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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Amanita86]
    #25869237 - 03/12/19 11:02 AM (8 days, 2 hours ago)

What scares more than kratom are those kava tea blends even from big companies like yogi. I always hear people using them no problem then bam someone needs a liver transplant. Its not everyone obv but i guess maybe these people are drinking lots of kava (perhaps with alc)

Kratom mostly bothers me in terms of possible contamination. Hopefully the sources people here use are safe

IF the kratom was contaminated, then i would say the vendor could be held responsible. But a car crash, wtf kind of shit logic is that, you get behind the wheel on a psychoactive (controlled or not) substance its on you


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Fractal420]
    #25869721 - 03/12/19 03:22 PM (7 days, 21 hours ago)

That has to do with how the Kava is collected/processed. Every part of the Kava plant excluding the root is hepatoxic, and it is easily imagined that mass producers are just using the whole plant to lower costs. If using the whole plant the product could also become hepatoxic before an effective dose of kavalactones are even present, so even if just adding Kava as a marketing ploy the product could still be dangerous.

But leave it to our stupid government to ban the whole plant, instead of just requiring companies to only use the root.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/12/19 03:23 PM)


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25871032 - 03/13/19 04:24 AM (7 days, 8 hours ago)

Kava and kavalactones in the us are just sold in stores as tea packets. By huge tea companies. "Stress relieving tea". Gotta say, it works, kinda like a mild benzo type of thing


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Fractal420]
    #25871110 - 03/13/19 06:23 AM (7 days, 6 hours ago)

No way in the world would I use those, give me good ground Vanuatu from a trusted source. I need my liver. And it's shits like those that end up ruining it for everyone else, because they are too cheap to make sure the rest of the plant always gets separated from the root they give kava a bad name.

You wouldn't get very far eating potato plants whole either, but I don't see the government trying to convince people french fries are dangerous.

And I couldn't imagine drinking kava tea, maybe in the right blend. I guess they are probably just adding kavalactones more than kava, you'd have trouble fitting an effective dose of root into a tea bag, and AFAIK water doesn't get the goodies out very well.

Kava tastes like peppery wood/dirt. The best way to drink it is chocolate whole milk, it's actually kind of good. And if you don't like the texture(which is very gritty and fibrous, like drinking a wheat straw/sand smoothy when you get up there in dose), let it sit in the fridge overnight, then use a french press on it. Letting it sit is key to getting all the actives out, but the kava swells up with milk which is why you need the perssure, the most efficient way is to chug it right after stirring.

Use enough of some good root, and it'll go right on past mild, but also less like a benzo.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/13/19 06:35 AM)


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25871793 - 03/13/19 03:33 PM (6 days, 21 hours ago)

https://www.kratomscience.com/2019/03/12/parents-sue-kratom-company-after-son-dies-in-car-accident-coroner-fought-to-keep-autopsy-secret/

The plot thickens... Can someone please copy and paste the story for me? Basically the coroner is refusing to release the autopsy report after everyone called bullshit


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25871855 - 03/13/19 04:11 PM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Unless there is some real shady behind the scenes shit going on, I got a feeling here that this isn't what the coroner is saying, he is just blaming the car wreck on the kratom. But you don't say DUI deaths are caused by acute alcohol intoxication, and you don't sue Budweiser after it happens. Either this gets cleared up in court, or the coroner is just a cog in a much grander plan.





Quote:

Brian said:
Are deaths of drunk drivers from injuries sustained in car accidents ruled “acute alcohol intoxication”? Can I sue Budweiser if one of my family members is killed in a drunk driving accident? It seems to me that alcohol poisoning and a car accident caused by drunk driving are two different causes of death





I'm pretty sure this motherfucker is plagiarizing me. LOL, but to expound on my above statement, if this goes to court there will no doubt be subpoenas. Honestly since the family is only asking for "more" than a measly $50,000, I think they know their case is weak and are hoping it settles, because no way does this shit stand up. The only way this goes to court, these documents don't become public, and kratom is ruled the direct cause of death is if someone(read: DEA) is applying pressure behind the scenes....or a small chance that dude took a whole bunch of extract and had a seizure, which still isn't dying before the wreck...and since it looks like he was on all sorts of "legal" drugs, the DEA wins either way, now they just get to go out and schedule kava and tianpetine.

Here's the whole article, minus the tweets which are a big part of it:

Quote:

Parents in Chester County, PA are suing kratom distributor SoCal Herbal Remedies. Their son, Caleb Sturgis, died in a car accident in 2018. He was 25. The Chester County Coroner ruled the cause of death “acute mitragynine intoxication”.

In the typical sensationalist reporting, stretching itself out of context, ignoring the blaring questions raised by this case, Mari A. Schaefer acts as Drug War stenographer in the Philadelphia Inquirer:

    Sturgis was driving to work on the Pennsylvania Turnpike in Chester County when his car struck a curb and flipped over. The Chester County coroner ruled his death was from “acute mitragynine intoxication,” the active ingredient in kratom. No other drugs were found in his system, save for the amount of caffeine contained in a cup of coffee. Sturgis had been taking the supplement for an energy boost, his family said.

