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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Caps McGee] * 3
    #25856503 - 03/06/19 04:03 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
:waitwut:

You got a hard on for me or what?
:kittylaugh:

I read RR's notes (as most of us do starting out), which suspicion confirmed, based on one test run yes: currently running secondary tests on slanted PE6 cultures that have been neglected on agar, and poorly recorded... the original has outperformed the 4 I've tested again, again... I don't document everything I do, though I guess I need to in order to maintain any sort of validity in your eyes...  May just quit posting all together to avoid any of it: all I do is try to be helpful and contribute back to the comminity... I don't need an inquisition everytime I post something, and the shit's getting old... did you search RR's threads? Do you do this with everyone, I mean... ?

I took a clone,  3 transfers out, took 3 transfers, took 4 transfers in different sectors from each of these 3 plates... if they weren't isolated strains,  they were real close, no longer displaying sectors, and were falling short regardless: continuing to work with them seemed moot... I only kept 6, I've tested 4 again, 2 of which I'm convince are the same isolate, as the fruit are short, and crazy dense...

I guess I should journal everything, but I'm more interested in other's grows,  and information that hasn't already been documented by well known trusted cultivators... your disapproval is certainly upsetting (sincerely, don't read sarcasm into that statement)




No hard on, I just get sick of you bullshitting constantly. You take other people's results and pretend they're your own while consistently ball-parking advice you didn't form from your own experience, but 12 year old notes from RR. You posted conclusively about a subject I've had a lot of interest in since I first started growing and I researched it. Fuck me for expecting you to have posted about it previously, right?

You take pictures non-stop of your lone fruits, freshly harvested subs, etc. But you isolated 12 sectors on a clone, fruiting them all out, and didn't document ANY of it? LOL, okay, bro. And the results you described are super far from the point where your statements are acceptable. Now you aren't even sure they were isolated? If you're going to REPEATEDLY tell folks you've proven 11/12 isolated strains from a clone are worse than the original, you should absolutely know whether they're actually isolated strains or not.

No need to log everything, just stop trying to answer questions authoritatively with shit you don't know about. This is how we wind up with 40 more new growers regurgitating second-hand information that wasn't proven/verified in the first place. And then 328583257 more threads about incubating their jars at 85F in the future.


Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Use it, pick a fruit from the next run to clone, and isolate that way... you'll know exactly what you're getting then





Quote:

Caps McGee said:
I've done it with 3 generations on agar before going to grain... awesome culture... a clone will still contain multiple strains, and a wide array of genetics... it's not advised to continue this way, once you have an isolate, slant it for cold storage and expand from it for several months, even a year or 2 of it's kept clean and given 24-48 hours to recover each time a transfer is taken...




That's not the same thing and you're misunderstanding the process. Your culture will be MUCH less shot pinning going from plate > plate > plate than plate > scrape out with your SAKGARI or whatever > shaken up > spawned and left to colonize > fruited. The amount of stress and cell divisions that take place in the latter is nowhere near the same as a single pin on agar and a quick transfer.

You don't even understand the processes you're running around repeating. You're repeatedly saying the original clone outperforms 11/12 isolates derived from it, i.e., NOT WORTH IT. And also simultaneously recommending cloning clones until you get an isolate? Beyond the fact the information is in direct opposition with one another, you're telling someone to actively age their culture instead of isolating away on agar instead. That's just bad advice.

"Maybe I'll just quit posting altogether!" Go for it. I'm interested in learning more about the hobby and telling others ACCURATE information more so than internet points. If you're actually interested in the same like you say, you wouldn't be butthurt by me correcting you. I've spent time providing corrections to your misinformation, as well as links to more reading, and you ignored them repeatedly. Someone interested in learning would give me a thanks, I'd think.

Fuck out of here man. I'm sick of reading you regurgitate the shit you've studied over the past year as your own experience. You literally haven't grown long enough to verify a fraction of the shit you tout as your own experience.

It gets you props from the noobs who don't know any better because your post count. And it pisses me off because for every 20 likely true things you're probably just parroting, you're also dragging in misunderstandings and bullshit info, as well. Like telling people their jars will look fucked before spawning if their tubs go green super fast. That's not true and will lead to more mistakes in the future. Bad advice.

And then the next breed of noob who sticks around will also repeat it, because it's practical in this hobby to just do what is "established" and tell others. That's easier than doing what verum did and actually busting his ass with TONS of hard work to show what true agar isolates can do. Or run actual side-by-side tests like Pasty.

