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OfflineJAXlab
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3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth?
    #25869979 - 03/12/19 05:05 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Hey people i have a a few 3/4 pint jars (PF TEK) where one of them was growing considerably faster than the rest although now it has got to being 95% colonised and stalled. It has been like this a week now although i think the patch that has not colonised may be contaminated (probably bacteria). there are no odd colors or signs of mold. My question is should i birth the cake anyway or wait it out? (or an alternative solution?) i attached a picture. All help is appreciated.


Edited by JAXlab (03/12/19 05:11 PM)


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OfflineMike O.Rrhizal
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25870076 - 03/12/19 05:43 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

It looks like a patch of bacteria. You can try cut off the contaminated area and fruit it.

It will probably take longer to fruit and is more likely to get contaminated.


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OfflineJAXlab
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25870144 - 03/12/19 06:27 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Hi mike thanks for the reply. is there some precaution i can take such as dunking in a mild water and soap solution before i place it in my FC? Also would an option be if i wait long enough the myc overpower the bacteria or is this unheard of?


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25870478 - 03/12/19 09:30 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I think the overwhelming mycelium is going to play a strong role in overtaking the contam.


What I would suggest, is since the thing needs air, is to have some pasteurized material ready, and just cut out the chunk with bacteria, mix, contain, and wait.



Worst case scenario you learned.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Whitelighter] * 1
    #25870662 - 03/12/19 11:35 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

When i did cakes i wud jst wash that uncolonized part off with tepid clean water jst like all the others and go about my business.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25871938 - 03/13/19 05:03 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

How do you know its bacteria? I see nothing on it, not even moisture? Everytime I see someone on here have trouble with colonizing people automatically say its bacteria 🀣. Even if there wasn't a picture someone would say it's a bacteria problem lol.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25872031 - 03/13/19 05:48 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

There is only so many reasons for a section to not colonize. Bacterial or compacted. You wont necessarily see bacterial. It's the best guess. I deal with it the same way though. Jst charge on thru.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Timboslice]
    #25872070 - 03/13/19 06:10 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

It could be co2.  He could flip the jar to push the CO2 out a little. It worked for me with I ran into this problem...


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25872072 - 03/13/19 06:12 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Huh, interesting.


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OfflineRichardRahl
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Timboslice]
    #25872194 - 03/13/19 07:13 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

It could be too wet.  I had that happen sometimes on my cakes.  A last little bit at the bottom just wouldn't colonize.

Spawn it, knock the piece off and wash down to colonized cake and fruit it.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: RichardRahl]
    #25872314 - 03/13/19 08:11 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Too wet, or too much CO2 sounds like a good bet. Although, eventually, if it *IS bacteria, you would see some more visible signs.


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OfflineTormatoS
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Whitelighter]
    #25872431 - 03/13/19 08:55 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Top fruit it and I highly doubt it's a CO2 issue.


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OfflineJAXlab
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Tormato]
    #25874137 - 03/14/19 05:31 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Thanks for all your replies. i cant see it being CO2 either, the jar has been flipped the majority of its life and the tape was taken off at 50% visible colonisation. i did wonder about if it was too wet as all my jars have alot of condensation on the glass although they are all still colonising at a respectable rate. I have gone ahead and birthed it anyway and the whole jar smelt nice apart from that small area which smelt offensive but sweet with a hint of feet lol so i am now inclined it was bacteria (i forgetfully made up a couple of jars without wiping down with alcohol; this was probably one of them.) washed it with tap water, scraped as much away as i dare and now its currently in its dunk phase. i plan to quarantine and fruit it as a cake and assess its growth compared to my others.  This is my first ever batch so thanks for all your input its much appreciated. i will keep everyone updated if people are interested.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25874298 - 03/14/19 07:00 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

It's not co2 and stop flipping your jars, only risks wetting filter leading to failure. If you have a dry verm layer, then don't add tape and stuff over the holes.

The farther above 1/2 pt you get, the more fickle they become. 3/4 is about the limit I'd attempt ime.

Most probably bacteria. Leave it until it totally stalls, finishes, or pins. Then top fruit what you got.


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OfflineJAXlab
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25875441 - 03/15/19 11:31 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I see what you mean about 1/2 pints over 3/4 as i have some 1/2s colonising aswell and they have established much quicker so i think i will stick to them in future. your right my jar did have a wet verm filter, the myc had started growing on it (washed it off anyway though). if you get CO2 build up to the point where the myc stalls how do you tackle it without flipping? peace


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OfflineTormatoS
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25875471 - 03/15/19 11:49 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

JAXlab said:
if you get CO2 build up to the point where the myc stalls how do you tackle it without flipping? peace



I've never seen this happen with cubes...EVER!



