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Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses???
    #25880878 -

I know that horses get all sorts of vaccinations, and de worming pills and all sorts of shots and medicines. My concern( as there are tons of horse farms around here, that I can get free manure from) is that the heavy metals in these medicines ends up in the manure and urine( which all ends up in a big compost pile somewhere on a property, and that whatever mushrooms grow from the manure, will uptake the heavy metals, as it is known that mushrooms DO uptake heavy metals. 


Any thoughts or concerns here? Should I worry? I guess my best bet is to just ask the farmer what sort of medicine they use on their horses, and try to find the best one? I don't know... I just don't want to concentrate heavy metals.

Thoughts?

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25880903 -

Dont worry man!

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #25880913 -

Zero Nowhere said:
Dont worry man!




Something about reduced growth and development, cancer, organ damage, nervous system damage, and in extreme cases, death, from heavy metals, has me slightly worried.

I think it's a valid concern!

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25880915 -

We all die from something

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #25880934 -

Just an article related to, but not answering my question!

Quote:
A research team from the University of Castilla-La Mancha (UCLM) has analysed the presence of heavy metals in 12 species of mushroom collected from non-contaminated natural areas, and has found that the levels vary depending on the type of mushroom. The results of the study, which appears this month in the journal Biometals, show that the largest quantities of lead and neodymium are found in chanterelles.

"The aim was to find out if there is a connection between the concentrations of specific heavy metals detected in the mushrooms, based on three factors: the type of substrate, the study area and the species of mushroom. The third was the determining factor", explains Juan Antonio Campos, principal author of the study and researcher at the Department of Crop Production and Agricultural Technology at UCLM.

The researchers have analysed the presence of lead (Pb), neodymium (Nd), thorium (Th) and uranium (U) in a hundred samples of 12 different species of common mushroom, both edible and non-edible, collected from non-contaminated zones in the Ciudad Real province. They were collected from wooded areas comprising Holm oak, Kermes oak, Pyrenean oak, Pine and Cistus.

The results of the study, published this month in the journal Biometals, reveal that there are 'considerable' quantities of the four metals in all the species examined, as well as significant differences in the capacity for accumulation of these elements depending on the species.

The analysis of these heavy metals - which can be toxic to humans - was carried out using X-ray fluorescence spectometry, a technique that enables a sample's composition to be detected and quantified using X-rays.

The highest levels of neodymium (7.1 micrograms/gram) and lead (4.86 μg/g) were found in the chanterelle (Cantharellus cibarius), a mushroom widely used in European cuisine. This mushroom grows in the shadow of Holm oaks, Cork oaks and oaks, and is ectomycorrhizal (it clings to the external roots of plants to exchange nutrients), thereby it has direct contact with the mineral particles of the soil.

For their part, thorium and uranium accumulated mostly in Hypholoma fasciculare, with concentrations of 3.63 and 4.13 μg/g, respectively, "despite being a species that lives on fallen tree trunks and is isolated from the mineral substances of the soil".

The scientists found no significant differences in the metal levels when comparing mushrooms collected from different substrates, habitats and localisations. The only exception was with thorium, which accumulates more in mushrooms which grow on wood (such as Hypholoma fasciculare or Gymnopilus spectabilis) than in those which have contact with the organic material of the soil (Tricoloma ustaloides and Pisolithus arrhizus).

New lines of research

To confirm that the type of substrate can take on a more important role than reflected in the study, the researchers have embarked on a new project in which they will analyse the presence of 19 chemical elements (toxic and non-toxic) in 15 species of edible mushroom.

"The real issue is that those mushrooms that form ectomycorrhizae are specially adapted to absorb chemical elements from the mineral particles of the soil, and give them to the plant. This is their contribution to symbiosis, and, the more effective they are in providing nutritional elements to the plant, the closer their connection to it, and the more sugars from photosynthesis they can access, which is what they are ultimately looking for", explains Juan Antonio Campos.

