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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868367 - 03/11/19 09:57 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868387 - 03/11/19 10:07 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

I've been wanting to experiment with some harmalas on their own for these purposes. I need to find a good extraction Tek so I can dose accurately. Going through some rough shit at the moment maybe it'll help keep my head up. Who knows


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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868390 - 03/11/19 10:09 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:



I do recall analysis of all those on there I do believe


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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868409 - 03/11/19 10:15 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:




Hostilis and Tenuiflora are just different names for the same species I believe. And Acacias are another tree entirely, though there are also a handful of different psychoactive Acacia plants aside from confusa.

The individual plants have been studied a bit but it seems like Jurema is still pretty obscure in western science.

One interesting thing about Acacia Confusa is it contains both DMT and NMT which isn't found in other tryptamine containing species that I am aware of.

Here's a list of psychoactive acacia plants, though many have very little reliable info about them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_known_to_contain_psychoactive_alkaloids

There's a few with super questionable claims:

Quote:

Acacia berlandieri: Hordenine, tyramine and N-methyltyramine in leaves;[20] 0.28-0.66% N-methylphenethylamine in leaves. Causes stock intoxications in Texas.[14][21] Claims of amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[22] are suspect[23]

Acacia rigidula: 0.025% alkaloids from leaves, including N-methyl-phenethylamine and N-methyl-tyramine (both tentatively identified).[14] Claims of DMT, NMT, amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[68] are suspect[23]







Many of them still haven't really been tested at all sadly. Some are probably toxic, some are probably non psychoactive but still medicinal :strokebeard:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868592 - 03/11/19 11:36 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
I've been wanting to experiment with some harmalas on their own for these purposes. I need to find a good extraction Tek so I can dose accurately. Going through some rough shit at the moment maybe it'll help keep my head up. Who knows



Look up The Tao of Rue Extraction, you’ll find it in the Dmt Nexus wiki, maybe here too.  Real easy to follow.:thumbup:

@ music, yeah acacias are different but I’m pretty sure there’s scans of them available too.  That might add to the answer on some of those claims.  If those plants in your quote exist.. I want a pair :datass:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*John 14,:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Amanita86]
    #25868806 - 03/12/19 01:44 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Indigenous shaman do refer to the MAOI containing plants as "The Teacher" and the DMT containing ones as "the light". They say the DMT is only necessary to access the teacher.

And if you spend any time on DMT nexus you will find that the general consensus is it is better to saturate with the MAOI and take as small a DMT dose as possible, rather than a small MAOI dose and large DMT dose. The consensus being if you do the latter it just becomes more confusing and less beneficial.

With that said, I am sure they provide their own benefits through separate mechanisms of action, but unprotected DMT isn't going to work the same way as micro-dosing a substituted analog.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/12/19 01:45 AM)


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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Holybullshit]
    #25868821 - 03/12/19 01:53 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
but unprotected DMT isn't going to work the same way as micro-dosing a substituted analog.




Would be interesting to see how 4aco DMT compares with psilocybin or bufotenin and oral DMT with harmalas :strokebeard:

They probably all have some similar yet potentially distinct benefits but I'd wager Ayahuasca with harmalas + DMT is the most potent/versatile. Though it would also be interesting to see how harmalas effect the medicinal benefits of those other tryptamines since it would still enhance them in both potency and duration.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Edited by musiclover420 (03/12/19 01:54 AM)


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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25868932 - 03/12/19 04:19 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Over on the nexus they do a lot of the spectral analysis voodoo and get actual breakdowns on plants like this and as common as the species are I bet they’ve scanned hostilis and tenuiflora, probably others like the acacias..:thumbup:




Hostilis and Tenuiflora are just different names for the same species I believe. And Acacias are another tree entirely, though there are also a handful of different psychoactive Acacia plants aside from confusa.

The individual plants have been studied a bit but it seems like Jurema is still pretty obscure in western science.

One interesting thing about Acacia Confusa is it contains both DMT and NMT which isn't found in other tryptamine containing species that I am aware of.

