higher temps than are required.
Edited by LotKid (04/13/19 06:56 PM)
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
#25933017 - 04/13/19 06:54 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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'incubation' implies an additional process besides colonization, but there is no other process needed.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Johnieweedseed
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: LotKid]
#25933019 - 04/13/19 06:55 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Gotcha bud thanks for the info!
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LotKid
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But it is okay to heat and cool as required to keep temps in the sweet spot. As long as you're in the 70's for colonization and fruiting... it's all on your skills from there.
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LotKid
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Re: Providing heat for BRF jars [Re: Mateja]
#25933030 - 04/13/19 07:08 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Johnieweedseed said: Gotcha bud thanks for the info!

Quote:
Mateah said: 'incubation' implies an additional process besides colonization, but there is no other process needed.
Back in the day I used to use "incubation" to help facilitate the "colonization" process. So I have never considered it an extra step or process. That's why I say that using the word "incubation" implies using higher temps. And if you search "incubation" that's what you're gonna get.... old school TIT setups using aquarium heaters and saying keep your jars @ 86F. Am I guilty of doing that nonsense for longer than I care to admit? You fucking right I am.
Words are important when that's all we're dealing with here...
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