Just post from your ACTUAL experience and quit with this bullshit quest to help noobs when YOU are still a noob.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25856528 - 03/06/19 04:13 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

And from what I remember (could be wrong), there isn't strong documentation that a clone always falls apart completely when you isolate the sectors. And there's definitely not some established ratio on how many suck and how many outperform it like 11/12. Lawl, how could there be? It's a living organism and each grow is going to be different than another.

Last I read, which was admittedly a bit ago, people were debating this because of the role of anastomosis. And I've read many people say they've further isolated and never noticed a difference from the original clone's performance. So much of what is repeated are notes from RR and nobody performing the tests themselves. So when Caps said he has proven it, I got giddy and dug in hoping to find something fun, not him parroting RR's old info as his own.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psicomb]
    #25856542 - 03/06/19 04:22 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Has anyone ever had shrooms that ended up only losing a total of ~85% water weight?  I have some PESA that I am paranoid about not being fully dried but I dehydrate them 18-24 hours (almost always closer to 24 hours) and I will have 160g wet turn into like 23g dry.  Not that I'm necessarily complaining, I am just kinda confused as I've never seen this before with regular ass cubes.  Normally my shrooms are like 92% water so this is really different.




I've left tubs wide open to dry out before harvesting to shorten the dehydrating time. Perhaps something like this happened? Also just check the weight at some point and go for another hour or so to see if they're still losing moisture.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25856561 - 03/06/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I've done that and still get a second flush. Sometimes i open the lid to retard the caps from opening and sporulation then go to work or whatever

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #25856665 - 03/06/19 05:13 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Ive in 6 years and plenty of cloning myself never noticed or heard anything to corroborate the clones "falling apart" idea. Often talked about never shown literally ever. So if caps you know something we don't something anything to document that. I think most people just can't keep cultures alive long and blame it on too many transfers or senescence. Tell that to edible cultures that have been in circulation for decades and transferred to hell. Sure the masters exist somewhere but not to some traded for it person 50 down the line.

Caps you definitely do talk out of your ass a lot. Unfortunately the only people that pay attention are noobs. Its transparent to anyone whos been around the block. There's no way you've done half of what you say and then yea low and behold it's what RR says to the T. Come on now, like stare said the chances you document what you do document but not what you claim.... Yea..

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #25856671 - 03/06/19 05:15 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Man you guys are all a bunch of assholes to each other but I love you all equally.
I'd really like to see us collaborate and come together instead of tearing one another apart.
So far I haven't done anything worth a hoot but maybe one day I will and I hope everyone else does the same.


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
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Say No To Grow Kits

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo] * 2
    #25856685 - 03/06/19 05:20 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Fortunately this place IS for tearing people's work apart when they BS. No ones tearing the person apart just the claims and evidence. We start calling people names and shit and I'll be sure to quickly shut it down.

The typical "following me around or have a fetish for me" is retarded. The old violet argument :facepalm: don't post in the scrutiny zone if you don't want scrutiny.  Forums are rooted in scrutinizing for the sake of learning. We all post in the same forum and see each other's posts. We're following good info and research around not individuals. For someone to ask for proof or clarification should be absolutely expected. Don't talk like you know everything if you don't have the anything to show.

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #25856729 - 03/06/19 05:31 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

being critical of the information being spread is the best way we can collaborate. if not it is the first step. in order for collaboration to take place everyone has to be on the same page and agree on a common goal and process


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Offlinegizmodo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo]
    #25856732 - 03/06/19 05:33 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I'm still pretty new here and I'm not used to seeing the guns blaze I guess.
All in all I believe anyone would have to admit that Caps has been helpful for some people though, that should be at least touched upon.
Because of my limited knowledge on it all I don't have an all encompassing view but he has helped me more than a few times.

Out of this though I'd like to mention I notice quite a few people don't cite sources around the forum for some of the information or advice they give.
Nobody specifically and its a generalized thing that's quite normal on a board I understand but I personally will be adopting the say it and cite it methodology for my future references or posts to keep things direct and informative.
This way people in the future, if they find it at all of use, can reference the source of the advice or information being provided in my replies or threads, if they please, instead of just reading it at face value.
Sometimes I've run into situations where people I don't know too well have conflicting views on some matter at hand but they provide no real evidence or source as to bolster their conflicting views or to direct someone to further reading to get a deeper grasp of the subject.

