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OfflineFrog
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Heart Attack
    #2589547 - 04/22/04 02:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Where are feelings located? You hear people saying that their hearts hurt when love is lost. Or they say their stomachs hurt. Personally, for me, when something hurts emotionally, my brain hurts.

So. Tell me. When something hurts emotionally, where does it hurt, and why?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589638 - 04/22/04 02:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

it hurts my "soul".


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589663 - 04/22/04 03:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, to me it feels almost like it hurts somewhere inside ... somewhere deep.  Possibly the soul?

Although I guess it might also depend on how traumatic a particular situation is..

Does your brain also hurt when your feeling love?  :smirk:


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589712 - 04/22/04 03:31 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

When my heart was broken, I literally felt pain in my chest where my heart is centered. I said to myself, "Ah hah, this is why they call it heart broken!"


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589721 - 04/22/04 03:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

For me whenever I've had my feelings hurt, you know when you get the shivers and goosebumps follow after it???

I get that feeling in my chest around my heart, but not the goosebumpbs. It's a cold feeling...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589941 - 04/22/04 07:17 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

When a mother suddenly recieves the news that as a causalty of war her son has died in battle, she will show all the biochemical changes characteristic of stress. Under stress, there is a need for bodily movement. In addition, the mucous lining of the stomach starts to dissolve, the body loses weight, the adrenal glands lose their store of hormones, and the individual suffers from insomnia. These are all nonspecific responses. However, the specific effect of that news is great pain and suffering.

Here's the kicker: A few years later this same son walks into her living room, perfectly healthy and completely intact. The news had been false; nothing happened to him. The mother will experience extreme joy. The specific effects of this experience are very pleasant. However, the nonspecific stress is just the same as in the case of bad news! It is not the physical stimulus that makes the difference; it is the attitude with which an individual takes it.

I have no doubt that there are people who've died of a 'broken heart'.. Incredible stress and harsh shocks on the mind will take a very hard psychosomatic toll on the body.

As for the personal question; in the past, I have felt my heart-area/chest-area hurt when I was having an emotionally hard time, or heart break, psychosomatically speaking.



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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589964 - 04/22/04 07:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I know someone who died of a broken heart. Her daughter commited suicide. After a couple of months of hurt, her heart just stopped beating.

Very sad.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2589988 - 04/22/04 08:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Aside from physical neurological and neuroanatomical considerations (e.g.., subcortical hypothalamic-amygdalic '4 F' functions [feeding, fighting, fleeing & 'mating'], not to mention frontal lobe and other cortical areas), humans operate on psychological, archetypal and spiritual levels, if one subscribes to certain 'metatheories.'

Chakra psychology is quite a bit older and wiser than Western psychological theories which are mutually exclusive of one another. Chakra psychology recognizes that human experience is 'multidimensional' and within its scope are psychophysical loci of feeling-phenomena. Being 'scared shitless' is a psychophysical reponse of the anal chakra due to fear. This chakra, on the physical level has to do with self-preservation, fear of death, and then, some involvement with anal-genital eroticism, for example the anal-sadistic type. The genital chakra is known for its domain of feelings and accompanying emotions. Gut feelings, anger, manipulation (from Indo-European root for this Manipura chakra), fire, destruction is symbolized in the classic yoga treatises by 3 swastikas!
The Heart has additional depths of meaning and experience in classical Yoga as well as Kabbala, Tibetan Buddhist Yoga, Hopi Indian religion, ancient Egyptian religion and the Bible. It is the 'seat of the mind,' the point of intersection of Heaven and Earth, Atman, Sacred Heart, Heart cave, Diamond Body, Inner Man, Love. Mercy. Compassion. etc. Both earthly and spiritual dimensions are contacted through the portal/door of the Heart.
The throat center responds to vibrations, like violin music, and sublime emotional states which give us a 'lump in the throat,' accompanied at times by tears. It is the locus of Knowledge (Kabbala), Knowledge-Holding Deities in Tibetan Buddhism, the lips that are crossed before the reading of the Gospel in Catholic liturgy, between head and heart. Logos/Word/Sound/AH. The Head Chakras become even more sublime - sound becomes light. Haloes. Enlightenment. Nimbus. Light which cascades through Throat into Heart to create the Enlightened vehicles of Body, Speech and Mind (OM-AH-HUM) - Head-Throat-Heart.

