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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#25890889 - 03/22/19 07:19 PM (5 years, 7 days ago) |
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"listen you fuckers. you screwheads. here is a man who would not take it anymore. a man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. here is someone who stood up." - travis bickle
who's in charge here? has this community project yet begun? also where do i send cash? i'm almost at my foto upload limit.
intent: an n=1 experiment to investgate the envelope of prepared grain jar shelf life.
six jars total. racehorse oats. bod prep. jars cooked no later than 2/1, probably the week before. can't recall the exact date.
sterilizer cycle: automated control, varying between 17 and 22 psi for two hours following a ten minute vent. allowed to fully cool before opening the sterilizer and checking lids for stiction.
stored, uncovered and unrefrigerated, on a rack in the lab since removing from the sterilizer.
inoculated 3/12 with a half plate each of a T2 culture from a wild cube print. tar shaken all the way out of them.
2/1-3/12 is about 5.5 weeks. fotos taken 3/22. ten days post inoculation.
anticipate mid colonization shake in three to five days.
just decided to move this to a journal. i get annoyed having to cruise long threads to piece together particular projects.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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ttching8475
Spawn
Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 739
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-------------------- LAGM 2.022
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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20190327 all but one jar seem just fine. a couple are probably as good as i've ever done. that one just didn't colonize very much. still some, and it looked fine, just not quick. shook them all tonight.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist
Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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Thank you for your service, sir.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: Durgin]
#25903483 - 03/29/19 08:04 AM (5 years, 1 day ago) |
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balls to that. ;] skeptics are going to say it means nothing, no matter what the outcome.
just trying to keep this thought alive. people been talking about doing this. stareatclouds is talking about formalizing this kind of experimentation. decided instead of asking how/if this is going, i'm doing my own thing, and hopefully others do the same. or at least the leaderishtypepeople see there's interest and consider lending their expertise and constructive criticism. meanwhile, i'm bascially threadjacking.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist
Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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I'm eager to see it play out. I knocked up about 15 jars a couple weeks ago that had been sitting in the fridge for 2-3 weeks, and so far I've lost one to mold but the rest are going strong. That seems like a relatively normal result (and if anything, I'd blame my noob skills for the one failure), but time will tell. Most of them are being used for sclerotia, so they're going to be hanging out for a while, and if the waiting hurt them it'll come out eventually.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: Durgin] 2
#25904840 - 03/29/19 08:48 PM (5 years, 15 hours ago) |
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good on ya, man. all in this together.
here's about 48 hours after the shake.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist
Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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Someday I hope you'll share how you get your grains to look so same damned perfect. They're like the Abercrombie models of grains.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: Durgin]
#25905411 - 03/30/19 07:58 AM (5 years, 3 hours ago) |
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easy. straight bodhisatta oats method. no rinse. dried overnight-ish on a giant pet screen elevated a few inches above a giant table. 4.5lbs dry oats for ten 1-liter mason jars. would use less for g2g receiving jars, but i don't do g2g. who needs that much mush?
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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kratom_redmomd
Kratom Lover
Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 411
Loc: Hiking Cascadia
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Awesome recovery!
-------------------- "If the goal is to ride the bike, why is everyone arguing about which bike to ride? We are all bike riders. Ride your bike." -Unknown If I was going to destroy a nation, first I would destroy its language. -Confusious ¿Hablas Inglés?
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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yeah it's looking pretty ok. culture A is faster than the other two, and one of these jars was noticably behind the rest when i shook them. since i'm make-pretending to be a scientist about this, and obviously don't really know what i'm doing, i decided to shake them and spawn them all together, rather than at some subjectively determined %colonization. they're 19 days since inoculation in the last foto.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist
Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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Looking nice and clean. Love the super bright white myc.
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Vibe_Enthusiast
Mushroom Technician
Registered: 10/16/18
Posts: 2,420
Loc: GPS signal lost..
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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What variety is that?
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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it's from a wild cubensis print sent to me from a member. i'm told it was collected on a family ranch somewhere in south carolina.
i'm trying to stifle any hope or emotional engagement in this project. i'm not a scientist, but i play one on the internet.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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3/29
3/31
4/2
4/5
spawning soon. planning to put each jar in its own shoebox at about 1:2 straight coir, bodhi prep. probably in the tent to fruit.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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Durgin
Amateur Mad Scientist
Registered: 02/23/19
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
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That really is straight-up grain porn.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: Durgin]
#25919256 - 04/06/19 11:03 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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hey thanks man. they do look better than any i've done before. i guess it's safe to conclude that the age of those jars didn't impede colonization in any meaningful way. even the straggler is near ready to spawn.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: PC'd Grain - Life Span? [Re: Mad Season]
#25919523 - 04/06/19 02:20 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Another thought to consider is if grains could get truly sterile, why aren't there any grains freshly harvested, then canned? It would be nice af to get fresh, hydrated grains. It would then mean we wouldn't need to hydrate, and potentially if people did things right, wouldn't need to PC. However, it's clear that it won't work. Companies know grains won't last like that.
how much would you be willing to pay? probably not enough to cover the costs of the lengthy processing time they would need compared to the usual tins of fully submerged food, large tins of food need significantly longer times. There is not much of a market, and as you know some companies do sell PF jars or bags of hydrated grain, for high prices. I had a thread asking about treating dry grains, they would be cheaper to ship as they are not hydrated or in heavy tins. I wondered if they could be irradiated dry, and then a simply hydration and steaming might be enough for us to use. I also wondered if roasted grains might be feasible to just steam and use, I have grown on highly roasted grains before. I was recommending "easy cook" dry rice before as it has already usually gone through a heat treatment so I reckon it would have a better chance.
We already can easily get suitable hydrated grains which are not fully submerged -pouches of cooked rice. I have seen numerous threads of grows with them with some success. I have colonised tinned peas, corn and kidney beans before, I emptied them out and rinsed and microwaved them in jars to both heat them as they were exposed to contams -but also to drive off moisture. Hippie3 grew on tinned hominy. I see other grains in pouches these days, but they would be too expensive for anybody doing a big grow.
I have done quite a few tests of double heat treating, like cooking whole grains fully submerged in water at 15-28psi, when while still hot taking them out and loading jars and reheating them, either steaming but usually microwaving. If you weigh your grains you can calculate what water content you are at. By driving off moisture after the initial heat treating it means they can have higher hydration to begin with so I think it should help.
Some grains are more suitable, like rye grass seed, which is very thin and does not really explode when overhydrated and/or exposed to high pressure. You can cook up a load of it in a PC, then strain it off and load into jars. Moisture can be squeezed out but I find it still stays too hydrated. These could be steamed or microwaved. If you need to drive off moisture they could be placed on heating pads. This is far too much hassle for many people but might suit some people, like myself. It could be used as a test jar as discussed, leave it highly hydrated for a long time and see what happens, then dry it out months later on a heat pad or oven. I have found fully sealed jars which must be over a decade old which look OK.
somebody asked what happens to grain cooked for a long time, or high psi.
this is popcorn in a sealed jar with no filter
after 19hours sitting in water at 97C
and after 115hours at 97C
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