This type of mushroom carries out an indiscriminate acid attack on the mineral particles of the soil and absorbs elements in quantities relative to the mineralogical composition of the soil. "In some contaminated soils, or those with particular mineralogical characteristics, the mushrooms collected can reach such high concentrations of toxic elements that their consumption would be unadvisable", reveals the researcher.

###
References.

Juan A. Campos, Noel A. Tejera y Carlos J. Sánchez. "Substrate role in the accumulation of heavy metals in sporocarps of wild fungi". Biometals 22 (5): 835-841, octubre de 2009.



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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25880942 -

Well this is good news if I want to grow oysters on the horse manure!

Quote:
Resistance levels to heavy metals in 21 mushrooms obtained mainly from Japan, but also from Thailand, were tested. The mushrooms were 7 Pleurotus species, 2 Pycnoporus and Pholiota species and one each of Agrocybe, Cryptoporus, Coriolus, Inonotus, Lampteromyces, Grifola, Flammulina, Lyophyllum, Agaricus, and Polyporus species. The Pleurotus species strains showed higher resistance to the heavy metals, copper, cadmium, zinc, nickel, cobalt, mercury than the other species. Pleurotus ostreatus exhibited the highest resistance to all these heavy metals.



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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25880970 -

Quote:
The FDA has established the current IRL at 3 µg per day for children and 12.5 µg per day for adults. These levels allow for differences across populations and are set nearly ten-times less than the actual amount of intake from food required to reach the CDC’s blood reference level



Take Lycoperdon perlatum, which appears to accumulate these metals at a much higher rate. One study shows a concentration of ~3.5 mg/kg in samples grown near a metal smelting facility (0.5 km). At that (high) concentration, you need to eat 280 grams of contaminated puffballs in a day to reach the IRL.

http://www.nipne.ro/rjp/2011_56_1-2/0257_0265.pdf

Grow oysters, don't sweat this stuff. I've been seeing a great deal of alarmist posting from you recently. :shrug: No offence intended.


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

Edited by juniperus (03/17/19 09:19 PM)

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25880983 -

No , you're right.. i've been questioning everything from the water used, to the substrates, and all sorts of things that I would consider more "paranoid" than alarmist...

But ...'

I just want to have the most knowledge possible to grow the safest mushrooms possible.

If you're talking active mushrooms, I guess the levels of heavy metals are a non factor, unless their grown in highly contaminated soil like at a nuclear site or mercury manufacture plant etc.


But it's a real conversation for edibles like portabello or shiitake, where in one sitting, a person might eat 150-200 grams of mushrooms in a meal. Lots of people are replacing meat with shiitake, and hen of the woods, and chicken of the woods etc... But in an effort to be healthy , they may be getting more dangerous things than they realize.

I don't mean to be alarmist or make you paranoid, I'm just trying to learn!

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25880991 -

Also, if you think about what you're saying about near a "concentrated source" I would think that the manure is the highest concentration source of toxic things and heavy metals because it's what the animal is eliminating, because of of, well, it's toxicity.

So if a horse is fed a bunch of crap and chemicals, the manure will most definitely be highly contaminated.

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25881064 -

Sure sure, I don't mean to cast shade. Learning is my goal as well. I'd rather have someone asking questions and spurring a discussion than not.

Whitelighter said:
Also, if you think about what you're saying about near a "concentrated source" I would think that the manure is the highest concentration source of toxic things and heavy metals because it's what the animal is eliminating, because of of, well, it's toxicity.

So if a horse is fed a bunch of crap and chemicals, the manure will most definitely be highly contaminated.



I would be cautious of applying this logic, personally. I don't know all that much about animal biology, but sometimes things in nature don't work as you might expect. But you certainly could be right.

Here's an abstract:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232248578_Content_of_Heavy_Metals_in_Animal_Feeds_and_Manures_from_Farms_of_Different_Scales_in_Northeast_China

Manure did indeed have higher concentrations than the animal's feeds. Now the question is, while heavy-metal uptake for most mushrooms is likely correlated to substrate concentration, to what proportion is that concentration reflected in the fruits themselves. Really, the concentration of the fruit body will necessarily (it seems) be less than that of the substrate. So it is not really the action of "concentration", but more-so "collection".

