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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
scary...
    #2586917 - 04/21/04 02:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The term 'American Taliban' seems less and less OTT the more I read about stuff like this (emphasis mine):

Quote:

The Bible college that leads to the White House
The campus is immaculate, everyone is clean-cut and cheerful. But just what are they teaching at Patrick Henry College? And why do so many students end up working for George Bush?
By Andrew Buncombe
21 April 2004

It is worth making clear from the outset that Patrick Henry College in rural Virginia is not your average American university. At Patrick Henry, the students - about 75 per cent of whom have been taught at home rather than in schools - are required to sign a statement of faith before they arrive, confirming (among other things) that they have a literal belief in the teachings of the Bible. At Patrick Henry, students must obey a curfew. They must wear their hair neatly and dress "modestly".

Students must also obey a rule stating that if they wish to hold hands with a member of the opposite sex, they must do so while walking: standing while holding hands is not permitted. And at Patrick Henry, students must sign an honour pledge that bans them from drinking alcohol unless under parental supervision.

Yet these things alone do not make the college special. There are, after all, a number of Christian establishments across the United States that enforce such a strict fundamentalist code for their students.

No, what makes Patrick Henry unique is the increasingly close - critics say alarmingly close - links this recently established, right-wing Christian college has with the Bush administration and the Republican establishment as a whole. This spring, of the almost 100 interns working in the White House, seven are from Patrick Henry. Another intern works for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign, while another works for President George Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove. Yet another works for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad. Over the past four years, 22 conservative members of Congress have employed one or more Patrick Henry interns. Janet Ashcroft, the wife of Bush's Bible-thumping Attorney General, is one of the college's trustees.

And this is no coincidence. Rather, it is the very point. Students at Patrick Henry are on a mission to change the world: indeed, to lead the world. When, after four years or so of study, they leave their neatly-kept campus with its close-mown lawns, they do so with a drive and commitment to reshape their new environments according to the fundamentalist, right-wing vision of their college.

Critics say that Patrick Henry's system cannot help but produce narrow-minded students with extremist views, but the college's openly stated aim is to train young men and women "who will lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values".

Nancy Keenan, of the liberal campaign group People for the American Way, says: "The number of interns [from Patrick Henry] going into the White House scares me to death. People have a right to choose [where their children are educated], but we are concerned that they are not exposed to the kind of diversity this country has. They are training people with a very limited ideological and political view. If these young people are going into positions of power, they have to govern with all people in mind, not just a limited number."

It is also worth making clear that the staff and students at Patrick Henry College are extraordinarily pleasant. The campus itself lies in the small town of Purcellville, about 90 minutes' drive west of Washington DC, amid rolling hills and anonymous commuter communities. The campus is small - there are currently only 240 students, all of them white - and dominated by one large building that houses the classrooms, library and cafeteria where the students and staff take their meals. On one wall is a copy of a famous painting of the revolutionary war hero after which the college is named, 10 years before he made the "Give me liberty or give me death" speech for which he is best known. Students are required to attend "chapel" every morning.

The college was established in 2000 by Michael Farris, who runs the Home School Legal Defence Association, itself set up in 1983 to promote the values of Christian home-schooling as an alternative to what he and others considered the increasingly secular and irreligious culture taking hold in America's public schools. Farris - a lawyer who, with his wife, home-schooled their 10 children - is a prot?g? of Tim LaHaye, well known in the American Christian community as a veteran conservative evangelical author and preacher.

The association has since grown in numbers and influence. It now has 81,000 families, each paying dues of $100. Last year, when George Bush signed legislation banning so-called "partial-birth abortion", Farris was one of five Christian conservatives invited to witness the act in the Oval Office. The college gets so much money from right-wing Christian donors that it operates without debt and yet charges just $15,000 (?8,300) a year for tuition - about $10,000 less than comparable institutions.

Farris, who is also the president of Patrick Henry, was unavailable for an interview when we visited his establishment, but he has told The New York Times: "We are not home-schooling our kids just so they can read. The most common thing I hear is parents telling me that they want their kids to be on the Supreme Court. And if we put enough kids in the system, some may get through to the major leagues."

The man entrusted with the education of Patrick Henry's students is Paul Bonicelli, a former staffer on the House of Representatives international relations committee and now the college's dean of academic affairs. He, too, is terribly pleasant. "I am just sorry that the most important thing we do did not get mentioned," he says, referring to an article in an American newspaper that focused on the strict behaviour code. "And that is to provide a very good liberal arts education." He adds: "I think the most important thing is our academic excellence, [and that we] combine it with a serious statement about our faith and values."

