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Offlinesycodelix
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Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression
    #25857179 - 03/06/19 10:47 PM (2 months, 12 days ago)

https://hightimes.com/news/study-suggests-microdosing-dmt-may-help-treat-anxiety-depression/

Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression
Psychedelic microdosing is a growing trend, yet there are very few peer-reviewed studies about its effectiveness.

Adam Drury Published 9 hours ago on March 6, 2019 By Adam Drury
Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression Shutterstock
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The idea of microdosing psychedelic drugs has been around for a long time. But thanks to its trendiness among high-performance tech startup types and creative professionals, researchers are taking a new look at microdosing’s possible therapeutic potential. As with other illicit substances, there’s more anecdotal evidence about the effectiveness of microdosing than hard data. But a new study is lending some weight to the proliferating stories of its many benefits. Publishing their findings in Chemical Neuroscience, researchers from UC Davis say that microdosing DMT produces positive effects on mood and anxiety.

New Research Points to Therapeutic Uses of Psychedelic Drugs in Small Doses
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, better known as DMT, can produce some of the most intense psychedelic experiences in existence. DMT naturally occurs in both plants and animals, but humans have traditionally extracted it from the shrub Psychotria viridis by brewing a tea the Quechua people call ayahuasca. DMT is also commonly available in crystalized form, which people smoke. Both methods, brewing tea, and smoking, produce powerful hallucinogenic states. But a trip from drinking ayahuasca will last for a long time. Smoking DMT will produce a short, but extremely intense trip.

Neither of those methods, however, can produce the long-term therapeutic results increasingly associated with microdosing, researchers suggest. Microdosing won’t—or shouldn’t—produce a hallucinogenic state. But researchers hypothesize that tripping isn’t necessary to obtain a psychedelic drug’s healing benefits. And that’s exactly what UC Davis neuroscientists set out to demonstrate.

DMT Microdoses Made Lab Rats Less Depressed, Anxious and Fearful
Since DMT, like other hallucinogenic compounds, is broadly illegal, it’s not really possible for publicly-funded researchers to conduct clinical trials with humans. But there are no laws against dosing rodents with drugs. So, using rats, UC Davis researchers compared the effects of microdosing DMT with the effects of a large single dose.


Researchers looked specifically at how DMT doses affected rats’ behavior in four areas: mood, anxiety, cognition and social interaction. Comparing the chronic microdose group to the one-shot large dose group, researchers observed distinct behavioral and cellular effects. “We found that chronic, intermittent, low doses of DMT produced an antidepressant-like phenotype and enhanced fear extinction learning without impacting working memory or social interaction,” the study concludes.

In other words, microdosing produced positive effects on mood, while still allowing rats to function normally. But it didn’t seem to make the rats more creative or improve their cognitive function, as creative professionals claim. As for the rats who received one large dose of DMT, they tripped hard, researchers say, and were not nearly as functional or as anxiety-free as the microdose rats.

Could Psychedelic Drugs Replace Prescription Anti-Depressants?
James Fadiman wrote the book on psychedelic drug use—literally. That 2011 tome, The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide, brought the concept of microdosing into the popular imagination. Since publishing that book, Fadiman says a steady stream of successful microdosing stories keeps trickling out of the San Francisco area. “It’s an extremely healthy alternative to Adderall,” Fadiman says.


But could psychedelics be a healthy alternative to other prescription drugs aimed at improving mood and cognition? That’s a question researchers are keen to answer, especially as more people seem to be answering it for themselves. Mood and anxiety disorders are among the leading causes of disability around the world. And antidepressants remain one of the most highly prescribed medications in the United States. Yet for many patients, these medications prove to be ineffective. Developing novel treatment strategies is therefore a critical clinical need. Yet peer-reviewed studies into microdosing psychedelics, despite its increasing popularity, are scarce.


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Offlinesycodelix
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: sycodelix]
    #25857188 - 03/06/19 10:53 PM (2 months, 12 days ago)



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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: sycodelix]
    #25857357 - 03/07/19 12:36 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Intersting study


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #25857518 - 03/07/19 03:45 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Don't have time to read the actual study,

butI assume they were injecting the rats. Not sure why they didn't use one of the substituted tryptamines, I don't think people want to inject DMT as part of a micro dosing regimen.

