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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Trial & Error
    #25860730 - 03/08/19 11:32 AM (5 years, 22 days ago)

Okay so this is what I’ll call my second attempt at trying to cultivate. I tried around September-December last year with no success. I’ve spent a lot more time researching and garnering knowledge. I also have more space now and Im in a more sterile and stable environment. Im much more confident this time that I will get some fruits for my labors. I hate how much time and money I wasted but I got to learn a lot of things first hand so I’m stoked...

Today I’m doing a PF Tek on 8 jars. 2 Pint jars and 6 4Ounce. If i get enough spawn from them I may grate them and try to make a shoebox for them to fruit as I really don’t like the idea of a SGFC. Honestly, after all my efforts at PF Tek I really don’t like it because it doesn’t seem any easier than learning how to properly grow from spores<agar<LC<grain<bulk. I mean once you get the knowledge all you need is some hands on practice to make bulk work from what I’ve read. So I chose to do PF Tek cause I really just had an extra syringe and all these random jars laying around. I also had the vermiculite and BRF so I decided what the hell...

Tomorrow I plan on running agar from pastywhytes no pour tek. I’m pretty stoked as this will be the first time trying a no pour tek. It seems really easy, I’ll wait 48 hours then inoculate. Hopefully I can finally successfully isolate a strong genetic culture and then I plan on making LC.

I really need to get some silicon injection ports and some grain. I just moved close to a city, I’m used to county life but now I shouldn’t have a problem finding anything I need! Lol.

I made this thread to keep everyone updated on my progress and it may be of some interests to other guys like me who may be new to not give up. Hopefully it sends they msg...haha.

Will update in a few days with agar plates and hopefully some PF Tek Spawn.

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25863891 - 03/09/19 06:35 PM (5 years, 21 days ago)







So here’s the jars, one got a little too wet dunno if that happened in the PC or if I accidentally used too much of my spore syringe. The two pint jars will probably take forever to colonize and the other five jars will give me a whole gram by tomorrow if I can get them to fruit.

I’m kidding but you get it.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25863894 - 03/09/19 06:38 PM (5 years, 21 days ago)

Your substrates look good, maybe a little too dry, but we will see.

The first one thou with the grey layer, not good. At least its only one :shrug:

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #25863918 - 03/09/19 06:48 PM (5 years, 21 days ago)

I chose to do a bit less water in my recipe because on my past attempts my recipe came out too wet And I think that played a part all the contamination’s that I got. I don’t want to trash that one that got too wet but I don’t think it’s salvageable. Also, I made a lot of agar plates. The first plates were too soft, too much moisture. I’m gonna try them anyways since I had a random B+ syringe laying around. The next agar I made was too stiff so who knows how it’ll work out. I’ll inoculate the stiff agar Monday evening. We will see!

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25869145 - 03/12/19 07:55 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

Just an update on progress, I’m having fluctuating temps lately so I’m worried it may stall my plates and jars but hopefully not too bad. I now have 26 plates going along with the six jars. I had 27 plates but one was contaminated. The rest are showing no growth, I think I will throw away the jar with the grey layer today. I don’t really trust it and I can clean it and hopefully reuse it one day.

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25873515 - 03/14/19 09:53 AM (5 years, 16 days ago)

Update, I hate how obsessive this cultivation hobby can get and I hate shopping at several different stores for the crap I need...had to get that off my chest.

So on the BRF cakes, two look bad, the other four are showing signs of weak growth. I’m not impressed. Out of all my 27 inoculated cups of agar it seems 5 are showing signs of contamination while the others show no signs of anything but then again, that weird mixture of food coloring makes it hard to spot the contamination. The green food coloring I bought, 4 out of 6 showed contamination. I’m getting frustrated by my lack of success...

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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25873690 - 03/14/19 11:31 AM (5 years, 16 days ago)

Given that contamination rate, I'd start by getting new spores. I've made dozens of plates from spore syringes and only had one contaminate (and I think that one was airborne, given that it was 5-6 dots in a line not near where I dropped spores).

