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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26290706 - 10/31/19 08:46 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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koods said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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koods said: Median income has risen about 1,500 since Trump took office, and the rate of growth is slowing. From 2014 to 2016 median income rose $4,700
It went up $5,003 under Trump according to Census Bureau data. My own income went up over $20,000, for which I don't credit Trump, but it did happen under his watch.
Dude that is an article by a world renowned crackpot economist. Trump wanted to nominate him to the FED and he was told that wouldn’t happen. Pretty dishonest move to call it census bureau data. Government data shows median household income is around 63000.
Why do you continue to parrot trumpist lies?
I've already agreed BLS data is better, which shows that income increases under Trump on average were double that those under Obama, and I also made it clear that "I realize there are a lot of other factors that go into the numbers and that these numbers don't tell the whole story".
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koods said: As you can see in the chart, income growth under trump has slowed.

If you'd rather use FRED data, fine. But don't you think per capita income change is more relevant than household income?

Per capita income increases have been very good under Trump. Again, I'm not saying he deserves all the credit, I'm saying people might see that and say "why not Trump over those whose parties haven't performed as well?"
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
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A lot of other posts were made since I wrote this and fell asleep, but anyway. I would like to see exactly what the census data said and how it was gathered and interpreted. There are such varying figures out there on how much income has increased. I trust the census well enough, but I don't trust the Heritage Foundation.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I agree the Heritage Foundation isn't a very good source; I simply said it was better than nothing.
Did you see the follow up posts with BLS and St Louis Fed data?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I agree the Heritage Foundation isn't a very good source; I simply said it was better than nothing.
No bad data and incorrect facts are not better than nothing
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meltdowner
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26290822 - 10/31/19 10:03 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cannot wait for Trump's second (possibly 3rd) term. He's going to build America again!
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: My own income went up over $20,000, for which I don't credit Trump, but it did happen under his watch.
20 grand is a hell of a wage rise, just saying, not knocking.
You'd expect to see inflation lift a little higher as a result, which isn't a bad thing imo, as it filters down to people similar to myself (as an example) (private contractor) who need to see a lift in inflation as a way to legitimise lifting our charge out rates.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26291015 - 11/01/19 12:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I agree the Heritage Foundation isn't a very good source; I simply said it was better than nothing.
No bad data and incorrect facts are not better than nothing
Drawing conclusions based on nothing is worse than drawing conclusions based on census type data. What reason do you have to believe Sentier Research was using bad data?
Government numbers also showed average annual wage increases were better under Trump than Obama. Again, I don't credit Trump, I'm just sayin'.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Manufacturing lost 36,000 jobs last month. The worst since the depths of the Great Recession September was revised down to a loss of 5;000 jobs. Over the past two months 41,000 manufacturing employees lost their jobs.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.b.htm
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (11/01/19 11:28 AM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26291812 - 11/01/19 11:39 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wrong thread?
Also from the BLS website:
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koods
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Good point. Even the economic recovery slowed under trump
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DividedQuantum
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I just want to point out briefly that, of the people who are working, something like between 30 and 40% are underemployed and many are working two or more jobs. So the economy, as "vibrant" as it is, is not working for multiple tens of millions of working adults. And of course we all know that wages are stagnant. So Trump's conceit about a strong economy is rather ill-founded.
(I read about the underemployment figure some months back, and do not know the source. If anyone can find it, I think it will corroborate what I have said).
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koods
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Jobs report counts actual jobs gained or lost
Unemployment is a random phone sample of 60,000 people
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DividedQuantum
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I just want to point out briefly that, of the people who are working, something like between 30 and 40% are underemployed and many are working two or more jobs. So the economy, as "vibrant" as it is, is not working for multiple tens of millions of working adults. And of course we all know that wages are stagnant. So Trump's conceit about a strong economy is rather ill-founded.
(I read about the underemployment figure some months back, and do not know the source. If anyone can find it, I think it will corroborate what I have said).
Looks like it was less than I thought: https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/millions-americans-underemployed-0820
22 million underemployed, over 7 million unemployed according to U-6: https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/09/25/underemployment-takes-an-outsized-toll-on-the-economy-according-to-a-new-study/#51372f69234e
Unemployment or underemployment among recent college graduates is between 40 and 50%: https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2017/07/13/new-york-fed-highlights-underemployment-among-college-graduates/#3f895f1040d8
I'm sure all that's conservative and the numbers are probably worse.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I just want to point out briefly that, of the people who are working, something like between 30 and 40% are underemployed and many are working two or more jobs. So the economy, as "vibrant" as it is, is not working for multiple tens of millions of working adults. And of course we all know that wages are stagnant. So Trump's conceit about a strong economy is rather ill-founded.
I already pointed out in this very thread that U6 unemployment DOES take those things into account, and it always appears to move together with U3 unemployment (regular unemployment), so if U3 is good so is U6.
And if you have wage data that contradicts what's been shown above by BLS and the St Louis Fed about wages going up, please share it!
Edit: I see you caught U6 before my post.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26291890 - 11/01/19 12:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Jobs report counts actual jobs gained or lost
Unemployment is a random phone sample of 60,000 people
I didn't argue about manufacturing jobs. I argued about total jobs and wages.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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DividedQuantum
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I have no quarrel with the U-6, but I could swear I saw higher numbers for underemployment, but I can't locate them. Maybe not.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Jobs report counts actual jobs gained or lost
Unemployment is a random phone sample of 60,000 people
I didn't argue about manufacturing jobs. I argued about total jobs and wages.
Job growth under trump lags Obama. 2019 has seen meager job growth. 128,000 jobs in October. That is about baseline when you account for population growth.
Trump has done nothing special on wages
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meltdowner
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] 1
#26292132 - 11/01/19 02:02 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Manufacturing lost 36,000 jobs last month. The worst since the depths of the Great Recession September was revised down to a loss of 5;000 jobs. Over the past two months 41,000 manufacturing employees lost their jobs.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.b.htm
Nicely taken out of context. What's the overall unemployment rate there koods?
Oh right, the lowest in 10 years!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
#26292152 - 11/01/19 02:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I didn't argue about manufacturing jobs. I argued about total jobs and wages.
Job growth under trump lags Obama. 2019 has seen meager job growth. 128,000 jobs in October. That is about baseline when you account for population growth.
Trump has done nothing special on wages

Unemployment is the lowest since the 1969; there's really no place left to go, Trump or Democrat.
And your chart shows the rate of wage growth has been slowly increasing. Sure, maybe that's nothting special, but it's certainly nothing people should be upset at Trump about.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
meltdowner said:
Quote:
koods said: Manufacturing lost 36,000 jobs last month. The worst since the depths of the Great Recession September was revised down to a loss of 5;000 jobs. Over the past two months 41,000 manufacturing employees lost their jobs.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.b.htm
Nicely taken out of context. What's the overall unemployment rate there koods?
Oh right, the lowest in 10 years!
So Obama drove the car 3/4 of the way across the country but you want to give trump credit for the whole trip.
GDP growth at 1.9% what happened to the 5% he promised?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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