I feel like doing this will help to guide the conversations I'm involved in to a more mycologically grounded subject rather than anything personal.
Realistically we should all here to be lifetime learners if we are sticking around and its good to approach any advice with a bit of skepticism as well as not knowing.


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits

Edited by gizmodo (03/06/19 05:35 PM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids] * 1
    #25856740 - 03/06/19 05:33 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Agreed. People challenge my teks from time to time. Either I back it up or learn something new. The root of our hobby is collaboration and sharing our findings. Reporting false findings undermines the community. Challenging others strengthens the mushroom growing community because it helps the good info float to the top and the BS sink.

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Invisiblerickyswamps
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25856756 - 03/06/19 05:38 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
id rather make actual cake



amen

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I've done that and still get a second flush. Sometimes i open the lid to retard the caps from opening and sporulation then go to work or whatever




Why would this slow down the caps from opening? because of lower humidity or more FAE? or neither

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo]
    #25856757 - 03/06/19 05:38 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

the problem with citing sources is this hobby isn't really grounded by anything peer reviewed. we kinda just wing it and try to hold each other accountable. I'd rather have  a discussion and figure out what makes people think the way they do than track down original sources. I trust experience over some board post from the past.


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25856761 - 03/06/19 05:40 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Cite our own proof. Or what you can

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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25856767 - 03/06/19 05:41 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I was thinking more along the lines of books and articles more than discussion posts but I do see some value in that as well and those would totally be a huge part of it too.
For example if I share a post that you made back in 2015 as my citation for the advice I follow and someone looks at it and remembers figuring out first hand that it was a retarded bit of advice, I would know that my submission is bunk.
I'm just brain storming ways to try and guide the conversations I'm involved in to more of a concise or credible experience than just hearsay.
That doesn't mean first hand experience and reference to that is uncredible though, I've been taking pictures of the most retarded things I do even just to have them for future reference if needed in some random situation on the boards to provide advice.
It takes just a few seconds and its useful even for myself.


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits

Edited by gizmodo (03/06/19 05:42 PM)

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo]
    #25856782 - 03/06/19 05:45 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I agree, the only worthwhile claims are the ones that can be showed.
Quote:

gizmodo said:
I'm still pretty new here and I'm not used to seeing the guns blaze I guess.




the boards used to be full of shit talk and criticism. and it's made mushroom cultivation more streamlined and less fill of trash


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo]
    #25856783 - 03/06/19 05:46 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Problem with books and articles is they don't update over time. You should read some critiques of Stamets books if you wanna see what I'm talking about.

Sometimes the best way is to argue and bring as much info as you can to see how it all shakes out. First hand experience is way more valuable than something a book said years ago imo.

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LtLurker]
    #25856786 - 03/06/19 05:47 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Offlinegizmodo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: gizmodo]
    #25856797 - 03/06/19 05:51 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Right, I agree first hand experience is super valuable. First hand experience is great.
If I do end up sharing something I found in a book or another source I hope to find its bunk news especially if I'm telling others to follow it.. (cause I'd probably be following it too or planning on it) it seems like it is difficult to do that without collaboration like we're doing here.
With my limited space its hard to get the first hand experience of the lot of mycological doings but if I've come across it in a book i'd be more prone to share the information and citation to another even not knowing if it is still relevant.
I might even enjoy being spanked for giving out the wrong advices unbeknownst to me.
I'll have to look into the critiques of his works I knew there were quite a bit of them out there... Bod is a walking PS critic.



--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits

Edited by gizmodo (03/06/19 05:54 PM)

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InvisibleSunnyDayze
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #25856816 - 03/06/19 05:58 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

If the advisor doesn’t have a TC tag I investigate the advice.  There is some bad stuff on here, just hit the search function, you’ll find it.

I like to see the challenges on here, it’s where we really learn a lot, but you have to have a thick skin not to take some of them challenges personal.

Very thankful for all the people who help and especially all the TC’s who spend time in noob  forums giving advice.  You TC’s ever get together in person?  Can’t imagine all of you together it would be like a meeting of the Mensa mushroom minds!


--------------------

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Offlinegizmodo
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SunnyDayze]
    #25856828 - 03/06/19 06:02 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Oh god some of the things I've seen in the search function spook me.
Mushboy has told stories of the days of biohazard bathrooms and bleached walls..
On a good note I sent out a print to someone for the first time today!


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits

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