    In the lawsuit, the Sturgis family contends that SoCal Herbal Remedies failed to provide information on the risks of using kratom and did not attempt to test the product to make sure it was safe for use
    https://www.philly.com/health/kratom-deaths-mitragynine-overdose-opioids-herbal-tea-20190307.html

Well that opens a refrigerator full of cans of worms, doesn’t it? How did the accident actually occur? Was kratom really even a factor? Are deaths of drunk drivers from injuries sustained in car accidents ruled “acute alcohol intoxication”? Can I sue Budweiser if one of my family members is killed in a drunk driving accident? It seems to me that alcohol poisoning and a car accident caused by drunk driving are two different causes of death. Are we sure the caffeine found in Sturgis’s system didn’t play a role in the accident? None of these questions are answered.

Journalist Nick Wing, at the time working for the Huffington Post, requested autopsy and toxicology reports from the Chester County Coroner Christina VandePol. The coroner denied his request. Wing then filed an appeal with the Pennsylvania Office of Open Records. OOR granted the appeal, overruling the coroner’s decision. The coroner then filed to appeal OOR’s appeal, essentially forcing Wing to engage in a legal battle to access the toxicology report.

For some reason, VandePol doesn’t want the public to see the toxicology results. Here’s Nick Wing’s twitter thread about it:


I asked Wing if they went ahead with the lawsuit. He responded this morning:

    Yes, we had sued, but I confirmed yesterday that Verizon/HuffPost dropped the suit after I left the company. Disappointing but not surprising.
    — Nick Wing (@nickpwing) March 12, 2019

Interestingly enough, Wing and the reporter who wrote the above Inquirer story got into a back and forth about the issue of the toxicology reports on Twitter back in November.

Schaefer did not respond to Wing’s last tweet. She clearly dodged the question about mitragynine levels because she, herself, did not have the results of the toxicology report, only the results of the manner and cause of death. Why this journalist is acting like the coroner’s press secretary is anybody’s guess.

The more that’s uncovered about this tragic case, the more it seems like a family being misled by those with a Drug War mentality. The Sturgis family certainly cannot be blamed given how new and unknown kratom is to the general public, the weirdness of the coroner’s statements, and the way the press — other than Nick Wing — are lazily glossing over important questions.

I’m not sure the grieving family even has a case here. The attorney representing the family, Robert Mongeluzzi, said at a press conference that SoCal Herbal Remedies “provided none of the information consumers need to make safe choices”. Making medical claims on kratom packages is illegal according to the FDA, so I don’t see how a company could be held liable for an adult man’s individual choice to consume kratom and drive. I’m not sure why an experienced Philadelphia civil attorney doesn’t understand this.

Video of the press conference where Mongeluzzi made this statement shows the attorney holding a bag of “White Vietnam” purchased by Sturgis. This is a white vein leaf powder strain, not even an extract. So until we can see the coroner’s report it’s unclear how much mitragynine was in Sturgis’s system.

What makes this case even weaker, from a different angle, is social media posts exist where Caleb Sturgis talked about taking so much kava that he couldn’t stand, and also abusing the antidepressant tianeptine.[emphasis added by Holybullshit]

Unfortunately for the family’s case, this seems to show that Sturgis knew exactly what “overboard” meant for him, and deliberately went there with multiple substances in the past. Whether the car accident has to do with any substance at all is impossible to determine without a toxicology report and analysis of how the accident occurred. People have deadly car accidents all the time that don’t involve substance use.

One positive result of the case is the trial hopefully will force VandePol to release the autopsy and toxicology reports to the public, as Nick Wing pointed out recently.




Just because I can't resist....I tolled you this was horseshit, motherfucker was nodding out on kava and tianeptine(an opiate). IF, BIG IF, he died from respiratory depression than it was more likely from tianpetine, but I am still going with he was fucked up and crashed his car, period.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/13/19 04:14 PM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: tacodude]
    #25871860 - 03/13/19 04:12 PM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

Parents in Chester County, PA are suing kratom distributor SoCal Herbal Remedies. Their son, Caleb Sturgis, died in a car accident in 2018. He was 25. The Chester County Coroner ruled the cause of death “acute mitragynine intoxication”.

In the typical sensationalist reporting, stretching itself out of context, ignoring the blaring questions raised by this case, Mari A. Schaefer acts as Drug War stenographer in the Philadelphia Inquirer:

Sturgis was driving to work on the Pennsylvania Turnpike in Chester County when his car struck a curb and flipped over. The Chester County coroner ruled his death was from “acute mitragynine intoxication,” the active ingredient in kratom. No other drugs were found in his system, save for the amount of caffeine contained in a cup of coffee. Sturgis had been taking the supplement for an energy boost, his family said.