If you have good gas exchange the "CO2" will clear out as the cakes shrink in the jars. Like I said before and what LTLurker reiterated...

Quote:

Tormato said:
Top fruit it and I highly doubt it's a CO2 issue.



Quote:

LtLurker said:
It's not co2 and stop flipping your jars




definitely bacteria


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Tormato's Q&A Thread

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OfflineJAXlab
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Tormato]
    #25875501 - 03/15/19 12:05 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I have had a jar stall during this grow and after looking around the forum i found people with the same issue. they recommended flipping the jar and it did work the myc started again (i can see the dangerous of it wetting the filter though) there is a lot of conflicting info on here. although i cant deny that it did restart a jar that i was close to throwing away.

how do you get good gas exchange in a jar? is four holes in the lid sufficient?


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25875528 - 03/15/19 12:17 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

4 holes, not overpacking your dry verm layer, not adding extra filters/tape. Doing that should be sufficient.

When you search you want to sort results by most recent so you're getting current info, there's a lot of old practices still in the older results.
Also Verify who is giving the advice. Someone with a bunch of good ratings that's been around a bit(and posted good grows) is more likely to be correct than a new user. TC's are usually correct when they chime in.

I kinda doubt the flipping is what caused the jar to grow. I think it's more likely a fluke or mistake in calling it stalled.


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OfflineJAXlab
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25875548 - 03/15/19 12:27 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

thats great advice thanks. i never considered that there could be outdated practices on here, this site is predates most stuff on the internet now lol. sorry for my ignorance but what is a TC?


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OfflineTormatoS
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25875551 - 03/15/19 12:29 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

JAXlab said:
thats great advice thanks. i never considered that there could be outdated practices on here, this site is predates most stuff on the internet now lol. sorry for my ignorance but what is a TC?




Trusted Cultivator


--------------------
Tormato's Q&A Thread

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"Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead

Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25875556 - 03/15/19 12:31 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

TC stands for Trusted Cultivator. A rocker some members get after they've proven they're reliable and contribute around here(among other things).

There's non on this thread but here's a link to a Comment By Bodhisatta. Under his avatar you should notice the "TC" rocker.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25869798#25869798


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OfflineRichardRahl
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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonized. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25876149 - 03/15/19 05:15 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I do gtg with 1/2 pint jars that have no holes in the lid. 
I have a dry vermiculite layer on top.
I have the lid on upside down so the rubber ring that makes the seal isn't in contact with the glass part of the jar. 
I pack the vermiculite so i have to force the lid down but I don't barely screw the ring down, just enough to keep it on.
I never flip my jars and they fully colonize.
I like the wide mouth 1/2 pint jars because they colonize quicker.  With what I do they colonize from the top surface down, and the wide mouth there is less vertical distance.
I also keep them in a box with a temp controller so they stay closer to 80 degrees all the time.  My house is always cold.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonized. Should I Birth? [Re: RichardRahl]
    #25876184 - 03/15/19 05:32 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

:confused: g2g with brf cakes?


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonized. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25876271 - 03/15/19 06:07 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Uh oh...


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25876322 - 03/15/19 06:28 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I guess I was hallucinating πŸ™„. It doesn't matter what you doubt or think.  You and these trusted cultivators don't know everything. I'm not the only person on here thats flipped a jar or 2.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25876328 - 03/15/19 06:30 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Hopefully once I hit 3000 posts I'll be as intelligent as you are 🀨.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25876335 - 03/15/19 06:32 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Damn...sensitive


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Timboslice]
    #25876353 - 03/15/19 06:39 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

You can flip a jar and it work out, I didn't say it guarantees failure. But this idea that it helps fix a CO2 problem is incorrect. There are no advantages to flipping, only possible downsides like getting the filter wet and causing failure.

I don't understand the attitude. I learned alot by being corrected when I stated an outdated idea.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25876780 - 03/15/19 10:17 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Peoples results prove that you're wrong. A lot of people dont even use a filter with the PF tek genius! That's one of the reasons they use a dry vermiculite layer! Even if they did use a filter how would dry vermiculite get a filter wet πŸ˜‚? I'm sensitive because I hate how people automatically think they know more than you just because they talk on the shroomery all the time. For the most part mushroom cultivation is nothing more than the preparation of grains and substrate, some misting and fanning. It's not rocket science! 99% of you didn't come up with any of this stuff! You just copy what smart people came up with. Get over yourself already. Why should you automatically listen to someone with trusted cultivator under their name? There's tons of people on here that can do strain isolation and grow exotic mushrooms. How the f--k do these trusted cultivators know more than them? I know people with titles like that on the dmt nexus that don't know sh-t.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25876791 - 03/15/19 10:22 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Damn I must be in a bad mood today πŸ˜‚. Sorry..