Before being hired by Patrick Henry, all members of the teaching faculty, too, have to sign a pledge stating that they share a generally literalist belief in the Bible. Oddly, only staff teaching biology and theology have to hold a literal view specifically of the six-day creation story. And what is Bonicelli's own view? He smiles. "I am basically persuaded by the young Earth. I believe in six literal days, but I remain open to someone persuading me otherwise."

Internships or apprenticeships, which all students are required to do in their final year, form a major part of their courses. Many spend time working for Republican members of the House or Senate, or in the White House. Only one student has interned for a Democrat. "Most students' values don't link up with [those of] the Democrats," Bonicelli says.

"Values" are something the students here seem to think about an awful lot - values and focus. Indeed, it must be rare to find a group of students so apparently focused as those at Patrick Henry. (Perhaps they are mindful that the admissions document they sign warns that "Satan exists as a personal, malevolent being who acts as tempter and accuser".)

"It's a very focused campus," confirms Marian Braaksma, 21, a charming, third-year creative and professional writing student, who was home-schooled by her parents in Arizona until the age of 18. "We know why we are here and we want to learn everything we can here. The professors give us a great opportunity to learn. We do work awfully hard; more than most colleges."

But what about student life? What about having fun, what about those usual student experiences that one might struggle to enjoy while obeying the rule about hand-holding and walking? What about those aspects of student life that I, frankly, felt a little too embarrassed to ask about directly? "We do have fun, but it is not the sort of student life of a normal college," insists Braaksma. "There are no heavy parties, we have a curfew. But there are sports and games. It is a very musical college. We have a drama team. We also have a debate team that does very well. Mr Farris has said the debate team is our college sports team. Often we will stay up to welcome them back if they have been away debating against another college."

On a tour of the campus, we bumped into a bright young man called Jordan Estrada, from Pennsylvania. Estrada, 18, carried a book entitled Systematic Theology. He had played the part of Creon in Sophocles' Greek tragedy Antigone when it was performed recently by the drama team. He said he was interested in science fiction and wanted to be a writer.

Why had he wanted to study at Patrick Henry? "A lot of what they teach in public schools is not based in reality. I am a believer in creation," he says. Did that belief lead to a conflict with his pursuit of science? "None whatsoever. I have discussed this and spoken to many scientists and I found that there is no contradiction."

A little further on we stopped to speak to Leeann Walker from San Diego, a 20-year-old due to be among the college's first students to graduate next month. Unlike most of the students, Walker had not been homeschooled, but she had nothing but praise for her friends who had. "I have found them to be some of the most responsible, most hardworking people I have ever met," she says.

Walker says she feels the college has prepared her for the real world, and that she is looking to work for one of the many conservative think tanks in Washington. "The mindset of most students is of denial of reality. They want to stay in their own, self-centred world for as long as possible."

It was at this point, walking past the single-sex dormitories and the campaign posters of suited students running for college office, towards the main building with its classrooms of attentive students, that one was struck with a sense of being on a film set. One could not help but recall the 1998 film Pleasantville, in which two teenagers are transported back to their parents' 1950s town of bland, unquestioning niceness.

The staff and students at Patrick Henry may laugh at this - if, that is, they have seen the film. The MTV and VH1 pop-culture channels are blocked from campus televisions, because their contents are considered inappropriate. The students' computers are set up with a program called Covenant Eyes, which monitors the websites they visit.

For all the warm welcomes, for all the smiles, for all the openness, there is something a little unsettling about Patrick Henry and the cultish devotion of its students. This is, after all, an establishment that claims to challenge its students to think for themselves, and yet establishes a fixed, rigid framework - both culturally and intellectually - in which they are to operate.

But, to its critics, what is perhaps most striking about this small, influential college with its self-confidence and focus, and its links with America's neoconservative political elite, is its utter transparency. Patrick Henry College is an institution devoted to spreading its word, spreading its view of the world, and helping to place its students in positions of authority and influence. And it does so in plain view.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2586963 - 04/21/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Denial. It's what's for breakfast!

