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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: koods]
    #25865010 -

They did it, they did a little animation explaining how it worked.

Talk to them an yall can talk about it, idk enough to comment to much.


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: Nimph]
    #25865067 -

Yeah, no, look up the laws of thermodynamics.

At best they could try and capture CO2 and store it underground.

This too is an energy intensive process and it has to be done with renewable energy, otherwise you'r capturing it at one end and manufacturing it at the other.


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: Nimph]
    #25865088 -

Nimph said:
They did it, they did a little animation explaining how it worked.

Talk to them an yall can talk about it, idk enough to comment to much.


I didn’t say they couldn’t do it. It’s not that difficult and it requires 49,000kJ per kilogram of produced methane - exactly the same amount of energy you get burning a kilo of methane

Btw, this process is called photosynthesis when plants do it using energy from sunlight


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/10/19 09:47 AM)

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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: korgoth]
    #25865449 -

Dork


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: korgoth]
    #25865858 -

korgoth said:
Hey twighead, 'member the movie Her(2013)?

The first truly AI Operating Systems are released to the public.
They start to learn and evolve by rewriting themselves.

By the end of the movie(spoiler) the AIs get so tired of the humans drama that they build a spaceship or somth and leave the planet =))


Hate to break it to you, but that's a fictional movie written by a Hollywood writer with 0 knowledge of computer science with 0 relationship to how people actually program 'self-writing' or 'learning' programs/algorithms :smilingpuppy:


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: twighead]
    #25866641 -

@twighead, Yes, i know, but it is a fun thought experiment.

On the more realistic side there's Ex-Machina(2014) where the AIs are abused by their creator.

If we do manage to build true AI in the next 50+ years and they rise up against us it's probably our fault.


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Edited by korgoth (03/10/19 09:28 PM)

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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: korgoth]
    #25866668 -

I'm sure it may happen sporadically; just as people die from safety protocol failures in current robotic systems... I don't particularly see situations arising where some dude has his own private sentient AI sex bots or some shit that he pisses off and then kill him :lolsy: - it would not make sense to introduce true sentience in that sort of system.

And I highly doubt that any time soon any single individual is going to be able to 'make their own AI robot' - or that in a non-sentient system, you could easily 'mod' it into sentience :lol:

Nor do I think, if there was any major breach of intended function due to the AI's sentience - that it would near instantly spread to all of the robots in the world, like movies such as irobot, etc posit would happen ... each differently programmed device (and even within the same 'programmed line', even if sentient - would have its own differing flavor of cognition, no single argument would convince everyone - just as it's incredibly difficult to find any such "universally accepted argument" for humans, or even animals - especially when dealing with such a moralistic manner as exterminating a whole species...


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: twighead]
    #25866739 -

Most likely true AI will be similar to the nuclear program.
Very expensive to build and maintain. You'd need a NASA level budget.
You'd probably have maybe 20 AIs on Earth.


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: korgoth]
    #25866787 -

Eh, I don't know about that really. I think that hardware does need to be 'reorganized' - either optimized for parallel processing (like a neural network) or a quantum/conventional computer hybrid - I don't think today's computers are optimized to host such a program/algorithm,  but most of the physical technology necessary is already there, and just needs to be purposed more towards the specific usage. Take for instance, how much quicker today's computers can crush insane mathematical equations - however flounder with processing and applying sensory input the way a human brain can with ease. A 50000 digit math problem might take (fractions of) seconds on just a powerful desktop computer, but processing a second of human brain activity can take dozens of minutes on a super computer.

Of course, the way we are wired does not have to be how we wire a robot - there are much more computationally effective means.

It's much more of a software/programming problem than a "need a supercomputer" sort of thing imo - and it would not necessarily be expensive once the software is there. However the complexity of developing the kinds of algorithms which actually mimic... in some fashion biological thinking - is incredibly difficult.

What we'll see for a long time before any 'true AI' - is focused programs which can take a spread of data on a specific task/subject - learn/rewrite its own algorithms from that data - and spit out .. something, be it some kind of analysis - pertinent data - some kind of media, or control something based on said data.
^ those kind of algorithms already exist though and have been used for some time - it's 'kinda-sorta AI - but not really' lol.

Though, I'm sure many specific types of advanced programs would want to be kept under wraps (and definitely are already).


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: twighead]
    #25866793 -

People are unable to consciously develop sentience into AI, however it's not too far fetched in my mind that AI will develop sentience on it's own through trillions of generations of learning and data processing.

Pretty good video on how such stuff is being developed (for practical purposes). Not too much of a stretch to see how far AI might be in the far future though given the same process.


Edited by PatrickKn (03/10/19 11:03 PM)

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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #25866807 -

Yeah, I definitely agree to a good degree - self-adjusting/learning algorithm + different sensory inputs, ways to manipulate their environment, some kind of wide spectrum of given 'tasks/goals' which inherently are ambiguous enough to allow for deep and continual learning/adaptation (just like lifeforms began with basic goals to 'eat/convert energy' and 'reproduce/replicate' - and from that vagueness, we arose :wink:)

I think that the parallel/network hardware and/or the conventional/quantum hybrid type hardware would speed this up a ton.

As per the video example, that creates the type of algorithms I mentioned at the end of the of the last post - What I think is most important for humans who interact with this, is to know what factors to suppress in the evolution, and what to promote - and to thoroughly test the code for bugs as always :wink: There is still a great degree of potential human control in this sort of programming - even if it sounds like its 'totally in machine hands' ... after all we are giving it all of the instructions on what to even be learning in the first place (though this can be eventually surrendered), we are still building the hardware that it all runs on, and nothing that is not supported by the hardware (built by humans), programming language (built by humans - but can get a bit complex there/blur lines depending on the type of language used - if the program wrote itself in machine code/binary? Or was forced to utilize a higher level language/compiler for more restrictions) or OS (built by humans) is going to fly - so that's still a pretty strong degree of control.


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: twighead]
    #25866818 -

On the topic of ex machina you can stay in the place it was filmed, its a hotel in norway :awesome:

http://www.juvet.com/the-juvet-hotel


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Re: the shroomery isn't dying the world is [Re: PatrickKn]
    #25867092 -

That sounds alot like synthetic biology/Darwinism


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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