Oh, and how exactly do you measure a rats creativity?


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25857539 - 03/07/19 04:35 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

I dont think roa matters its probably for all tryptamines (potential for reduced depression). I mean, i think if they injected the rats with a 4sub thatd be a whole different experiment. What i wonder is what dose they used that the rats didnt "trip" (article says it was sub-psychedelic) but differences in mood were still noted. Ive only ever smoked dmt and afterwards it does feel like a weight is taken off. Ive also smoked low doses and it helps a bit, but i feel like with dmt if you have a breakthrough, youre more likely to experience positive aftereffects. Whereas a small dose can feel weird but does kinda brighten the mood a bit after its over. I actually find dmt to be not too pleasant when stuck in the middle. (Not that a breakthrough is *pleasant* lol, not for me. But still very interesting), but usually when it ends, theres not much depression

Also for me DMT induces* fear but thats before the trip, hands are shaking knowing past experiences lol. I think part of the after-effect is "kinda glad thats over" lol. But theres definitely something actually there. I think psilo and such are better for depression but dmt still works


--------------------
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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25858587 - 03/07/19 04:27 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

Oral DMT is practically non active, it's definitely not exerting an effect for hours, and as its BA is miniscule to get typical micro dose levels into the blood you'd have to take a large dose, and the blood levels would vary wildly between doses. Which is why it matters. The substituted tryptamines are protected from MAO.

Vaped DMT has a very short half life, but oral DMT barely makes it to the bloodstream, and even if it could make it past the gut the rate of absorbtion would create a situation where it gets metabolized too fast to make a difference.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/07/19 04:29 PM)


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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25859009 - 03/07/19 07:25 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

I notice a great lift in anxiety and depression in most people including myself after DMT use. Even a couple puffs of changa has a lasting effect that far exceeds it's actual duration. Its incredibly short duration is also probably why they chose to work with it over 4sub tryptamines


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25859314 - 03/07/19 09:37 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

I've always assumed at least with Ayahuasca that the harmalas/MAOI's contribute as much if not more then DMT to the medicinal effects, there are studies showing the harmalas have anti deppression/anxiety effects for example.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25860621 - 03/08/19 12:40 PM (2 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
I notice a great lift in anxiety and depression in most people including myself after DMT use. Even a couple puffs of changa has a lasting effect that far exceeds it's actual duration. Its incredibly short duration is also probably why they chose to work with it over 4sub tryptamines




But that's not micro-dosing, you are consuming tens if not a hundred times more DMT than what would be used for micro-dosing. But, when consuming doses of that level a small amount of DMT would remain in the body for hours, at levels similiar to what you would see when micro-dosing other tryptamines.

I'm sure there is an anti-depressant effect from DMT use, and it's short duration may make this even stronger, but whatever happens after dosing recreational levels of DMT is at best tangentially related to micro-dosing.

If the AD effect from recreational levels of DMT isn't caused by the short spike in DMT, and is instead a result of the low levels that remain the body for hours afterwards, then this same effect could not result from micro-dosing as the levels would start off so low(unless delivered through a patch or time release pill) that they would surely fall below the threshold required for effect almost immediately, and would definitely not remain above said threshold for hours.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/08/19 12:43 PM)


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25861031 - 03/08/19 03:43 PM (2 months, 10 days ago)

DMT XR 20mg/day


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25864175 - 03/09/19 10:27 PM (2 months, 9 days ago)

I wish.

But to sum um my point, it was not meant to be a comment on DMTs effectiveness or lack thereof as an AD, only that it posed logistical hurdles not seen in protected tryptamines and data gathered through injection could not necessarily be translated to oral use.


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25864513 - 03/10/19 01:24 AM (2 months, 9 days ago)

The changa i was referencing only had trace harmalas from the caapi leaves and it wasn't very high in dmt content. Sorry I should've specified. That's not true changa I suppose  It was an experiment to see if it was still effective at barely perceptual doses at best. I'm sure it's still many times the dose that they're using though. Just thought the experience was worth adding.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25866726 - 03/11/19 12:30 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
I assume they were injecting the rats.





You assumed correctly!