*shivvers*


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2587590 - 04/21/04 06:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
The term 'American Taliban' seems less and less OTT the more I read about stuff like this (emphasis mine):

Quote:

The Bible college that leads to the White House
The campus is immaculate, everyone is clean-cut and cheerful. But just what are they teaching at Patrick Henry College? And why do so many students end up working for George Bush?
By Andrew Buncombe
21 April 2004

It is worth making clear from the outset that Patrick Henry College in rural Virginia is not your average American university. At Patrick Henry, the students - about 75 per cent of whom have been taught at home rather than in schools - are required to sign a statement of faith before they arrive, confirming (among other things) that they have a literal belief in the teachings of the Bible. At Patrick Henry, students must obey a curfew. They must wear their hair neatly and dress "modestly".

Students must also obey a rule stating that if they wish to hold hands with a member of the opposite sex, they must do so while walking: standing while holding hands is not permitted. And at Patrick Henry, students must sign an honour pledge that bans them from drinking alcohol unless under parental supervision.

Yet these things alone do not make the college special. There are, after all, a number of Christian establishments across the United States that enforce such a strict fundamentalist code for their students.

No, what makes Patrick Henry unique is the increasingly close - critics say alarmingly close - links this recently established, right-wing Christian college has with the Bush administration and the Republican establishment as a whole. This spring, of the almost 100 interns working in the White House, seven are from Patrick Henry. Another intern works for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign, while another works for President George Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove. Yet another works for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad. Over the past four years, 22 conservative members of Congress have employed one or more Patrick Henry interns. Janet Ashcroft, the wife of Bush's Bible-thumping Attorney General, is one of the college's trustees.

And this is no coincidence. Rather, it is the very point. Students at Patrick Henry are on a mission to change the world: indeed, to lead the world. When, after four years or so of study, they leave their neatly-kept campus with its close-mown lawns, they do so with a drive and commitment to reshape their new environments according to the fundamentalist, right-wing vision of their college.

Critics say that Patrick Henry's system cannot help but produce narrow-minded students with extremist views, but the college's openly stated aim is to train young men and women "who will lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values".

Nancy Keenan, of the liberal campaign group People for the American Way, says: "The number of interns [from Patrick Henry] going into the White House scares me to death. People have a right to choose [where their children are educated], but we are concerned that they are not exposed to the kind of diversity this country has. They are training people with a very limited ideological and political view. If these young people are going into positions of power, they have to govern with all people in mind, not just a limited number."

It is also worth making clear that the staff and students at Patrick Henry College are extraordinarily pleasant. The campus itself lies in the small town of Purcellville, about 90 minutes' drive west of Washington DC, amid rolling hills and anonymous commuter communities. The campus is small - there are currently only 240 students, all of them white - and dominated by one large building that houses the classrooms, library and cafeteria where the students and staff take their meals. On one wall is a copy of a famous painting of the revolutionary war hero after which the college is named, 10 years before he made the "Give me liberty or give me death" speech for which he is best known. Students are required to attend "chapel" every morning.

The college was established in 2000 by Michael Farris, who runs the Home School Legal Defence Association, itself set up in 1983 to promote the values of Christian home-schooling as an alternative to what he and others considered the increasingly secular and irreligious culture taking hold in America's public schools. Farris - a lawyer who, with his wife, home-schooled their 10 children - is a prot?g? of Tim LaHaye, well known in the American Christian community as a veteran conservative evangelical author and preacher.

The association has since grown in numbers and influence. It now has 81,000 families, each paying dues of $100. Last year, when George Bush signed legislation banning so-called "partial-birth abortion", Farris was one of five Christian conservatives invited to witness the act in the Oval Office. The college gets so much money from right-wing Christian donors that it operates without debt and yet charges just $15,000 (?8,300) a year for tuition - about $10,000 less than comparable institutions.

Farris, who is also the president of Patrick Henry, was unavailable for an interview when we visited his establishment, but he has told The New York Times: "We are not home-schooling our kids just so they can read. The most common thing I hear is parents telling me that they want their kids to be on the Supreme Court. And if we put enough kids in the system, some may get through to the major leagues."

The man entrusted with the education of Patrick Henry's students is Paul Bonicelli, a former staffer on the House of Representatives international relations committee and now the college's dean of academic affairs. He, too, is terribly pleasant. "I am just sorry that the most important thing we do did not get mentioned," he says, referring to an article in an American newspaper that focused on the strict behaviour code. "And that is to provide a very good liberal arts education." He adds: "I think the most important thing is our academic excellence, [and that we] combine it with a serious statement about our faith and values."

Before being hired by Patrick Henry, all members of the teaching faculty, too, have to sign a pledge stating that they share a generally literalist belief in the Bible. Oddly, only staff teaching biology and theology have to hold a literal view specifically of the six-day creation story. And what is Bonicelli's own view? He smiles. "I am basically persuaded by the young Earth. I believe in six literal days, but I remain open to someone persuading me otherwise."

