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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika]
    #26755654 -

Tantrika said:
Metoo said:
Can you please point out where the piece I linked suggests that ethnicity or (some) religions are actively considered by Merriam for the new definition of racism?


Can you please quote the post that somehow gave you the idea that this was my position?



"my information provided has been in line with the definition of racism as is accepted commonly enough to update the dictionary for
the dictionary is a tool that describes the language that exists and is commonly recognized, not prescribes how language is to be used"

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26755683 -

Metoo said:
Tantrika said:
how unfrotunate for you to be so triggered by a dictionary definition not fitting with your perception of how the word is commonly used


Not sure where this came from - I am perfectly happy with the current definition and use it consistently. I cannot comment on the new definition because we do not know what it will but,


You have quoted it in its most recently updated form already
definitions 2 a and b appear to be the new content regarding systemic racism

Metoo said:
You have personally adopted a definition of rasicm which I consider cumbersome, exotic and subjective - meaning based on your particular views on how religions and ethnicity intersect in various cultures around the world - while believing that this is the common use of the term.


Have only used the existing definition
that you find it cumbersome, exotic, and subjective -- because you think my discussion is of my views rather than explaining to you what the dictionary says
is all on you

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26755701 -

Metoo said:
Tantrika said:
Metoo said:
Can you please point out where the piece I linked suggests that ethnicity or (some) religions are actively considered by Merriam for the new definition of racism?


Can you please quote the post that somehow gave you the idea that this was my position?



"my information provided has been in line with the definition of racism as is accepted commonly enough to update the dictionary for
the dictionary is a tool that describes the language that exists and is commonly recognized, not prescribes how language is to be used"


Oh, I get it now
you do not realize that the dictionary has already been updated multiple times before being updated to add systemic racism
that is why you don't recognize a quote, supplied by the dictionary, using the term racism to describe discriminatory treatment against people based on ethnic identity
was already applicable to my explanation of the definition to you
as of 1995

if you want the actual "source" for why that quote recognizing discrimination based on ethnicity as racism is used on the racism page
then you need to stop by the page that also notes race and ethnicity as synonymous
you need to understand that they are linguistically treated as the same thing (whereas, contrary to your previous belief, masking something and changing something are not)
to be able to recognize their interchangable use as labels

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26755744 -

Tantrika said:
You have quoted it in its most recently updated form already
definitions 2 a and b appear to be the new content regarding systemic racism



Yes, I am using the current (i.e. most recent) definition but no, it does not include the changes hinted in the NYT article dated June 2020 - here is the Wayback screengrab of the Merriam page taken in Feb 2020


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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26755753 -

thanks for the insight, shall see in that case
to me notation of racism's involvement in social systems is an adequate descriptor of systemic racism
but perhaps the aim is to add more detail to the sub headings, in that case

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika]
    #26755774 -

Tantrika said:
thanks for the insight, shall see in that case
to me notation of racism's involvement in social systems is an adequate descriptor of systemic racism
but perhaps the aim is to add more detail to the sub headings, in that case


We will see indeed. As I mentioned, I will go along with whatever changes they make - in the interest of clarity and consistency.

Thank you for sharing your views!

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26756279 -

Metoo said:
Tantrika said:
concepts can be referred to without explicit use of their label please underline the part of the above statement you fail to comprehend



What I am struggling with is your claim that "the existing definition already covers ethnicity" Here is the Merriam excerpt directly under the heading Definition of racism:

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism
3: racial prejudice or discrimination

The para you quoted - which also does not mention ethnicity - is under the heading of Examples of racism in a Sentence, it is not the Merriam definition.

It is depressing that not only can we not agree on what the common language use of the term racism currently is but also we cannot agree on what the current definition printed in the dictionary is.


A dictionary definition is less than 100 words. Do you expect to understand complex social phenomena that way. The learning curve starts at a couple years and extends to maybe 20.

In case you haven't noticed "simple Simon" doesn't work very well around here, or in any other environments where intelligent people discuss social issues. I'm not saying you're not intelligent. I think you are, but you don't want to play it that way.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26756314 -

No, in a dictionary definition I would expect a concise description of what they think something means so that people in public interactions have a common reference.