From the article:  "Solid DMT·fumarate (2:1) was prepared as described previously(67) and stored in the dark at −20 °C prior to use. For each administration, a solution of DMT·fumarate (2:1) in 0.9% sterile saline was freshly prepared and passed through a 0.2 μm syringe filter. For all experiments, DMT·fumarate (2:1) was administered at 1 mg/kg (calculated based on the weight of the 2:1 DMT:fumarate salt) via intraperitoneal injection using an injection volume of 1 mL/kg. For our vehicle control, 0.9% sterile saline solution was utilized."

I wonder if oral DMT would have the same antidepressant effect.


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #25866740 - 03/11/19 12:39 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

I would bet it works a whole lot better, especially paired with the maoi.  Another plan would to take a tiny oral dose and then lightly sip on a dmt vape however times you see fit.

I guess you just need to get it in there, that’s not hard :shrug:


--------------------
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25866858 - 03/11/19 02:37 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
I would bet it works a whole lot better, especially paired with the maoi.  Another plan would to take a tiny oral dose and then lightly sip on a dmt vape however times you see fit.

I guess you just need to get it in there, that’s not hard :shrug:




:whathesaid:

The MAOi has it's own medicinal effects and can also make the tryptamines much more potent and longer lasting in the body. So it seems like it would work exponentially better and could have some distinct effects from either individually.

Would be sweet to see some studies of both individually vs combined, and mixed with other Ayahuasca plants since it's such a widespread thing different tribes/cultures have their own variants.

Also would be great to see more research into Mimosa Hostillis, since it has DMT and is used traditionally without any MAOI's yet is orally active:

Quote:

The parts of the tree are traditionally used in northeastern Brazil in a psychoactive decoction also called Jurema or Yurema. Analogously, the traditional Western Amazonian sacrament Ayahuasca is brewed from indigenous ayahuasca vines. However, to date no β-carbolines such as harmala alkaloids have been detected in Mimosa tenuiflora decoctions, yet the Jurema is used in combination to several plants.[




I did some research awhile back after becoming intrigued and apparently up to 20-30 different plants are used to make "mimosa wine", none of which are known to contain harmala MAOI's used in Aya. Tests haven't even found traditional MAOI's in the brews.

Among the 30~ different plants used in their brews are cinnamon and nutmeg which is very interesting, since nutmeg contains myrstacine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myristicin

Nutmeg/Myristicin are only mildly psychoactive alone, but combined with certain inhibitors they become very psychedelic allegedly. I've heard it described as mescaline like as well as a "waking dream", but it's very tricky to get the right mix of plants/oils and it could be dangerous if you mix the wrong ones.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868180 - 03/11/19 08:30 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

I would love to try mimosa wine. That's the first time I've heard that it didn't use any harmalas. If you have a source on that info please share. Not because I'm skeptical but because I'm fascinated. Lol I tried getting high on nutmeg in highschool. Took probably more than we should. It was a terrible time. Lots of vomiting and the most intense hunger and feeling or dehydration ever. Ate til I threw up and then repeated it despite trying to eat at a slower pace. Very very sadating and dream like. Not to unlike an extreme oral thc dose, with more motor impairment, in the style of high yet something intirely of it's own. I would say oral thc is more psychedelic with some cevs in doses that are more than what a person would intentionally take. Would be interesting to see how nutmeg in appropriate dosage would affect a entheogenic brew.


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868203 - 03/11/19 08:47 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
I would love to try mimosa wine. That's the first time I've heard that it didn't use any harmalas. If you have a source on that info please share. Not because I'm skeptical but because I'm fascinated. Lol I tried getting high on nutmeg in highschool. Took probably more than we should. It was a terrible time. Lots of vomiting and the most intense hunger and feeling or dehydration ever. Ate til I threw up and then repeated it despite trying to eat at a slower pace. Very very sadating and dream like. Not to unlike an extreme oral thc dose, with more motor impairment, in the style of high yet something intirely of it's own. I would say oral thc is more psychedelic with some cevs in doses that are more than what a person would intentionally take. Would be interesting to see how nutmeg in appropriate dosage would affect a entheogenic brew.