Just some examples of Chakra psychology - loci of feelings-emotions-life experienced in our auric bodies, our 'inner [hu]man' as opposed to our physical bodies. In all major traditions, the Heart (He Art) is the most important, central spiritual organ or place of life - evident on the physical plane most obviously by its beat or rhythm of life. Metaphor. Subjectivity. Experience.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2590290 - 04/22/04 10:53 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

when my heart breaks it feels like being punched just below the sternum... constantly... for weeks...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2591001 - 04/22/04 02:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I think it's below the sternum, too. And in my chest cavity, I guess where the heart resides. And my head thinks too much about everything.

And it's all chemical, eh, Skorpivo? And Markos, that was a great post.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Anonymous

Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2591013 - 04/22/04 02:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i say its the ego, without an ego, we know no pain, we know no fear, all we got is love, in which you think you have lost, but is always right there to be felt.

of course it hurts to lose someone you love, but isnt it kind of selfish? why are we always thinking about ourselves? what about them?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: ]
    #2591517 - 04/22/04 05:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So what about "them", Kotton?? They probably have their own hurt, as well, I imagine, but there's not much I can do about that, is there?

What's wrong with having an ego? Having an ego is a good thing. An ego is what makes me think I can go out and start a business, and be successful.

What is selfish about feeling pain in losing someone that you love? Wouldn't that be kind of weird, to feel nothing but happiness?

Loss of ego wouldn't just mean not feeling pain when losing a loved one. Loss of ego would also mean not feeling happy, right? Because isn't it just my ego making me think I am happy, because aren't we usually happy when something affects us in a positive way? That sounds kind of selfish to me, too.

IMO, ego gets in the way when someone does something mean or retributive during a break-up, because all they can do is think of their own pain, and not the pain the otehr might be experiencing, if any. Ego is out of the way when even though it hurts, you are still kind to the person with whom you are no longer going to be involved.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2591982 - 04/22/04 07:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

My hear hurts a lot. I wonder if this is an emotional response, or something physical. The doctors say there is nothing wrong with me. Besides having a bronchial infection... my chest will get tight at times. Sometimes my whole body hurts, my stomach will hurt. My brain races as if its going haywire.

Ive often wondered if  :heartpump: can flat line ___________ from emotional pain.


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Anonymous

Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2592118 - 04/22/04 08:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What is selfish about feeling pain in losing someone that you love?

Wouldn't that be kind of weird, to feel nothing but happiness?




because your only thinking about yourself, your own loss, and when you are down you radiate negativity, but its all right, i understand, it is hard when u lose someone, but its the ego bringing you down.

No, it is not wierd, infact, to me, its wierd people throw fits and get all down when somebody graduates life.  You should be NOTHING BUT happy.  If you knew what it meant to us to finally leave this life, you would rejoice always.

Quote:

Loss of ego wouldn't just mean not feeling pain when losing a loved one. Loss of ego would also mean not feeling happy, right?




to me, wrong.  your happiness does not come from your ego, it comes from your heart.  Your heart is who you are, it is love, and that is all you have without an ego, so when you are feeling pain, or scared for whatever reason, what other reason is there for it but your ego.

What is the ego?  It is the reason we fear, the reason we hurt, it is the reason we have sense of time and space, without it, you are left with yourself, and that is love, and that is all you will feel :heart:




the truth seems so strange when you've been living a lie.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: ]
    #2592215 - 04/22/04 09:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
Quote:

What is selfish about feeling pain in losing someone that you love?

Wouldn't that be kind of weird, to feel nothing but happiness?




because your only thinking about yourself, your own loss, and when you are down you radiate negativity, but its all right, i understand, it is hard when u lose someone, but its the ego bringing you down.





I so disagree.  I don't radiate negativity.  I feel sad.  But I still function and go to work and I'm nice to people, in spite of my sadness.  What type of negativity are you talking about radiating? 

Today, I'm sad over a certain loss.  But I stopped and bought my kids dinner at KFC and dropped it off at their dad's place.  He's an asshole, but I bought him dinner, too, just to be nice.  I don't think that's negative.  I think one can feel sadness and still do positive things and be positive.

Quote:

Quote:

Loss of ego wouldn't just mean not feeling pain when losing a loved one. Loss of ego would also mean not feeling happy, right?




to me, wrong.  your happiness does not come from your ego, it comes from your heart.  Your heart is who you are, it is love, and that is all you have without an ego, so when you are feeling pain, or scared for whatever reason, what other reason is there for it but your ego.

What is the ego?  It is the reason we fear, the reason we hurt, it is the reason we have sense of time and space, without it, you are left with yourself, and that is love, and that is all you will feel :heart:




Where do you get this information from?  I will have to look into this.  I just disagree at this point with what you are saying.