Here's a list of psychoactive acacia plants, though many have very little reliable info about them: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_known_to_contain_psychoactive_alkaloids]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_kn
Quote:

Acacia berlandieri: Hordenine, tyramine and N-methyltyramine in leaves;[20] 0.28-0.66% N-methylphenethylamine in leaves. Causes stock intoxications in Texas.[14][21] Claims of amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[22] are suspect[23]

Acacia rigidula: 0.025% alkaloids from leaves, including N-methyl-phenethylamine and N-methyl-tyramine (both tentatively identified).[14] Claims of DMT, NMT, amphetamines, mescaline, nicotine and many other alkaloids[68] are suspect[23]





that hordenine is supposed to be terrible stuff. Nmt seems a little interesting although I hear it's mild compared to dmt


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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868934 - 03/12/19 04:20 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Wow I butchered that quote lol sorry


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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25868942 - 03/12/19 04:36 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

KapnDank said:
Wow I butchered that quote lol sorry




Quote:

that hordenine is supposed to be terrible stuff. Nmt seems a little interesting although I hear it's mild compared to dmt





No problem. Also you are probably thinking of Gramine not hordenine which is a non psychoactive phenethylamine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hordenine

Quote:

Hordenine (N,N-dimethyltyramine) is an alkaloid of the phenethylamine class that occurs naturally in a variety of plants, taking its name from one of the most common, barley




Hordenine is very common, and you'd need to consume large amounts for it to be toxic I believe.

Not sure if gramine toxicity was ever proven in humans either, though it's believed to have killed sheep that were grazing on phalaris grass high in gramine. So probably not something you'd want to consume very much of, it's non soluble in naptha though and not found in every variety of Phalaris grass many of which various tryptamines as well as beta carbolines that may have MAOI potential.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25869172 - 03/12/19 10:21 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

A whole class of antidepressants are maoi's. However theyre difficult medicine because when taking them you cant take a wide range of things for like 14 days. It would be natural for the reversible maoi's like harmalas to also have antidepressant effects. However as someone who never used dmt with an maoi, i can say for me it has a very obvious "reset" effect after coming down, perhaps more obvious than any oher tryptamine.

If i think about it like that, i think it might quell depression more drastically than any other tryp. But i dunno how long the effect lasts and perhaps longer durations like psilo and even longer, lsd, may ward off depression for longer.

Btw apparently FDA ok'ed ket for depression (not just off-label anymore)
I wonder if this means if a doc wants to prescribe it for depression, they can. I also dont know if any rx formulations can be picked up at local pharmacies. But i bet theyre gonna come in if they dont already exist. Its known to be an interest to pharma and fringe clinics who would off-label K-hole you for like a $500 fee. "Ketamine infusions"


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #25869714 - 03/12/19 03:19 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
They probably all have some similar yet potentially distinct benefits but I'd wager Ayahuasca with harmalas + DMT is the most potent/versatile. Though it would also be interesting to see how harmalas effect the medicinal benefits of those other tryptamines since it would still enhance them in both potency and duration.




Totally, I would be very interested in that. Not only because of the benefits provided by the harmalas in and of themselves. You would have to lower the micro-dose a little further when combined with an MAOI but it would extend their half lives, allowing the micro-dose to works its magic even longer like lysergamides do, and it is theorized that metabolites of  the tryptamines which are formed through pathways separate from degredation by MAO are active in their own right, so it would also lead to higher levels of said compounds.


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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25870011 - 03/12/19 05:17 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
A whole class of antidepressants are maoi's. However theyre difficult medicine because when taking them you cant take a wide range of things for like 14 days.





More like 3-4~ weeks from what I've read. Non reversible MAOI's don't ever "stop" working, they completely inhibit the enzyme in your brain until your brain physically replaced the enzyme which can take 3-4+ weeks depending on the person.

Definitely some sketchy stuff. Reversible MAOI's are considerably safer despite needing some similar safety precautions. You couldn't pay me enough to eat some of the non reversible MAOI's though...


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineKapnDank
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25870614 - 03/12/19 11:05 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Yep that's what I meant lol.  Glad you caught that


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: KapnDank]
    #25871033 - 03/13/19 04:27 AM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Same. As far as someone paying me to take "real" maoi's

And yeah i hear you gottta be careful with harmala too but its not as dangerous. I dont really mix psychs with maoi's. All my dmt experiences have just been smoked crystal. Lol cant imagine wanting more intensity


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25871228 - 03/13/19 09:28 AM (2 months, 5 days ago)

I wouldn't suggest vaping straight DMT while on a saturating dose of MAOIs...changa is as close to that as one should get without lots of experience and caution. It's more for oral DMT, which "can" be just as/more intense, easily, but it also allows you to draw out the experience without the crazy peak if you wish.

As far as pharmaceutical MAOIs, I don't want someone to take me too literally and do something stupid, but I think their dangers are a little hyped up. You definitely gotta be careful, as in don't, mix them with monoaminergic drugs, unless you really know what you are doing. But in my personal experience the dietary restrictions aren't nearly as dangerous as one is made to think. You need to be on a very high dose of a non-selective irreversible MAOI for less than a lot of aged cheese or something similar to really cause a crisis.