Sadly there's not a ton of info on it, the wiki page has sources for the no harmala claims though I haven't checked them out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimosa_tenuiflora

The most info I was able to find came from a Brazilian wiki page on Jurema wine that I translated with google.

Here's the brazilian wiki page for Jurema translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=gl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fpt.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJurema_%28bebida%29

It focuses on the traditional/mystical associations with jurema, but also talks a bit about some more specific details I hadn't seen mentioned before:

Quote:

We found around 23 species that we can enter into the preparation of this drink, in Afro-Brazilian religiosities, which also contains cachaça, red wine and honey. In plants, citrus fruits are referred to as cinnamon , cravo-de-india and ginger . Other additives include psychoactive species such as paricá , manacá , cola , nutmeg and highlighted for dandá or junçá allowing potenciación of the drink .




The recipe apparently varies depending on the location. Also one other note, an alkaloid was found in mimosa that potentially has MAOI activity which could explain why it's orally active, and might make it dangerous to mix with harmalas at high doses:

Quote:

The isolation of the chemical compound yuremamine from Mimosa tenuiflora as reported in 2005 represents a new class of phytoindoles,[26] which may explain an apparent oral activity of DMT in Jurema.




There's not much info on it, and while people combine mimosa with harmala plants like rue it seems risky until more research shows it's safe or at least has a traditional history.


Edited by musiclover420 (03/11/19 08:50 PM)


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868344 - 03/11/19 09:47 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Just to clarify, you’re saying mimosa hostilis and your quote says mimosa tenuflora.  I would think mhrb if it were active alone would have more reports etc of it working than there are but like me maybe nobody knows to try :shrug:


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868357 - 03/11/19 09:52 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Just to clarify, you’re saying mimosa hostilis and your quote says mimosa tenuflora.  I would think mhrb if it were active alone would have more reports etc of it working than there are but like me maybe nobody knows to try :shrug:




Quote:

Mimosa tenuiflora, syn. Mimosa hostilis, also known as jurema




Jurema is a widespread thing though, so they probably do use other varieties of mimosa.

Been awhile since I did much research but pretty sure there are a fair amount of reports of mimosa being orally active alone, not active the same way as Ayahausca but psychedelic nonetheless.

Also like I said the wiki page talks about a new compound found in Mimosa that may have it's own MAOI effects that are distinct from harmalas, but still enough to make the DMT partially active orally.

Anyways definitely needs more research.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #25868360 - 03/11/19 09:53 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Thinking about it, maoi has proven to shake depressive thoughts and helped me to reach a mellower brighter outlook for awhile past the active life of the drug just off single exposures.  If you were to get on a regiment I bet it would stick even longer and as a side benefit your health would improve from staying away from booze and sugar, processed shit etc..

That’s assuming no consequences would accumulate from consistent usage, which I don’t believe they do.


--------------------
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"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868367 - 03/11/19 09:57 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:


--------------------
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868387 - 03/11/19 10:07 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

I've been wanting to experiment with some harmalas on their own for these purposes. I need to find a good extraction Tek so I can dose accurately. Going through some rough shit at the moment maybe it'll help keep my head up. Who knows


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868390 - 03/11/19 10:09 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:



I do recall analysis of all those on there I do believe


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868409 - 03/11/19 10:15 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:




Hostilis and Tenuiflora are just different names for the same species I believe. And Acacias are another tree entirely, though there are also a handful of different psychoactive Acacia plants aside from confusa.

The individual plants have been studied a bit but it seems like Jurema is still pretty obscure in western science.

One interesting thing about Acacia Confusa is it contains both DMT and NMT which isn't found in other tryptamine containing species that I am aware of.