I've probably been luckier than most, but that's what you can get with high quality sources and good sterile technique. So assuming your technique is at least OK (i.e., you built a SAB and are honestly trying to follow the instructions for clean agar work), the most likely reason for such bad results is dirty syringes. Get one or two from a respectable vendor (no need to get so many varieties until you can reliably grow at least one!), make some new plates, and try again.

Also, though many people on here are very much against pre-made growing materials, you might want to try getting 4-8 ready-to-use brf jars from a good vendor and start there. It's not hard to make jars, but if you're having problems with your own, it might help to get some pre-made ones to use as a model. That would also remove one potential source of failure from the equation (at least mostly - vendor jars aren't always perfect, but their technique and quality control are better than the average noob's at least), so you're more likely to have a successful grow. Then once you've got your first under your belt, you can start doing them on your own.

Final thought here: crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. Don't worry about LCs and isolates (which aren't always desirable anyway) until you can get PF jars to fruit, grow out clean agar plates, and get that agar to colonize grain. Those more advanced topics aren't necessary to grow mushrooms, but you need to be able to grow mushrooms for them to be useful, so focus on the basics first.

(To be clear, I'm not faulting your enthusiasm---I totally get it and do the same thing! Just saying that given your results so far, you'll have more success long term by spending time mastering the fundamentals. There's always more to try later, but you can't really do much with that if you don't get the simple stuff right.)

Good luck!

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Durgin]
    #25873729 - 03/14/19 11:47 AM (5 years, 16 days ago)

Thanks for the reply. I figured I could take off in this hobby because everything makes sense to me. I’ve learned a lot, I was even getting ready to try gourmet and medicinals.

I ordered my syringes from sporedepot...I thought they were reliable.

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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25873759 - 03/14/19 11:57 AM (5 years, 16 days ago)

No experience with them (also note you shouldn't mention specific vendors in forums!), but even good vendors have bad batches sometimes. I'd try another source to rule that out, and just keep the one you already have in the fridge---if it turns out that something else was the problem instead, you can always use it later.

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OfflineMycohard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Durgin]
    #25873826 - 03/14/19 12:27 PM (5 years, 16 days ago)

Are you dropping the syringe directly onto the plate?


--------------------
If I spell out the joke is it still funny?

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Mycohard]
    #25875797 - 03/15/19 12:24 PM (5 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah, I turn it slightly sideways so my hand and syringe isn’t over the agar then I try to get just a drop dead center of plates since the cups are so small. I actually had much more success when I used real Petri dishes with a pour method. I threw away like three contaminated plates today. I’ve got one jar with no progress, one jar that looks mostly good but with either a slight bacterial infection or maybe myc piss, the other six jars are showing progress. Not the ropey what you call it can’t spell it growth but the type of growth before that. I’m still not getting anything going on for the agar... I may just fruit these right out of the tops of the jars and get a clone from them. I’m kinda tired of trying MS inoculation...assuming I get to fruit them at all of course, lol.

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OfflineMycohard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25876467 - 03/15/19 05:29 PM (5 years, 15 days ago)

You'll have better luck isolating a clean culture by squirting a little bit of the spore solution into a sterilized shot glass(Pressure cooked) and using an inoculation loop to trace out the pattern detailed in c10s agar guide as opposed to straight dropping it onto the plate and letting it contaminate random areas across the plate.


--------------------
If I spell out the joke is it still funny?

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Mycohard]
    #25880855 - 03/17/19 08:12 PM (5 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks Mycohard, that makes sense...

Hey, guys so I need some advice!

None of my agar has shown any growth. I’m not really sure why, I’m considering just trashing it and trying again. It’s been about 9 days, none of them have obvious contamination either though. Should I give them a bit longer?

Another question, I have a lot more syringes but I’m honestly getting tired of MS syringes...

I’m gonna try to inoculate a few more agar plates tonight or tomorrow BUT...

Out of all my BRF jars six are doing good, one is iffy and the other one is about to be trashed. However, if I make it to them being fully colonized what method should I use to fruit them? Here’s my dilemma, the pint jars are obviously going to take longer so I will only have four 4 ounce jars. I could fruit them out of the top and try to clone one but I’m unsure how successful I would be as I’ve never tried and don’t wanna mutilate my best fruit, lol. Or I could try grating them up and doing a shoe box but I don’t know if I’ll get enough spawn to do that. I feel pretty confident in that method though. It’s just pretty hard for me to decide on how to birth and fruit them...I’m seeing a tiny bit of rhizo growth BTW, that has me stoked.