It becomes more of a problem if you have been on a moderately high dose for a long time, and eat foods high in tyramine all the time. But as pointed as this is less of a concern with reversibles, or subtype selective types such as selegiline.


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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25872054 - 03/13/19 06:01 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Same. As far as someone paying me to take "real" maoi's

And yeah i hear you gottta be careful with harmala too but its not as dangerous. I dont really mix psychs with maoi's. All my dmt experiences have just been smoked crystal. Lol cant imagine wanting more intensity




It's not about "intensity" really. In fact my couple oral DMT experiences felt more like a super smooth mushroom trip compared to smoked DMT, way less intense if anything yet longer lasting and still very profound.

Also you can always smoke some as well if you want to kick things up a notch.

Personally I think the biggest benefit of oral DMT is the efficiency. 50mg can be 1 crazy experience smoked or a few milder experiences, or you can eat 50mg~ with harmalas and have a 4-6~ hour experience. You get way more out of it with the harmalas, both experience wise and medicinally.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25873107 - 03/14/19 04:59 AM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Hm thats very interesting, sometimes i hear of people smoking dmt with harmala. Or even just harmala on its own. I havent tried oral dmt, always figured 4-ho-dmt shouldnt be too different than oral dmt, and i mean, my 4-aco experiences have felt alot like orally active dmt also (more so than natural psilo). I hope to try 50mg of harmala with dmt orally soon, i just get weird about the maoi's since i take shit like adderall and whatever

Usually smoking 30mg of close to pure dmt gets me to breakthrough very well. I dont even use the stuff much, i prefer psilo and lsd. Ive tried dpt insufflated though, that is fucking intense imo


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Onlinemusiclover420
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: Fractal420]
    #25873975 - 03/14/19 04:14 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Hm thats very interesting, sometimes i hear of people smoking dmt with harmala. Or even just harmala on its own. I havent tried oral dmt, always figured 4-ho-dmt shouldnt be too different than oral dmt, and i mean, my 4-aco experiences have felt alot like orally active dmt also (more so than natural psilo).

Usually smoking 30mg of close to pure dmt gets me to breakthrough very well. I dont even use the stuff much, i prefer psilo and lsd. Ive tried dpt insufflated though, that is fucking intense imo





Been years since I tried it at all, but some of the most relaxing/euphoric experiences in my life were the 2-3 oral DMT experiences I had. Though they still sometimes had stressful come ups similar to mushrooms.

One time I ate 50mg of DMT with 2 friends, we made a fire in my back yard and hung out for awhile. One friend ended up getting a bit too high and asked to go lay down in my bed, so we went inside to keep an ear out for him.

Me and the other guy just got super stoned all night, had a great time. I remember at one point we were talking and I closed my eyes and saw this "portal" like vortex and could feel it sucking me in :lol: but right then my friend tried passing me the joint which snapped me back :strokebeard:

Later on I went to go check on the other friend who was laying down, but he seemed alright just very out of it. Later that night he finally got up and came out with a huge grin on his face, and said "that was crazy". Only got him to describe bits of his experience but he too saw some portals and "went places". He said when I came to check on him he looked up and the bed was surrounded by people.

So that goes to show how the potency varies considerably person to person.

Quote:

I hope to try 50mg of harmala with dmt orally soon, i just get weird about the maoi's since i take shit like adderall and whatever




Just take a break from the other stuff, I doubt adderall lasts very long in the body once you stop taking it. Unless you're using SSRI's or something weird you probably won't need too long of a break, though make sure you research it to be safe. And the harmalas only last 6-12~ hours depending on the dose. 50mg of harmalas would be in the microdose range, might not even cause any MAOI effects since they are reversible the strength of the MAOI effects depends on the dose. So a larger doses will give stronger MAOI effects for longer while lower doses might not even fully inhibit the enzyme.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Study Suggests Microdosing DMT May Help Treat Anxiety and Depression [Re: musiclover420]
    #25874574 - 03/14/19 09:31 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Unless you want to be geeked to the gills, and possibly have a hypertensive crisis, don't mix adderall and MAOIs, you'll be fine if you just skip it that day though. But even a medicinal dose of adderall and one day usage of an MAOI more than likely wouldn't be a problem, I mean you'd feel it, but it probably wouldn't send you to the hospital.

I mean, lots of people combine harmaline and other MAOIs with all kind of drugs, even MDxx, to potentiate them. I've tried it with a few things, I've even combined selegiline with adderall/phendimetrazine(which is good shit btw, prodrug for Preludin), but I wouldn't advise anyone else to.


Edited by Holybullshit (03/14/19 09:39 PM)


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