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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy] * 1
    #26109330 - 07/15/19 09:37 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

We did a lot to increase the vietnam war and fight soviets in afghanistan.  A shit ton.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26109346 - 07/15/19 09:46 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

... and gave Iran a nuclear reactor with instructions on how to use it :facepalm3:

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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26109828 - 07/15/19 03:03 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
That explains some things.




You sound sad :frown:.. maybe you should just leave the country.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue] * 4
    #26110082 - 07/15/19 05:06 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

You sound like you should you think a little more before you talk. This is a debate forum. All your posts a variation of: HaHaHa. Trump won. Contribute something.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
Antichrist Jr.
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue]
    #26110103 - 07/15/19 05:15 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:






lol laziest kind of trump memes. just slap his fat turkey wattle face onto a movie or tv show and BOOM instant flood of likes/retweets on social media. no green new deal bc those people have hamberders for brains..


:argh:


and no that is not a vote of support for the green new deal lol.


--------------------
I am an extremist

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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26110110 - 07/15/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You sound like you should you think a little more before you talk. This is a debate forum. All your posts a variation of: HaHaHa. Trump won. Contribute something.





you know that the capitalized h's for HaHa are supposed to represent the phrase "heil hitler", right? all the "clown world" memes  are nazi rhetoric being baby fed into the population to soften them up to the ideas of their plans for subjugation and genocide. just google "honkler" or "clown world holocaust" if you don't believe it lol.


--------------------
I am an extremist

Edited by DontFearThePeepr (07/15/19 07:24 PM)

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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26110129 - 07/15/19 05:24 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We did a lot to increase the vietnam war and fight soviets in afghanistan.  A shit ton.




(So we didn't start them.)

What do you mean? In the smaller sense, there was a war going on. In the bigger sense, there was a Cold War going on.

It sounds like you're saying we should have let the Soviets do as they pleased and gobble up more countries to put behind the Iron Curtain and force more people to live under a communist government that had already killed 40 million+ of its "own" people. A communist government whose stated aim was the violent overthrow of free market economies and representative governments.

I must be mistaken.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26110167 - 07/15/19 05:36 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Free markets are like squatch, cool if you find one but dont hold your breath.


--------------------


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26110189 - 07/15/19 05:43 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

I agree.
BYW, you contribute quite well to the forum.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy] * 2
    #26110210 - 07/15/19 05:55 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We did a lot to increase the vietnam war and fight soviets in afghanistan.  A shit ton.




(So we didn't start them.)

What do you mean? In the smaller sense, there was a war going on. In the bigger sense, there was a Cold War going on.

It sounds like you're saying we should have let the Soviets do as they pleased and gobble up more countries...



Ah, now it makes sense why you think "the commies started that mess".

No, we shouldn't let 'the Soviets do as they please'.  We should let THE PEOPLE do as they please.  80% of Vietnam supported communist Ho Chi Minh, but the US stepped in anyway.  How do you win a war when the majority are against you?  You don't.

The US needs to learn that lesson.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26110247 - 07/15/19 06:09 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We did a lot to increase the vietnam war and fight soviets in afghanistan.  A shit ton.




(So we didn't start them.)

What do you mean? In the smaller sense, there was a war going on. In the bigger sense, there was a Cold War going on.

It sounds like you're saying we should have let the Soviets do as they pleased and gobble up more countries to put behind the Iron Curtain and force more people to live under a communist government that had already killed 40 million+ of its "own" people. A communist government whose stated aim was the violent overthrow of free market economies and representative governments.

I must be mistaken.





We contributed a lot more resources than the conflicts were going to before our involvment.  Vietnam was a little spat before we put billions into making it worse.

That's what happens when America practiced not well thought out police actions.  They got better at it.  Still yet to master it.  It's pretty much pull out by such in such date now.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26110266 - 07/15/19 06:20 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We did a lot to increase the vietnam war and fight soviets in afghanistan.  A shit ton.




(So we didn't start them.)

What do you mean? In the smaller sense, there was a war going on. In the bigger sense, there was a Cold War going on.

It sounds like you're saying we should have let the Soviets do as they pleased and gobble up more countries...



Ah, now it makes sense why you think "the commies started that mess".

No, we shouldn't let 'the Soviets do as they please'.  We should let THE PEOPLE do as they please.  80% of Vietnam supported communist Ho Chi Minh, but the US stepped in anyway.  How do you win a war when the majority are against you?  You don't.

The US needs to learn that lesson.




So when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, that was the Afghanis yearning for communism?

After we left Vietnam, more than 1 million Vietnamese were sent to re-education camps. 165,000 died.

Over 1 million South Vietnamese were forcibly relocated to uninhabited forested mountain areas as part of "New Economic Zones." Up to 155,000 died.

