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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: lowbrow]
    #25870204 - 03/12/19 06:51 PM (7 days, 10 hours ago)

Hahaha thanks.  I want to go back and grab the rest but i don't have time.  I'm going to do it this weekend so i can individually catalog the rest.  Hopefully they're not too far past their prime. 

My plan is to go take 1 from each different patch,  get good photos and print them then dry and immediately vac seal for potential dna work by forever wants to do the work on them some day.

To be honest i'm just glad it's finally coming out that they're different mushrooms in this group.  Everyone complaining cincts are shit,  and ive had less than 3 grams blow me right out of my shoes... ...but ive also had 5 grams leave me wondering wtf?

Now i separate them and have a good eye for the differences.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: lowbrow]
    #25871605 - 03/13/19 01:51 PM (6 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
Yeah, but are they potent? I hear varying reports





The ones that aren't potent are a different species that are found in lawns.  Panaelus cinctulus never occurs in lawns.



Pan. Cincts. Will grow anywhere they can.  That includes lawns.  Sometimes they’ll be blueing too.


I would trust Alan's word on this much more than I would anyone else.


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25871620 - 03/13/19 01:59 PM (6 days, 14 hours ago)

I'm thinking the ones in a lawn are closer to panaeolopsis.. they're nearly identical in strength.

But that's just an opinion from a guy whos handled an abundance of both.

On rotting hay,  they're closer to manure.  But one's growing from manure piles are a beast all their own really.

So saying cincts grow anywhere is partially correct. But i think cincts will eventually be broken in to many categories.  Different varieties basically.

Until someone scientific gets all sciencey on the things it will all be speculation by guys like myself that have the eye and get big quantities.

As for panaeolopsis.. shit ive seen 4-5 different looking ones also fairly weak but still worth having in the collection.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25871926 - 03/13/19 04:54 PM (6 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:


The ones that aren't potent are a different species that are found in lawns.  Panaelus cinctulus never occurs in lawns.




To make blanket statement like this with no evidence is not cunducive to a scientific atmosphere.
Quote:

tacodude said:
I would trust Alan's word on this much more than I would anyone else.





I didn’t say you shouldn’t.  But his statement is as anacdotal as mine.  Personally I would like to see some evidence of this.


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #25871933 - 03/13/19 04:58 PM (6 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Duggstar said:
I've only heard you say this recently - do you have new information?




Yes, a collection came in to the DNA sequencing workshop I taught in Seattle....That data combined with dung Panaeolus cinctulus sequence data and sequence data in Genbank is starting to come together to suggest this.

Quote:

tacodude said:
Any idea what the one growing in the lawns are? Are they even identified?




No idea.    Careful microscopy needs to be done, and also the microscopy needs to be compared with the many species of Panaeolus described since Gerhardt's monograph was published.  Unfortunately most of them are based on microscopy only.

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Alan i'm confused... are you drawing a thought that the ones growing in grass areas may be different than manure?




Yes.


Quote:

I find them on fertilized lawns all the time with jet black spore prints and obviously cinct stems.





There are 170 species of Panaeolus with jet black spore prints, and surely many of those have cinct stems.

Quote:

They're the same strength as the panaeolopsis i also find in grass.




I wonder if they could be the same species.

 
Quote:

I keep all my shit separated. 





Good.  You should also add your photos to mushroomobserver.org and label each bag of dried mushrooms with the Mushroom Observer observation # so we can always tell which photos go with which dried mushrooms.  That way they will be useful for scientific collections.

Quote:

The feel of the come up,  peak, general visuals etc all the same between all the panaeolous cinctulus and panaeolopsis.  Just different strengths gram for gram.




Ancient work (maybe 40 years old) says that all Panaeolus species have various tryptamine alkaloids in addition to psilocybin.  I need to find the original source paper, I know they found serotonin.




Pretty sure he clarified here. Maybe you skimmed over that.  Sure it's not scientific data,  photos or the like... ...but it's at least an explanation of why he stated that.