Here's a list of psychoactive acacia plants, though many have very little reliable info about them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_known_to_contain_psychoactive_alkaloids

There's a few with super questionable claims:

Quote:

Acacia berlandieri: Hordenine, tyramine and N-methyltyramine in leaves;[20] 0.28-0.66% N-methylphenethylamine in leaves. Causes stock intoxications in Texas.[14][21] Claims of amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[22] are suspect[23]

Acacia rigidula: 0.025% alkaloids from leaves, including N-methyl-phenethylamine and N-methyl-tyramine (both tentatively identified).[14] Claims of DMT, NMT, amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[68] are suspect[23]







Many of them still haven't really been tested at all sadly. Some are probably toxic, some are probably non psychoactive but still medicinal :strokebeard:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868592 - 03/11/19 11:36 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
I've been wanting to experiment with some harmalas on their own for these purposes. I need to find a good extraction Tek so I can dose accurately. Going through some rough shit at the moment maybe it'll help keep my head up. Who knows



Look up The Tao of Rue Extraction, you’ll find it in the Dmt Nexus wiki, maybe here too.  Real easy to follow.:thumbup:

@ music, yeah acacias are different but I’m pretty sure there’s scans of them available too.  That might add to the answer on some of those claims.  If those plants in your quote exist.. I want a pair :datass:


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868806 - 03/12/19 01:44 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Indigenous shaman do refer to the MAOI containing plants as "The Teacher" and the DMT containing ones as "the light". They say the DMT is only necessary to access the teacher.

And if you spend any time on DMT nexus you will find that the general consensus is it is better to saturate with the MAOI and take as small a DMT dose as possible, rather than a small MAOI dose and large DMT dose. The consensus being if you do the latter it just becomes more confusing and less beneficial.

With that said, I am sure they provide their own benefits through separate mechanisms of action, but unprotected DMT isn't going to work the same way as micro-dosing a substituted analog.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/12/19 01:45 AM)


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25868821 - 03/12/19 01:53 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
but unprotected DMT isn't going to work the same way as micro-dosing a substituted analog.




Would be interesting to see how 4aco DMT compares with psilocybin or bufotenin and oral DMT with harmalas :strokebeard:

They probably all have some similar yet potentially distinct benefits but I'd wager Ayahuasca with harmalas + DMT is the most potent/versatile. Though it would also be interesting to see how harmalas effect the medicinal benefits of those other tryptamines since it would still enhance them in both potency and duration.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Edited by musiclover420 (03/12/19 01:54 AM)


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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868932 - 03/12/19 04:19 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:




Hostilis and Tenuiflora are just different names for the same species I believe. And Acacias are another tree entirely, though there are also a handful of different psychoactive Acacia plants aside from confusa.

The individual plants have been studied a bit but it seems like Jurema is still pretty obscure in western science.

One interesting thing about Acacia Confusa is it contains both DMT and NMT which isn't found in other tryptamine containing species that I am aware of.

Here's a list of psychoactive acacia plants, though many have very little reliable info about them: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_known_to_contain_psychoactive_alkaloids]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_kn
Quote:

Acacia berlandieri: Hordenine, tyramine and N-methyltyramine in leaves;[20] 0.28-0.66% N-methylphenethylamine in leaves. Causes stock intoxications in Texas.[14][21] Claims of amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[22] are suspect[23]

Acacia rigidula: 0.025% alkaloids from leaves, including N-methyl-phenethylamine and N-methyl-tyramine (both tentatively identified).[14] Claims of DMT, NMT, amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[68] are suspect[23]





that hordenine is supposed to be terrible stuff. Nmt seems a little interesting although I hear it's mild compared to dmt


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868934 - 03/12/19 04:20 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Wow I butchered that quote lol sorry


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868942 - 03/12/19 04:36 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
Wow I butchered that quote lol sorry




Quote:

that hordenine is supposed to be terrible stuff. Nmt seems a little interesting although I hear it's mild compared to dmt





No problem. Also you are probably thinking of Gramine not hordenine which is a non psychoactive phenethylamine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hordenine

Quote:

Hordenine (N,N-dimethyltyramine) is an alkaloid of the phenethylamine class that occurs naturally in a variety of plants, taking its name from one of the most common, barley




Hordenine is very common, and you'd need to consume large amounts for it to be toxic I believe.

Not sure if gramine toxicity was ever proven in humans either, though it's believed to have killed sheep that were grazing on phalaris grass high in gramine. So probably not something you'd want to consume very much of, it's non soluble in naptha though and not found in every variety of Phalaris grass many of which various tryptamines as well as beta carbolines that may have MAOI potential.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25869172 - 03/12/19 10:21 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

A whole class of antidepressants are maoi's. However theyre difficult medicine because when taking them you cant take a wide range of things for like 14 days. It would be natural for the reversible maoi's like harmalas to also have antidepressant effects. However as someone who never used dmt with an maoi, i can say for me it has a very obvious "reset" effect after coming down, perhaps more obvious than any oher tryptamine.