Internships or apprenticeships, which all students are required to do in their final year, form a major part of their courses. Many spend time working for Republican members of the House or Senate, or in the White House. Only one student has interned for a Democrat. "Most students' values don't link up with [those of] the Democrats," Bonicelli says.

"Values" are something the students here seem to think about an awful lot - values and focus. Indeed, it must be rare to find a group of students so apparently focused as those at Patrick Henry. (Perhaps they are mindful that the admissions document they sign warns that "Satan exists as a personal, malevolent being who acts as tempter and accuser".)

"It's a very focused campus," confirms Marian Braaksma, 21, a charming, third-year creative and professional writing student, who was home-schooled by her parents in Arizona until the age of 18. "We know why we are here and we want to learn everything we can here. The professors give us a great opportunity to learn. We do work awfully hard; more than most colleges."

But what about student life? What about having fun, what about those usual student experiences that one might struggle to enjoy while obeying the rule about hand-holding and walking? What about those aspects of student life that I, frankly, felt a little too embarrassed to ask about directly? "We do have fun, but it is not the sort of student life of a normal college," insists Braaksma. "There are no heavy parties, we have a curfew. But there are sports and games. It is a very musical college. We have a drama team. We also have a debate team that does very well. Mr Farris has said the debate team is our college sports team. Often we will stay up to welcome them back if they have been away debating against another college."

On a tour of the campus, we bumped into a bright young man called Jordan Estrada, from Pennsylvania. Estrada, 18, carried a book entitled Systematic Theology. He had played the part of Creon in Sophocles' Greek tragedy Antigone when it was performed recently by the drama team. He said he was interested in science fiction and wanted to be a writer.

Why had he wanted to study at Patrick Henry? "A lot of what they teach in public schools is not based in reality. I am a believer in creation," he says. Did that belief lead to a conflict with his pursuit of science? "None whatsoever. I have discussed this and spoken to many scientists and I found that there is no contradiction."

A little further on we stopped to speak to Leeann Walker from San Diego, a 20-year-old due to be among the college's first students to graduate next month. Unlike most of the students, Walker had not been homeschooled, but she had nothing but praise for her friends who had. "I have found them to be some of the most responsible, most hardworking people I have ever met," she says.

Walker says she feels the college has prepared her for the real world, and that she is looking to work for one of the many conservative think tanks in Washington. "The mindset of most students is of denial of reality. They want to stay in their own, self-centred world for as long as possible."

It was at this point, walking past the single-sex dormitories and the campaign posters of suited students running for college office, towards the main building with its classrooms of attentive students, that one was struck with a sense of being on a film set. One could not help but recall the 1998 film Pleasantville, in which two teenagers are transported back to their parents' 1950s town of bland, unquestioning niceness.

The staff and students at Patrick Henry may laugh at this - if, that is, they have seen the film. The MTV and VH1 pop-culture channels are blocked from campus televisions, because their contents are considered inappropriate. The students' computers are set up with a program called Covenant Eyes, which monitors the websites they visit.

For all the warm welcomes, for all the smiles, for all the openness, there is something a little unsettling about Patrick Henry and the cultish devotion of its students. This is, after all, an establishment that claims to challenge its students to think for themselves, and yet establishes a fixed, rigid framework - both culturally and intellectually - in which they are to operate.

But, to its critics, what is perhaps most striking about this small, influential college with its self-confidence and focus, and its links with America's neoconservative political elite, is its utter transparency. Patrick Henry College is an institution devoted to spreading its word, spreading its view of the world, and helping to place its students in positions of authority and influence. And it does so in plain view.







Who gives a shit? Why is this anybodies business? Sounds like another example of the Brit press trying to characterize Americans as extremists, and of course since everyone in the UK is paranoid of Christianity they lop this stuff up. I guess it figures though, because we left England because of religous persecuation.

Edame, have you ever even met a Christian fundamentalist or a conservative American? The stuff you guys will believe is outrageous. Brits are too distracted with their caricatures about America to notice just how simplistic and dogmatic their own attitudes to politics and religion are.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2587650 - 04/21/04 06:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see how these people think a closed-environment college atmosphere like the one described could in any way "prepare you for the real world". The real world is not a closed-environment and it sure as hell isn't all sunshine and roses. I think it would be interesting to sit in on some classes there just to see what kinds of things they teach these kids.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: scary... [Re: adrug]
    #2587657 - 04/21/04 06:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There are alot of pretty closed-environment left-leaning liberal arts colleges. They probobly don't really prepare you for the real world either but that is just the way it goes. If people want to pay for it then I'm not going to stop them.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger thanmost
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,317
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
Re: scary... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2587804 - 04/21/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Who gives a shit? Why is this anybodies business? Sounds like another example of the Brit press trying to characterize Americans as extremists, and of course since everyone in the UK is paranoid of Christianity they lop this stuff up. I guess it figures though, because we left England because of religous persecuation.