And honestly ive been saying this for A LONG TIME.. because i love the effects of panaeolous and seek them out.

First hand account of the varying features and effects.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25871976 - 03/13/19 05:22 PM (6 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Duggstar said:
I've only heard you say this recently - do you have new information?




Yes, a collection came in to the DNA sequencing workshop I taught in Seattle....That data combined with dung Panaeolus cinctulus sequence data and sequence data in Genbank is starting to come together to suggest this.

Quote:

tacodude said:
Any idea what the one growing in the lawns are? Are they even identified?




No idea.    Careful microscopy needs to be done, and also the microscopy needs to be compared with the many species of Panaeolus described since Gerhardt's monograph was published.  Unfortunately most of them are based on microscopy only.

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Alan i'm confused... are you drawing a thought that the ones growing in grass areas may be different than manure?




Yes.


Quote:

I find them on fertilized lawns all the time with jet black spore prints and obviously cinct stems.





There are 170 species of Panaeolus with jet black spore prints, and surely many of those have cinct stems.

Quote:

They're the same strength as the panaeolopsis i also find in grass.




I wonder if they could be the same species.

 
Quote:

I keep all my shit separated. 





Good.  You should also add your photos to mushroomobserver.org and label each bag of dried mushrooms with the Mushroom Observer observation # so we can always tell which photos go with which dried mushrooms.  That way they will be useful for scientific collections.

Quote:

The feel of the come up,  peak, general visuals etc all the same between all the panaeolous cinctulus and panaeolopsis.  Just different strengths gram for gram.




Ancient work (maybe 40 years old) says that all Panaeolus species have various tryptamine alkaloids in addition to psilocybin.  I need to find the original source paper, I know they found serotonin.




Pretty sure he clarified here. Maybe you skimmed over that.  Sure it's not scientific data,  photos or the like... ...but it's at least an explanation of why he stated that.

And honestly ive been saying this for A LONG TIME.. because i love the effects of panaeolous and seek them out.

First hand account of the varying features and effects.



That’s still supposition.  I’m talking about actual evidence not somebody saying they’re collecting the evidence.  To make the blanket statement ‘cinctulus never occurs in lawns’ needs to be backed up regardless of who said it.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: lowbrow]
    #25872007 - 03/13/19 05:33 PM (6 days, 11 hours ago)

Damnit... that measures up.

Well looks like I can't help here.  I'm a good speculator though.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25872119 - 03/13/19 06:40 PM (6 days, 10 hours ago)

Edit; Alan's a busy mycologist working with tons of mushrooms regularly... He probably doesn't have time to go through the likely hundreds of mushrooms recorded to find the few that back up his statement. Again I'd believe him over most even without evidence as he lives mushrooms... Remember he has a Psilocybin named after him. Maybeber will have Pan. Alleni next?


Edited by Alan Rockefeller (03/13/19 06:45 PM)


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OfflineSteveinshell
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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25872122 - 03/13/19 06:41 PM (6 days, 10 hours ago)

Careful buddy


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25872126 - 03/13/19 06:44 PM (6 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
I'm thinking the ones in a lawn are closer to panaeolopsis.. they're nearly identical in strength.




Panaeolopsis are really Panaeolus, close to P. fimicola.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #25872129 - 03/13/19 06:44 PM (6 days, 10 hours ago)

I know it's never going to happen, but free speech and all...


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25872236 - 03/13/19 07:35 PM (6 days, 9 hours ago)

Isn't Psilocybe allenii named after John Allen? I think Alan did name it though.

Anyways those are some beautiful looking cincts that's a species I've been wanting to find but haven't had the time.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25872439 - 03/13/19 08:59 PM (6 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

tacodude said:
I know it's never going to happen, but free speech and all...