If i think about it like that, i think it might quell depression more drastically than any other tryp. But i dunno how long the effect lasts and perhaps longer durations like psilo and even longer, lsd, may ward off depression for longer.

Btw apparently FDA ok'ed ket for depression (not just off-label anymore)
I wonder if this means if a doc wants to prescribe it for depression, they can. I also dont know if any rx formulations can be picked up at local pharmacies. But i bet theyre gonna come in if they dont already exist. Its known to be an interest to pharma and fringe clinics who would off-label K-hole you for like a $500 fee. "Ketamine infusions"


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #25869714 - 03/12/19 03:19 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
They probably all have some similar yet potentially distinct benefits but I'd wager Ayahuasca with harmalas + DMT is the most potent/versatile. Though it would also be interesting to see how harmalas effect the medicinal benefits of those other tryptamines since it would still enhance them in both potency and duration.




Totally, I would be very interested in that. Not only because of the benefits provided by the harmalas in and of themselves. You would have to lower the micro-dose a little further when combined with an MAOI but it would extend their half lives, allowing the micro-dose to works its magic even longer like lysergamides do, and it is theorized that metabolites of  the tryptamines which are formed through pathways separate from degredation by MAO are active in their own right, so it would also lead to higher levels of said compounds.


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25870011 - 03/12/19 05:17 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
A whole class of antidepressants are maoi's. However theyre difficult medicine because when taking them you cant take a wide range of things for like 14 days.





More like 3-4~ weeks from what I've read. Non reversible MAOI's don't ever "stop" working, they completely inhibit the enzyme in your brain until your brain physically replaced the enzyme which can take 3-4+ weeks depending on the person.

Definitely some sketchy stuff. Reversible MAOI's are considerably safer despite needing some similar safety precautions. You couldn't pay me enough to eat some of the non reversible MAOI's though...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25870614 - 03/12/19 11:05 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Yep that's what I meant lol.  Glad you caught that


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25871033 - 03/13/19 04:27 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Same. As far as someone paying me to take "real" maoi's

And yeah i hear you gottta be careful with harmala too but its not as dangerous. I dont really mix psychs with maoi's. All my dmt experiences have just been smoked crystal. Lol cant imagine wanting more intensity


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25871228 - 03/13/19 09:28 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I wouldn't suggest vaping straight DMT while on a saturating dose of MAOIs...changa is as close to that as one should get without lots of experience and caution. It's more for oral DMT, which "can" be just as/more intense, easily, but it also allows you to draw out the experience without the crazy peak if you wish.

As far as pharmaceutical MAOIs, I don't want someone to take me too literally and do something stupid, but I think their dangers are a little hyped up. You definitely gotta be careful, as in don't, mix them with monoaminergic drugs, unless you really know what you are doing. But in my personal experience the dietary restrictions aren't nearly as dangerous as one is made to think. You need to be on a very high dose of a non-selective irreversible MAOI for less than a lot of aged cheese or something similar to really cause a crisis.

It becomes more of a problem if you have been on a moderately high dose for a long time, and eat foods high in tyramine all the time. But as pointed as this is less of a concern with reversibles, or subtype selective types such as selegiline.


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25872054 - 03/13/19 06:01 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Same. As far as someone paying me to take "real" maoi's

And yeah i hear you gottta be careful with harmala too but its not as dangerous. I dont really mix psychs with maoi's. All my dmt experiences have just been smoked crystal. Lol cant imagine wanting more intensity




It's not about "intensity" really. In fact my couple oral DMT experiences felt more like a super smooth mushroom trip compared to smoked DMT, way less intense if anything yet longer lasting and still very profound.

Also you can always smoke some as well if you want to kick things up a notch.