Edame, have you ever even met a Christian fundamentalist or a conservative American? The stuff you guys will believe is outrageous. Brits are too distracted with their caricatures about America to notice just how simplistic and dogmatic their own attitudes to politics and religion are.




I am American, born and raised and that school scares the bejesus out of me. I can't imagine wanting your children to be so inhibited and uninformed. The literal word of the bible has been shot down so many times and so many ways by the truth and science that I just can't fathom where these people are coming from. How can they ever hope to educate people that will represent modern man.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
enthusiast
Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2587815 - 04/21/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I tell you if ONE thing scares me in America, it's people with moral values making an informed conscious and willing decision to live their lives that way. Friggin ENRAGING.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2587818 - 04/21/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They must wear their hair neatly and dress "modestly".

This bible college would not have admitted Jesus.

Walk on water? Cool!

Water into wine? Even Better!

Heal the sick? Now we're talking!

Won't lose the beard? Take a hike ya fuckin' commie!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: scary... [Re: Swami]
    #2587914 - 04/21/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think dressing 'modestly' here means abstaining from thongs, body piercings, mini-skirts and stretch pants. I don't think Jesus would really have to worry about any of that.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: scary... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2587927 - 04/21/04 08:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Are they accredited?


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: scary... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2588138 - 04/21/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Did you really need to quote the entire article again in your reply?

Who gives a shit?

Some people might, even if you apparently don't. I find it pretty scary that people who believe the Bible literally (as in 'the man in the sky created the world in 6 days' literally) appear to have a place that wants to get as many of them as possible into places of power and influence. I wonder what your reaction would be if this school was for Muslims.

Why is this anybodies business?

I'm sure freedom of the press is not just a concept restricted to the British.

Sounds like another example of the Brit press trying to characterize Americans as extremists,

I missed the part of the article where Americans are characterised as extremists, perhaps you could point it out to me?

If someone wanted to characterise Americans as extremists they could probably look at some better examples, like women being arrested for selling dildos, people who bomb abortion clinics, cancer patients being arrested for using their legally prescribed medicine, high school shootings, Tommy Chong's imprisonment for selling bongs, the RAVE act, the PATRIOT act, John Ashcroft etc...


and of course since everyone in the UK is paranoid of Christianity they lop this stuff up.

Wow, in one half of a sentence you lambast the 'Brit press' for "trying to characterize Americans as extremists" and then in the same breath make your own sweeping generalisation about everyone in the UK being "paranoid of Christianity".
You may have heard of something called the Church of England, they're still quite popular over here you know.

I guess it figures though, because we left England because of religous persecuation.

Are you suggesting some kind of relation between this article and religious persecution?

Edame, have you ever even met a Christian fundamentalist or a conservative American?

I have no idea, people I meet don't usually have big neon signs above their heads declaring their religion or political affiliation, and they aren't topics I bring up with people I don't know well. What does that have to do with the article anyway?

The stuff you guys will believe is outrageous.

I'm sure Britain is grateful to have you informing us of what we will and won't believe.

Brits are too distracted with their caricatures about America to notice just how simplistic and dogmatic their own attitudes to politics and religion are.

Yet again you complain about generalisations while simultaneously making one of your own.

Did you actually intend to comment on the article at all?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
 Arcade Champion: Skeleton Park

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2588360 - 04/21/04 09:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

He's just like the people that go to the school. He's just sticking up for his pals.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: scary... [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2588370 - 04/21/04 10:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
I tell you if ONE thing scares me in America, it's people with moral values making an informed conscious and willing decision to live their lives that way. Friggin ENRAGING.



What does that have to do with right-wing Christians, aside from being polar opposites?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: scary... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2588458 - 04/21/04 10:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Religous people are intolerant...burn them at the stake!


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: scary... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2588468 - 04/21/04 10:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Religous people are intolerant...burn them at the stake!



No, that's the sort of thing religious people would do. I think voting them out of office would be a more appropriate measure.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2588576 - 04/21/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
Did you really need to quote the entire article again in your reply?