It will happen one day when they're decriminalized and people accept their healing properties.  But until then reserve comments like that for pm. Free speech doesn't apply to message boards with strict rules to cover their ass


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: mind.at.large]
    #25872866 - 03/14/19 12:16 AM (6 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Careful buddy



Missed that one.
Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Isn't Psilocybe allenii named after John Allen? I think Alan did name it though.

Anyways those are some beautiful looking cincts that's a species I've been wanting to find but haven't had the time.



That name doesn’t get mentioned around here too much anymore.  Funny you’d bring him up, he had some strange ideas about cincts.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: lowbrow]
    #25873710 - 03/14/19 01:39 PM (5 days, 15 hours ago)

Oh yeah I forgot his name... I wondered why I was associating John with Allen

Oh yeah I forgot his name... I wondered why I was associating John with Allen

Edit:
Quote:

Steveinshell said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
I know it's never going to happen, but free speech and all...



It will happen one day when they're decriminalized and people accept their healing properties.  But until then reserve comments like that for pm. Free speech doesn't apply to message boards with strict rules to cover their ass


Again it was a joke of a request... I'm not dumb enough to seriously plan engaging in illegal activities online.


Edited by tacodude (03/14/19 01:41 PM)


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25873721 - 03/14/19 01:43 PM (5 days, 15 hours ago)

Good man..

One day it won't be an illegal activity.  We'll probably be old and tired by the time people unclench their buttholes about psychedelics,  but it will be worth the wait.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25873728 - 03/14/19 01:47 PM (5 days, 15 hours ago)

Yeah hooefully it's sooner than that.  Many are researching medical use of these compounds with FDA approval compared to just a short while ago.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25873752 - 03/14/19 01:54 PM (5 days, 14 hours ago)

Absolutely... ...but if you think the big pharma backed politicians are going to open the flood gates, it's going to be difficult.

Look at how much they're charging for ketamine treatments lol some places are in the 10,000 dollar range for a 5 dollar bump of k.

Those greedy fuckers won't let people be happy and live if it means they can't fat ass it on a different yacht every year.

As someone who suffered SEVERE bipolar depression coupled with extreme addiction. I can tell you they want you hooked,  depressed and shoveling money with no end.

My return to psychedelics stopped me from handing my insurance card to the pharmacist to the tune of 9,000 a month.

If that info starts to really take hold,  they'll have to come up with some other way to milk us like cattle...


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Edited by Steveinshell (03/14/19 01:55 PM)


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: Steveinshell]
    #25873762 - 03/14/19 01:58 PM (5 days, 14 hours ago)

I hear you... Chronic pain makes it very hard though as there still is not enough common understanding on how to deal with pain besides masking it so the doctors end up only knowing how to do that while refusing to do so due to stigma around pain meds while treatments they are not familiar with at all and can't even help point a patient in the right direction.  It's a lot of stupid shit. I'd free myself of the health care system if I could.


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Re: Beefy a$$ cincts... [Re: tacodude]
    #25873802 - 03/14/19 02:13 PM (5 days, 14 hours ago)

Well i have a crazy theory.. that pertained to me so I'll say this worked for me and don't try it until you've exhausted all options..

I was a junky through and through.  I had excruciating pain every day after my last bad dirtbike wreck.  Surgeries etc.  Loads of pain killers,  heroin methadone etc.

However i got there i was hooked and bad as any other junky.

I ate mushrooms one night and the pain COMPLETELY went away until i came down.

I was convinced in my trip that it was all in my head.  I quit,  it wasn't easy at all but i quit.  I started exercising and the pain went away.  In fact my desire to do opiates mostly faded over time as well.

Sure i miss it.  Point being diet and exercise coupled with stretching and the like seem to work best for my pain.

Am i still in some physical pain?  Absolutely.  But nothing like your body screaming for relief by opiate. 

For me pain was an excuse to keep myself high.  Maybe not for you.  But i can remember having the first true pain relief on mushrooms.

Now if my body is achy and i reach shrooms it will sometimes intensify it a bit.  But not where i'm rolling around in excruciating pain.  That's the opiates for me...


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