Do more research and let us know your findings!


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881406 -

It'll be next to impossible to try to detect anything of the medication (tablets, injections, vaccinations, etc) in the manure of a horse. There's just too much horse shit to be able to detect anything of note.

Secondly, those heavy metals are not available in their elemental form, and as such have radically different effects.

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: teladi]
    #25881460 -

teladi said:
Secondly, those heavy metals are not available in their elemental form, and as such have radically different effects.



:orly:

Quote:
Heavy metals in animal manures or in sludge
(bio solids) may be found in the form of metal ions
or of inorganic or organic complexes. In soil there
are the same metal forms which are also adsorbed to
the surface of clay minerals or clay-humus
complexes.



https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c697/d925c94edd64f4ffb8d511e0d86d44c101e0.pdf


Still, none of this is anything I would ever worry about. :thumbup:


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus] * 1
    #25881464 -

I would be more worried about the amount of car exhaust you have to breathe just to get to the farm well before I would start to be concerned about the trace amount of stuff that may or may not be in the manure. Besides humans are living longer than they ever had as well quality of life and medical care are doing so well you can get shot in the head and be back to normal next week.

Some people just are addicted to worry and "chemical harm" despite the fact that that regulations have only gotten more strict with time

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881469 -

juniperus said:
teladi said:
Secondly, those heavy metals are not available in their elemental form, and as such have radically different effects.



:orly:

Quote:
Heavy metals in animal manures or in sludge
(bio solids) may be found in the form of metal ions
or of inorganic or organic complexes. In soil there
are the same metal forms which are also adsorbed to
the surface of clay minerals or clay-humus
complexes.



https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c697/d925c94edd64f4ffb8d511e0d86d44c101e0.pdf


Still, none of this is anything I would ever worry about. :thumbup:



From medication, not feeding. OP sounds like a casual anti-vaxer.

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: teladi]
    #25881552 -

Vaccines are not a health threat, full stop.

You're not going to end up in the hospital because you ate a mushroom that grew in the crap of a vaccinated animal.

I'd be way more worried about real and practical issues like the presence of coliform bacteria in equine and bovine manure.


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #25881582 -

But I heard vaccinations cause autism.


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881594 -

Yes, Dr Jenny Mccarthy told us so.

:lol:


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #25881610 -

Mr Piggy said:
Yes, Dr Jenny Mccarthy told us so.

:lol:



:rofl:

And that's not even to mention the dreaded cow pock



--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881613 -

There was a study that came out recently that showed that vaccine can actually prevent autism. I'm trying to search it, but there's so much bullshit SEO to fight through that I gave up after 3 Google results pages.

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: teladi]
    #25881614 -

But where are the studies on cow pock??


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881616 -

None....uhoh...

COW POO CAUSES AUTISM

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: juniperus]
    #25881622 -

You make a good point about how the chain of toxicity is lessened along the way from substrate, to mycelium, to fruiting body, which if I understand correctly, the fruiting body will contain the least concentrated amount of metals compared to the soil.

I'm still looking into this matter, but if I can eliminate one more potential toxic source, it might lessen the impact of all the other toxic stuff that I'm exposed to.

I *did* read that sewer sludge and mass feed lot manure is not allowed to be used in organic compost farming, because of the elevated levels of heavy metals.

I'm going to do more homework tonight.. will report back.

Thanks for all the input!

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25881633 -

If you're this scared of heavy metals, you're going to freak out when you learn about Xenoestrogens. And that some fungi produce them as mycotoxins - Mycoestrogen - many of which are found in stored grains.

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Re: Horse Manure--Chemicals, Vaccinations, Anti fungal/antivirus, and other medicines given to horses??? [Re: teladi]
    #25881695 -

teladi said:
If you're this scared of heavy metals, you're going to freak out when you learn about Xenoestrogens. And that some fungi produce them as mycotoxins - Mycoestrogen - many of which are found in stored grains.




Oh no LOL- Mr. Paranoid(me) has another thing to research and freak out about.. LOL.


Thanks :smile: Jk.

I will be looking into that. :sun:

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