Who gives a shit?

Some people might, even if you apparently don't. I find it pretty scary that people who believe the Bible literally (as in 'the man in the sky created the world in 6 days' literally) appear to have a place that wants to get as many of them as possible into places of power and influence. I wonder what your reaction would be if this school was for Muslims.

Why is this anybodies business?

I'm sure freedom of the press is not just a concept restricted to the British.

Sounds like another example of the Brit press trying to characterize Americans as extremists,

I missed the part of the article where Americans are characterised as extremists, perhaps you could point it out to me?

If someone wanted to characterise Americans as extremists they could probably look at some better examples, like women being arrested for selling dildos, people who bomb abortion clinics, cancer patients being arrested for using their legally prescribed medicine, high school shootings, Tommy Chong's imprisonment for selling bongs, the RAVE act, the PATRIOT act, John Ashcroft etc...


and of course since everyone in the UK is paranoid of Christianity they lop this stuff up.

Wow, in one half of a sentence you lambast the 'Brit press' for "trying to characterize Americans as extremists" and then in the same breath make your own sweeping generalisation about everyone in the UK being "paranoid of Christianity".
You may have heard of something called the Church of England, they're still quite popular over here you know.

I guess it figures though, because we left England because of religous persecuation.

Are you suggesting some kind of relation between this article and religious persecution?

Edame, have you ever even met a Christian fundamentalist or a conservative American?

I have no idea, people I meet don't usually have big neon signs above their heads declaring their religion or political affiliation, and they aren't topics I bring up with people I don't know well. What does that have to do with the article anyway?

The stuff you guys will believe is outrageous.

I'm sure Britain is grateful to have you informing us of what we will and won't believe.

Brits are too distracted with their caricatures about America to notice just how simplistic and dogmatic their own attitudes to politics and religion are.

Yet again you complain about generalisations while simultaneously making one of your own.

Did you actually intend to comment on the article at all?




I don't have time to fully answer your post but from my personal experience I get tired of English people trying to tell ME how MY country is nothing but evil Christian fundamentalists and gun nuts because they read some story in the Gaurdian or watched Bowling for Columbine. Thom York's comment on Bush's religious conviction seem to summarize much of England's attitude towards religion.
It seems to me that Brittian has a sick fascination with simplistic image of America as example of religion gone rampid, neo-conservatives bent on world domination, stupid people, etc. I don't think I have ever seen or read anything in the Gaurdian, Independent, or BBC that was not overtly hostile in its characterization of Americans and America. This is very apparent to my by the fact that the only American books about politics that sell over there are by Micheal Moore and guys like Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky, telling you what you want to hear. England seems to filter its information about the US to exclude all non-left wing sources that would not reaffirm their conceptions of Bush, America and its religion and politics.
I swear if I wrote a novel all I would have to do is title it "Why America is Evil" put some picture of the statue of liberty with a gun and an American flag soaked in blood and it would be a bestseller in England.

I don't see why the Independant should concern itself about what one American bible college does. It's called freedom of religion. To me the article appears to be nothing but another anecdote implying how horrible, bigoted and primitive America is.

You can accuse me of generalizations, which I admit to, but you would be wise to analyze the generalizations and characterizations implicit in the 'America as laboratory specimin' attitude that outlets like the Independent consistently take.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: scary... [Re: Edame]
    #2588651 - 04/21/04 11:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How do you feel about the institutions who are trying to promote your values.

Everybody tries to shape the world to fit their ideals. These people just have ideals that are in opposition to yours, just as yours are in opposition to theirs.

That said, I'd love to corrupt some of their women.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Registered: 04/14/04
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Re: scary... [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2588729 - 04/21/04 11:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
That said, I'd love to corrupt some of their women.






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InvisibleRavus
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: scary... [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2589175 - 04/22/04 12:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The last Christian died on a cross. This isn't at all what Jesus would've preached, but alas messages get distorted the farther away we go.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: scary... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2589839 - 04/22/04 04:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
There are alot of pretty closed-environment left-leaning liberal arts colleges. They probobly don't really prepare you for the real world either but that is just the way it goes. If people want to pay for it then I'm not going to stop them.




Thank you for your comment, but I didn't say anywhere anything about this being a strictly conservative issue. Everyone is well aware that most colleges are actually VERY liberal. I also never suggested that they shut it down. I simply made the comment that it would be interesting to me on a personal level to see what they teach. Because I like to actually observe, than just make knee-jerk assumptions.


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