In the lawsuit, the Sturgis family contends that SoCal Herbal Remedies failed to provide information on the risks of using kratom and did not attempt to test the product to make sure it was safe for use

https://www.philly.com/health/kratom-deaths-mitragynine-overdose-opioids-herbal-tea-20190307.html
Well that opens a refrigerator full of cans of worms, doesn’t it? How did the accident actually occur? Was kratom really even a factor? Are deaths of drunk drivers from injuries sustained in car accidents ruled “acute alcohol intoxication”? Can I sue Budweiser if one of my family members is killed in a drunk driving accident? It seems to me that alcohol poisoning and a car accident caused by drunk driving are two different causes of death. Are we sure the caffeine found in Sturgis’s system didn’t play a role in the accident? None of these questions are answered.

Journalist Nick Wing, at the time working for the Huffington Post, requested autopsy and toxicology reports from the Chester County Coroner Christina VandePol. The coroner denied his request. Wing then filed an appeal with the Pennsylvania Office of Open Records. OOR granted the appeal, overruling the coroner’s decision. The coroner then filed to appeal OOR’s appeal, essentially forcing Wing to engage in a legal battle to access the toxicology report.

For some reason, VandePol doesn’t want the public to see the toxicology results. Here’s Nick Wing’s twitter thread about it:




I asked Wing if they went ahead with the lawsuit. He responded this morning:

Kratom Science
@kratomscience
· Mar 11, 2019
Replying to @nickpwing
Did anything happen with the Chester Co. coroner's office appeal from the Office of Open Records ruling that granted you access? Did you have to sue the coroner to fight the appeal?

Nick Wing

@nickpwing
Yes, we had sued, but I confirmed yesterday that Verizon/HuffPost dropped the suit after I left the company. Disappointing but not surprising.

Interestingly enough, Wing and the reporter who wrote the above Inquirer story got into a back and forth about the issue of the toxicology reports on Twitter back in November.




Schaefer did not respond to Wing’s last tweet. She clearly dodged the question about mitragynine levels because she, herself, did not have the results of the toxicology report, only the results of the manner and cause of death. Why this journalist is acting like the coroner’s press secretary is anybody’s guess.

The more that’s uncovered about this tragic case, the more it seems like a family being misled by those with a Drug War mentality. The Sturgis family certainly cannot be blamed given how new and unknown kratom is to the general public, the weirdness of the coroner’s statements, and the way the press — other than Nick Wing — are lazily glossing over important questions.

I’m not sure the grieving family even has a case here. The attorney representing the family, Robert Mongeluzzi, said at a press conference that SoCal Herbal Remedies “provided none of the information consumers need to make safe choices”. Making medical claims on kratom packages is illegal according to the FDA, so I don’t see how a company could be held liable for an adult man’s individual choice to consume kratom and drive. I’m not sure why an experienced Philadelphia civil attorney doesn’t understand this.

Video of the press conference where Mongeluzzi made this statement shows the attorney holding a bag of “White Vietnam” purchased by Sturgis. This is a white vein leaf powder strain, not even an extract. So until we can see the coroner’s report it’s unclear how much mitragynine was in Sturgis’s system.

What makes this case even weaker, from a different angle, is social media posts exist where Caleb Sturgis talked about taking so much kava that he couldn’t stand, and also abusing the antidepressant tianeptine.






Unfortunately for the family’s case, this seems to show that Sturgis knew exactly what “overboard” meant for him, and deliberately went there with multiple substances in the past. Whether the car accident has to do with any substance at all is impossible to determine without a toxicology report and analysis of how the accident occurred. People have deadly car accidents all the time that don’t involve substance use.

One positive result of the case is the trial hopefully will force VandePol to release the autopsy and toxicology reports to the public, as Nick Wing pointed out recently.








————————————

Kinda choppy but I think I got it.  I hope this toxicology report gets out, it would be priceless to see that get thrown back in their faces.  Do you think anyone was whispering into the coroner’s ear?


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25871865 - 03/13/19 04:14 PM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

Jinx..:lol:


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Amanita86]
    #25871869 - 03/13/19 04:16 PM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

Thanks for making me look lazy.


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25872142 - 03/13/19 06:49 PM (6 days, 18 hours ago)

Thanks for copying it over.... phone and all

Edit: I bet the coroner was paid off... I think someone mentioned it's a common problem due to lack of regulation in medical examination of deed bodies allowing a lot of shady dealing and corruption


Edited by tacodude (03/13/19 06:51 PM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: tacodude]
    #25872261 - 03/13/19 07:44 PM (6 days, 17 hours ago)

That’s what I hope happens, this could be one of those things that has chain consequences if it gets out I would think.  I want to see some crooked bitches go down..:hehehe:


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Chester County family sues kratom distributor in death of son [Re: Amanita86]
    #25873106 - 03/14/19 04:54 AM (6 days, 8 hours ago)

Such bullshit. Coverups, using tragedies to further agendas. This is fucking disgusting


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It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

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