I think having too much ego is probably not a good thing, but some ego is good.  I think feeling sad is a healthy sign when a love is lost.  Expressing sadness in negative ways is the sign of ego, but sadness in and of itself is a normal, healthy human emotion.

I can think positively about the future in spite of the loss, and realize that losing one person makes room for someone else, that there are reasons for everything.  And I can take what I learned from the relationship.  But it's still sad to lose a loved one, whether to divorce or death or a break-up.

Besides, what about people who buy a new car, for example, and they are happy with ownership of that new car.  Doesn't that have to do with ego?

Okay, now I have to research ego.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: Frog]
    #2592693 - 04/22/04 11:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I am sorry if someone else has said this, but I did not read the other posts for time reasons... I think the 'stomach' deals with your gut feelings, instincts... Your 'heart' is your emotional control center, and deals with things like love and hate. Your 'mind' is where the imput from all your receptive centers gets sorted and delt with, or ignored.

"So. Tell me. When something hurts emotionally, where does it hurt, and why"

Any and all of the 'psychic' receptive centers pain can occur.. just examples from my experience..

When someone who I have helped turns thier back on me, I find the pain more in my heart because most replationships are out of love...

When someone I trust betrays me, friend or foe, I feel the 'pain' more in the stomach area...


Edited by 2Experimental (04/22/04 11:10 PM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2592732 - 04/22/04 11:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That makes a lot of sense, 2Experimental. I think you sort of summed up what Skorpivo and Markos are saying.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2595342 - 04/23/04 05:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

>I think the 'stomach' deals with your gut feelings, instincts... Your 'heart' is your emotional control center, and deals with things like love and hate. Your 'mind' is where the imput from all your receptive centers gets sorted and delt with, or ignored.
-The stomach isn't responsible for intuition (gut feeling) but it may be responsible for joy and sadness. Also, since there aren't brain nerves in the heart it can hardly be said that it is responsible for ANY emotions; though it may be possible that mental stress, such as from breaking up, could put tension in that area.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_105441.html

Scientists discover 'second brain' in the stomach

Scientists are claiming to have discovered a second brain - in the human stomach.

The breakthrough, involving experts in the US and Germany, is believed to play a major part in the way people behave.

This 'second brain' is made up of a knot of brain nerves in the digestive tract. It is thought to involve around 100 billion nerve cells - more than held in the spinal cord.

Researchers believe this belly brain may save information on physical reactions to mental processes and give out signals to influence later decisions. It may also be responsible in the creation of reactions such as joy or sadness.

The research is outlined in the latest issue of German science magazine, Geo, in which Professor Wolfgang Prinz, of the Max Planck Institute for Psychological Research in Munich, says the discovery could give a new twist on the old phrase "gut reaction".

He said: "People often follow their gut reactions without even knowing why, its only later that they come up with the logical reason for acting the way they did. But we now believe that there is a lot more to gut feelings than was previously believed."

Professor Prinz thinks the stomach network may be the source for unconscious decisions which the main brain later claims as conscious decisions of its own.

The second brain was rediscovered by Michael Gershorn, of the University of Colombia in New York, after it was forgotten by science. He says it was first documented by a 19th century German neurologist, Leopold Auerbach.

He discovered two layers of nerve cells near a piece of intestine he was dissecting. After putting them under the microscope he found they were part of a complex network.

Recent research has already raised the idea that many reactions may be made in the stomach. Benjamin Libet, of the University of California found the brains of volunteers asked to raise their arms only registered activity about half a second after the movement had been made. He believes his work implies another part of the body may have been involved in making the decision.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2595384 - 04/23/04 05:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Wow.. Just goes to show you how incredible innate-human instincts can indeed be.. :thumbup:

Now I can say I have THREE brains. :wink:



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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Heart Attack [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2596390 - 04/23/04 11:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"The stomach isn't responsible for intuition (gut feeling) but it may be responsible for joy and sadness. Also, since there aren't brain nerves in the heart it can hardly be said that it is responsible for ANY emotions"

I do not think you can comment on the area of where the gut feeling instinct resides unless you have directly experienced the difference. Just because it is unprovable in science means it's for the lunatics? ask many adults and they will tell you they 'just feel' it, that something is wrong, ask them where this feeling is located and 9/10 they will say stomach. Anyways that is proof enough for me. I think the stomach is the recieving area for things like negative auras , and hidden meanings behind intentions....


The heart is not responible for emotions, the brain is, but during certain emotions like love or hate the body projects 'energy' to the heart area producing either posative or negative feelings depending on the state of mind. Does this energy exist without the brain? I am sure it does, but until I am beheaded I cannot say.


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