Question 1 trash or wait for growth on 9 day old agar?

Question 2 how should I birth and fruit my four 4 ounce cakes?

Question 3 should I just clone them when they do fruit?

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Invisiblejuniperus
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Durgin]
    #25880873 - 03/17/19 08:23 PM (5 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Durgin said:
Given that contamination rate, I'd start by getting new spores. I've made dozens of plates from spore syringes and only had one contaminate (and I think that one was airborne, given that it was 5-6 dots in a line not near where I dropped spores).

I've probably been luckier than most, but that's what you can get with high quality sources and good sterile technique. So assuming your technique is at least OK (i.e., you built a SAB and are honestly trying to follow the instructions for clean agar work), the most likely reason for such bad results is dirty syringes. Get one or two from a respectable vendor (no need to get so many varieties until you can reliably grow at least one!), make some new plates, and try again.

Also, though many people on here are very much against pre-made growing materials, you might want to try getting 4-8 ready-to-use brf jars from a good vendor and start there. It's not hard to make jars, but if you're having problems with your own, it might help to get some pre-made ones to use as a model. That would also remove one potential source of failure from the equation (at least mostly - vendor jars aren't always perfect, but their technique and quality control are better than the average noob's at least), so you're more likely to have a successful grow. Then once you've got your first under your belt, you can start doing them on your own.

Final thought here: crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. Don't worry about LCs and isolates (which aren't always desirable anyway) until you can get PF jars to fruit, grow out clean agar plates, and get that agar to colonize grain. Those more advanced topics aren't necessary to grow mushrooms, but you need to be able to grow mushrooms for them to be useful, so focus on the basics first.

(To be clear, I'm not faulting your enthusiasm---I totally get it and do the same thing! Just saying that given your results so far, you'll have more success long term by spending time mastering the fundamentals. There's always more to try later, but you can't really do much with that if you don't get the simple stuff right.)

Good luck!




Pretty solid advice for the most part.


OP: 1) spores can take anywhere from 3 days to a month or longer to germinate on agar. Be patient, transfer away as soon as you see growth large enough to do so.

2) I would fruit your cakes in a SGFC, which is a great place to start and teaches the beginner a great deal. Just make sure it's constructed properly. You could also try out Mateah's Humidity Chamber, if you don't like the sound of the SGFC.

3) It's never a bad idea to learn how to clone, but producing good results with MS is something every grower should strive for, perhaps first off.


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: juniperus]
    #25882082 - 03/18/19 02:48 PM (5 years, 12 days ago)

I used potato flakes in my recipe...

Is it possible that they are no longer good to use?
I’ve had the bag of potato flakes  and it’s been open for about four months...

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Invisiblejuniperus
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25882412 - 03/18/19 05:53 PM (5 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Grey6Bard said:
Is it possible that they are no longer good to use?





I doubt it


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: juniperus]
    #25882724 - 03/18/19 09:14 PM (5 years, 12 days ago)

I didn’t realize they expired so quickly...uuugh. Such a waste...

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Invisiblejuniperus
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Grey6Bard]
    #25882775 - 03/18/19 09:48 PM (5 years, 12 days ago)

I had a feeling that might be misread. In response to the wording of your question: I doubt (that it is possible they are no longer good to use). i.e. they're fine. The raw nutrients will still be there, that's all we need.


--------------------
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind - this is the teaching of the Buddhas

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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: juniperus]
    #25883110 - 03/19/19 06:46 AM (5 years, 11 days ago)

Agreed. And if they've gone bad some way that's not so bad that it's visible, well, that's what the pressure cooking is for!

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OfflineGrey6Bard
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Re: Trial & Error [Re: Durgin]
    #25883610 - 03/19/19 01:13 PM (5 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks guys!

I went ahead and ordered some more agar, malt extract and some rye berries.
I’ll take some pics of me PF cakes and post em in a minute.

I’ll start some MEA next week.

Man, I better be a champion at this by next after all my mistakes haha.

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