Personally I think the biggest benefit of oral DMT is the efficiency. 50mg can be 1 crazy experience smoked or a few milder experiences, or you can eat 50mg~ with harmalas and have a 4-6~ hour experience. You get way more out of it with the harmalas, both experience wise and medicinally.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25873107 - 03/14/19 04:59 AM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Hm thats very interesting, sometimes i hear of people smoking dmt with harmala. Or even just harmala on its own. I havent tried oral dmt, always figured 4-ho-dmt shouldnt be too different than oral dmt, and i mean, my 4-aco experiences have felt alot like orally active dmt also (more so than natural psilo). I hope to try 50mg of harmala with dmt orally soon, i just get weird about the maoi's since i take shit like adderall and whatever

Usually smoking 30mg of close to pure dmt gets me to breakthrough very well. I dont even use the stuff much, i prefer psilo and lsd. Ive tried dpt insufflated though, that is fucking intense imo


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25873975 - 03/14/19 04:14 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Hm thats very interesting, sometimes i hear of people smoking dmt with harmala. Or even just harmala on its own. I havent tried oral dmt, always figured 4-ho-dmt shouldnt be too different than oral dmt, and i mean, my 4-aco experiences have felt alot like orally active dmt also (more so than natural psilo).

Usually smoking 30mg of close to pure dmt gets me to breakthrough very well. I dont even use the stuff much, i prefer psilo and lsd. Ive tried dpt insufflated though, that is fucking intense imo





Been years since I tried it at all, but some of the most relaxing/euphoric experiences in my life were the 2-3 oral DMT experiences I had. Though they still sometimes had stressful come ups similar to mushrooms.

One time I ate 50mg of DMT with 2 friends, we made a fire in my back yard and hung out for awhile. One friend ended up getting a bit too high and asked to go lay down in my bed, so we went inside to keep an ear out for him.

Me and the other guy just got super stoned all night, had a great time. I remember at one point we were talking and I closed my eyes and saw this "portal" like vortex and could feel it sucking me in :lol: but right then my friend tried passing me the joint which snapped me back :strokebeard:

Later on I went to go check on the other friend who was laying down, but he seemed alright just very out of it. Later that night he finally got up and came out with a huge grin on his face, and said "that was crazy". Only got him to describe bits of his experience but he too saw some portals and "went places". He said when I came to check on him he looked up and the bed was surrounded by people.

So that goes to show how the potency varies considerably person to person.

Quote:

I hope to try 50mg of harmala with dmt orally soon, i just get weird about the maoi's since i take shit like adderall and whatever




Just take a break from the other stuff, I doubt adderall lasts very long in the body once you stop taking it. Unless you're using SSRI's or something weird you probably won't need too long of a break, though make sure you research it to be safe. And the harmalas only last 6-12~ hours depending on the dose. 50mg of harmalas would be in the microdose range, might not even cause any MAOI effects since they are reversible the strength of the MAOI effects depends on the dose. So a larger doses will give stronger MAOI effects for longer while lower doses might not even fully inhibit the enzyme.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25874574 - 03/14/19 09:31 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Unless you want to be geeked to the gills, and possibly have a hypertensive crisis, don't mix adderall and MAOIs, you'll be fine if you just skip it that day though. But even a medicinal dose of adderall and one day usage of an MAOI more than likely wouldn't be a problem, I mean you'd feel it, but it probably wouldn't send you to the hospital.

I mean, lots of people combine harmaline and other MAOIs with all kind of drugs, even MDxx, to potentiate them. I've tried it with a few things, I've even combined selegiline with adderall/phendimetrazine(which is good shit btw, prodrug for Preludin), but I wouldn't advise anyone else to.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/19 09:39 PM)


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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25874599 - 03/14/19 09:40 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Unless you want to be geeked to the gills, and possibly have a hypertensive crisis, don't mix adderall and MAOIs, you'll be fine if you just skip it that day though. But even a medicinal dose of adderall and one day usage of an MAOI more than likely wouldn't be a problem, I mean you'd feel it, but it probably wouldn't send you to the hospital.

I mean, lots of people combine harmaline and other MAOIs with all kind of drugs, even MDxx, to potentiate them. I've tried it with a few things, I've even combined selegiline with adderall/phendimetrazine, but I wouldn't advise anyone else to.




Mixing them could be very dangerous, but yeah you probably wouldn't need to take too long of a break.

I mixed kava with lower doses of harmalas before learning it's dangerous to mix them, thankfully only had mild headaches at worst.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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