cAmmAc said:

Jesus man, have you not listened to a word anyone in these forums has said about not yanking out mushrooms?

Brilliant way to ensure your patch won't fruit for the rest of the season!

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Rex Banner said:

Rastas said:

I'm almost certain I've been finding cyanescens north west of Vic,
Subs in the south east
A friend of mine has been finding azurescens central/Midwest Vic.
I've found liberty caps lately and alot of agaric

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Subs are very phenotypically diverse. The subs that I find in wood chips in urban Melbourne could easily be mistaken for an entirely different species to the ones that grow in the wild under Eucalpytus trees. This is likely what has happened here.

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Gallusgallus229 said:

This is what I mean. I can understand the apprehension with suggesting that some subs may be anything else.
It's like any time someone puts forth a wild theory, people who've held to a strict belief for so long don't want to consider that maybe it's always been a bit wrong.
But has much study ever actually been done ?
That screenshot seems to show that even Alan Rockefeller is quite open to the possibility.

Edit - I agree that claims of Azures and Cyans in different regions of Vic is a bit wild. I also agree that subs are very phenotypically diverse species. But I can't understand why people seem to be so dismissive of any suggestion that we may have some other woodloving mushrooms here that ARENT subs.

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captmorgs said:

How about this one. Couldn’t not pick the saffron milk caps at the same time!

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Rex Banner said:

I'm not dismissive of the claim, I just think that the current body of evidence suggests that these were likely different phenotypes of P. Sub rather than Cyanescens or Azurescens, happy to be proven wrong though.

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Gallusgallus229 said:

WeBeTrippyMane said:

Rastas said:

I'm almost certain I've been finding cyanescens north west of Vic,
Subs in the south east
A friend of mine has been finding azurescens central/Midwest Vic.
I've found liberty caps lately and alot of agaric

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It's been debated quite a few times, there aren't cyans in Australia, only subs and they have a wavy cap variant if that is what you're describing, there is a post here describing a theory on what happened. something about the continents shifting and psilocybe cyanescens over millions of years, evolved into the Psilocybe Subaeruginosa species that we have today.

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I THINK the theory goes the other way around, the Cyans-Azures etc sprung from Subs. Tho I may be wrong on that.

This is something I've always been hell curious about tho. Those two, plus a few others, look remarkably similar to some subs. Is it not worth looking at these mushrooms a little closer?

Any time I've half brought it up it's been pretty quickly dismissed, but it's a thought that's been there since I first discovered these funny little mushrooms and I've never been able to shake it.

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Notabot said:

This is my third season looking, and this year I have been out every weekend in various places across Melbourne, from dandenongs to the ottways.  Nothing but inactive and lookalikes.  My partner is fed up with my stubbornness (never had shrooms) and it's taking its toll.

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I had to laugh at this, my partner is also getting fed up. Luckily she does enjoy the walks, but not so much going off track and tripping over kangaroo skeletons.

BananaBender said:

Do you usually spot them from the path or do you actually walk through the garden beds pulling apart bushes?

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Doug295 said:

Gallusgallus229 said:

WeBeTrippyMane said:

Rastas said:

I'm almost certain I've been finding cyanescens north west of Vic,
Subs in the south east
A friend of mine has been finding azurescens central/Midwest Vic.
I've found liberty caps lately and alot of agaric

---

It's been debated quite a few times, there aren't cyans in Australia, only subs and they have a wavy cap variant if that is what you're describing, there is a post here describing a theory on what happened. something about the continents shifting and psilocybe cyanescens over millions of years, evolved into the Psilocybe Subaeruginosa species that we have today.

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I THINK the theory goes the other way around, the Cyans-Azures etc sprung from Subs. Tho I may be wrong on that.

This is something I've always been hell curious about tho. Those two, plus a few others, look remarkably similar to some subs. Is it not worth looking at these mushrooms a little closer?

Any time I've half brought it up it's been pretty quickly dismissed, but it's a thought that's been there since I first discovered these funny little mushrooms and I've never been able to shake it.

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A few months ago I presented an evolutionary theory to Alan to explain the occurrence of P. allenii, which postulated that it is native to California USA and that it split from P. cyanescens following the last glacial maximum. Alan liked my theory. However, since then, after much consideration and study, I have come full circle. I now believe that the homeland to the entire P. cyanescens group (including subs) is Australia. Three key pieces of evidence for this:
1) The undeniable genetic diversity of the subs down under versus North American members of P. cyanescens group. Locating epicenters of genetic diversity is one of the key signs of identifying native homeland of species. This is widely accepted. The members of P. cyanescens group here in NA are quite homogenous in phenotypes, e.g. most P. allenii look the same, most P. cyanescens look the same, and most P. azurescens look the same. This homogeneity would be consistent with the founder effect, whereby the genetic diversity of a species is reduced when transported to a new area.
2) The occurrence of P. subs in natural/wild areas in Australia. You essentially never see this in California. They are almost entirely restricted to irrigated landscaped areas. Southeastern Australia differs from California in having a more equally distributed rainfall throughout the year, whereas in California we don't get any rain from June through Sept.
3) Recent DNA sequencing (ITS gene) shows that P. allenii and cyanescens are virtually indistinguishable from P. subs. It is impossible for North American and Australian P. cyanescens group members to coevolve on opposite ends of the earth and have the same DNA. I contend that P. subs was inadvertently transplanted to the west coast of NA in the 1800's/early 1900's along with major horticultural importations from Australia (we have vast forests of Eucalyptus here in Cali, imported here well over 100 years ago). P. cyanescens, allenii and azures are just phenos of subs that have adapted to certain environments here in NA. The azures pheno, tall, sturdy and aerodynamic to deal with the violent winds/storms of the Oregon/Washington coast, P. allenii with short stems and chubby hemispherical caps to deal with dry climate of central/northern Cali.

Anyways, awesome topic, thanks for reading. Thoughts?

D

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portobello said:

maybe it takes a keener eye like yours? My first season properly hunting and I've been out a heap the past couple of weeks, mostly from paths in and around wood-chip garden beds and eucalypt forest areas and have literally found thousands of non-actives, and only one single p. subaeruginosa!

Not losing heart as it's still fun searching, but am easily up to 8 hrs hunting so far. Currently around the inner eastern suburbs - thinking maybe it's time to venture out towards the Dandenongs to find some less densely populated areas.

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