No, have not noticed this forum being different from others of similar scope. Those who know how to make a point do it quickly and those who can't take forever - and often end up patronising others.

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26756318 -

Metoo said:
Those who know how to make a point do it quickly and those who can't take forever - and often end up patronising others.


like how it took you multiple pages to make clear that you did not comprehend the dictionary definition recognizes discrimination based on ethnicity as racism
while you were busy acting as tho the definition that existed due to its recognized common usage
was strange, particular to me, and marginally accepted

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26756514 -

Well, he's using Webster's dictionary.  According to Webster's, the word "race" itself includes:

Quote:
a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics


Under that definition, race is already way broader than even you or I have been arguing.  Therefore, racism has already encompassed LGBTQ discrimination, religious discrimination, and lots more, according to webster.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26756630 -

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-hes-heard-interesting-things-about-roswell/ar-BB15GAOy?ocid=spartandhp

Trump has heard interesting things about Roswell, but he's not going to talk about them.

Because some anal probes are too painful to even talk about.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26756678 -

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-describes-mail-in-voting-as-biggest-threat-to-reelection/ar-BB15IpON?ocid=spartandhp

Trump describes mail-in voting as biggest threat to his reelection. Actually, voting is the biggest threat to his reelection.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26756797 -

Thats cause all the kids and libs are too cool to vote :lol:

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika]
    #26757035 -

Tantrika said:
Metoo said:
Those who know how to make a point do it quickly and those who can't take forever - and often end up patronising others.


like how it took you multiple pages to make clear that you did not comprehend the dictionary definition recognizes discrimination based on ethnicity as racism
while you were busy acting as tho the definition that existed due to its recognized common usage
was strange, particular to me, and marginally accepted


Was that when it took you multiple pages to realise that the current definition does not include the proposed changes you thought it did?

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26757062 -

Metoo said:
Was that when it took you multiple pages to realise that the current definition does not include the proposed changes you thought it did?


You mean the "proposed changes" you attributed to me but were never actually my thoughts because my point was showing you that ethnicity is included already?

Yeah, you made up that bull shit, then when it was pointed out you were miscomprehending the issue or willfully lying about it (more likely the latter, now that you are going back to the lie after having been corrected)
you then proceeded to try and tell me that you were just trying to be helpful and find an agreed upon definition rather than the one that had already been agreed upon and published in the dictionary
because you did not agree with the existing definition

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26757065 -

Enlil said:
Under that definition, race is already way broader than even you or I have been arguing.  Therefore, racism has already encompassed LGBTQ discrimination, religious discrimination, and lots more, according to webster.



Which would directly contradict your claim that
"Being amish is something that one chooses. That's a completely different thing.  Discrimination on the basis of religion is prejudice."

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Tantrika]
    #26757073 -

No, I mean the changes proposed by Merriam which, before being presented with the Wayback, you thought were already included in the current definition

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26757084 -

Metoo said:
Enlil said:
Under that definition, race is already way broader than even you or I have been arguing.  Therefore, racism has already encompassed LGBTQ discrimination, religious discrimination, and lots more, according to webster.



Which would directly contradict your claim that
"Being amish is something that one chooses. That's a completely different thing.  Discrimination on the basis of religion is prejudice."



It doesn't contradict it at all.  You asked MY definition of racism.  You've been arguing the Webster's dictionary definition.  According to Webster, I'm a racist.  According to me, I'm not. 

For clarity, however, let me make it clear right now that I am prejudiced against anyone who believes in fairytales and mystical sky wizards, regardless of the name that he/she may give the wizard.  My dislike of the Amish is not related to their chosen wizard, however.  It is related to the cultural tolerance and encouragement of cruelty to animals.

I'm okay with being called a racist, though, so have at it if you want.

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26757088 -

Metoo said:
No, I mean the changes proposed by Merriam which, before being presented with the Wayback, you thought were already included in the current definition


Ah, so you mean my misperception that was stated at 10:18 PM and then clarified 2 posts later at 10:41 PM

can see how you would try to falsely portray that as having lasted pages
after your inability to comprehend the inclusion of ethnicity objectively lasted multiple pages

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Re: PLUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26757131 -

I have no problem with your views, just thought that in the context of this discussion it was worthwhile to point out that, according to the current dictionary definition, you are a racist in denial

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