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Shenmue]
    #25876802 - 03/15/19 10:27 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Flipping a jar literally doesn't do anything. Stop being a dick.

And the "filter" he was talking about is the dry verm. That's ur filter, and u don't want it to get wet because it will defeat the purpose. Water flows downward with gravity.

And if u know what ur doing, then u wouldn't be fanning anything.

And we didn't come up with this shit, but most of us have tried enough things to know what works and what doesn't.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: nube424]
    #25877539 - 03/16/19 11:30 AM (2 months, 2 days ago)

:whathesaid:

I specifically said don't use additional filters if you have a dry verm layer, because the dry verm is your filter.

Things get better over time, you're just repeating old outdated ideas that've been proven incorrect. That's the advantage of a place like this that calls bullshit. Hard for ideas like fanning and flipping to continue getting traction.

/e yes there's plenty of people here with great grows and isolates and all that good stuff(TC's included making great things like APE-Workman and RustyWhyte-PastyWhyte) But they aren't getting those awesome results by following the old stuff you're stating.


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Edited by LtLurker (03/16/19 12:19 PM)


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25877823 - 03/16/19 02:02 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

out of interest you say flipping doesnt solve any CO2 problems yet before i even started in this hobby i knew that CO2 is heavier than air so wouldnt it be true that the CO2 in the jar would in fact sink out the holes on the lid if turned upside down or is it more that the myc doesnt actually create enough CO2 to asphyxiate itself?


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25877839 - 03/16/19 02:15 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

It's because as long as there is some air exchange then the co2 will mix with the surrounding air as it's created. There's no buildup. If co2 actually sank like that, we'd all be choking in a thick layer of co2. You'd need to be in something airtight to asphyxiate.

Same reason fanning is bullshit, there's no build up to fan out in the first place.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25877860 - 03/16/19 02:29 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

JAXlab said:
out of interest you say flipping doesnt solve any CO2 problems yet before i even started in this hobby i knew that CO2 is heavier than air so wouldnt it be true that the CO2 in the jar would in fact sink out the holes on the lid if turned upside down or is it more that the myc doesnt actually create enough CO2 to asphyxiate itself?



It's alot more likely, that that spot u have is either bacterial, too wet, or packed too tightly. If co2 sank like that, EVERYONE would have the same issue in their jars. Grain jars and pf cakes. It's never a co2 issue unless u have ur jars completely sealed air tight like LT Said


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25877900 - 03/16/19 03:00 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
If co2 actually sank like that, we'd all be choking in a thick layer of co2. You'd need to be in something airtight to asphyxiate.




In natural environment wind caused by heat fluctuations does churn up the air and mix CO2 into the other gasses. but in a container because the air is still the heavier and lighter gasses will separate over a number of days, this is part of fluid dynamics. a few holes in a lid wouldnt solve this unless there was a heat source under the jar turning on and off (the expanding air creates a pumping effect but we both know this is not ideal).

I will openly admit that i am a noob to cultivating mushrooms but im not in physics.

(not having a dig here most of your information you have given me has been very helpful and i thank you for it. although somethings i must question as it goes against my own experiences and knowledge on subjects that overlap with cultivation.)


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25877909 - 03/16/19 03:03 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Maybe there is a factor at play here helping the air flow in and out the jar that we do not know about. or if anyone does i would love to know


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25877917 - 03/16/19 03:09 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Dissipation. Not sure if that's spelt right. Or maybe it's diffusion? Either way, if co2 was that big of an issue we would all have problems. It's either too wet, bacterial or packed to tight. Or a combination of those. Most likely too wet and bacterial. Bacteria thrives in water.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25877930 - 03/16/19 03:13 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Here's a pretty comprehensive breakdown, I can only confidently tell you the practical application as it applies to growing. This may satisfy you better.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25667983


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: nube424]
    #25877931 - 03/16/19 03:13 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

in an earlier post i mentioned that maybe myc doesnt create enough co2 in the time its in the jar to cause a problem. do you mean evaporation of water may help flow?


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25878350 - 03/16/19 06:42 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

JAXlab said:
in an earlier post i mentioned that maybe myc doesnt create enough co2 in the time its in the jar to cause a problem. do you mean evaporation of water may help flow?



Evaporation is a flow so I would say yes.


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: Tormato]
    #25901455 - 03/28/19 08:22 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Sorry for the late post been away. i have been reading up on diffusion - very interesting - you are dead right i was under the misconception of co2 settling  out but seems to not be the case. Everyday is a lesson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_diffusion


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Re: 3/4 Pint Jar 95% Colonised. Should I Birth? [Re: JAXlab]
    #25904607 - 03/29/19 08:28 PM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Quote:

JAXlab said:
Everyday is a lesson.




Indeed! :strokebeard2:


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