2 million boat people tried to flee to, among other places, the eeevil USA who had been denying them their preferred communist government. 200,000 to 400,000 died in the attempt.

Meanwhile, Vietnam was one of the poorest countries in the world. Until 1986 when they started getting away from communism.

That's what the Vietnamese wanted?

Oh, and next door, the same ideology infected Cambodia, and Pol Pot killed 2 million of 7 million Cambodians.

But they wanted it. Good and hard.

That's your argument? OK, try this one: the Germans wanted National Socialism. Why did we intervene to keep Nazi Germany from spreading National Socialism? Yeah some people died, but that's what the Germans wanted.
----

Closer to the truth is that Ho Chi Minh himself was popular. Communism was a way for him to get help from the Soviets. The Soviets did the same thing they'd been doing: providing material support to spread communism and turn Vietnam into a client state.

Communists, remember, have a stated aim of violent overthrow of free markets and representative governments. That was us.

And you say we were supposed to sit by and let the Soviets spread communism.

Doesn't sound wise.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26110285 - 07/15/19 06:26 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

It is not wise.

Lot's more vietnamese died during the conflict.  Daily people who were uneducated had to decide politics based on who was controlling.  One day it's a gi raping your daughter, burning your village and dumping your rice.  Another it's a nva that has a type 56 for you to deal with that.

Of course you'll be vc.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Morel Guy] * 2
    #26110342 - 07/15/19 06:55 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

damn, you guys are smart af. just wanted to say this thread has been a really interesting read.


:cheers:


--------------------
I am an extremist

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26110359 - 07/15/19 07:01 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Let's not forget how France fucked up Vietnam.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26110364 - 07/15/19 07:03 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

That's why they turned commie with a lot of Asia.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26110826 - 07/15/19 11:20 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No, we shouldn't let 'the Soviets do as they please'.  We should let THE PEOPLE do as they please.  80% of Vietnam supported communist Ho Chi Minh, but the US stepped in anyway.  How do you win a war when the majority are against you?  You don't.

The US needs to learn that lesson.




So when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, that was the Afghanis yearning for communism?



No.  The ruling party of Afghanistan tried to introduce Western reforms to Afghanistan, such as separation of Mosque and State, abolition of sharia law, equal rights for women, universal education, elimination of forced marriages, minimum wage, etc.

Religious nut jobs (The Mujahideen) didn't like the reforms and began a civil war.  The Afghan Government then sought help from the Soviet Union to help put down the rebellion.  The Soviets preferred progressive neighbors to religious nut jobs.

Of course, the US stood up for the religious nut jobs, which included Osama Bin Laden.  :flowstone:

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
After we left Vietnam, more than 1 million Vietnamese were sent to re-education camps. 165,000 died.

Over 1 million South Vietnamese were forcibly relocated to uninhabited forested mountain areas as part of "New Economic Zones." Up to 155,000 died.



I'll bet those numbers would be FAR lower if the US never intervened.

And you seem to struggle with the concept of majority rule. 

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Meanwhile, Vietnam was one of the poorest countries in the world. Until 1986 when they started getting away from communism.

That's what the Vietnamese wanted?



You don't think US-led trade embargos and denied reconstruction aid helped make them a lot poorer?  The US spends much of it's foreign efforts keeping communism down.  Why do you think you and I aren't free to travel to Cuba for a vacation?

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
try this one: the Germans wanted National Socialism. Why did we intervene to keep Nazi Germany from spreading National Socialism? Yeah some people died, but that's what the Germans wanted.




:lolwut:

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Closer to the truth is that Ho Chi Minh himself was popular. Communism was a way for him to get help from the Soviets. The Soviets did the same thing they'd been doing: providing material support to spread communism and turn Vietnam into a client state.

Communists, remember, have a stated aim of violent overthrow of free markets and representative governments.



And we have a goal of preventing the spread of communism, at about any cost.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26110923 - 07/16/19 01:26 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:


No.  The ruling party of Afghanistan tried to introduce Western reforms to Afghanistan, such as separation of Mosque and State, abolition of sharia law, equal rights for women, universal education, elimination of forced marriages, minimum wage, etc.

Religious nut jobs (The Mujahideen) didn't like the reforms and began a civil war.  The Afghan Government then sought help from the Soviet Union to help put down the rebellion.  The Soviets preferred progressive neighbors to religious nut jobs.

Of course, the US stood up for the religious nut jobs, which included Osama Bin Laden.  :flowstone:




Wow. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't intentionally trying to mislead. The "ruling party" was a bunch of commie army officers who overthrew (natch) the legitimate government and had no popular support with the...you know...intensely religious Muslim population, who weren't friendly with godless commies. (Speaking of struggling with the concept of majority rule.)

And so in this case, "religious nutjobs" was pretty much everybody in Afghanistan. And so they started insurgencies. And the Afghan commies who took control by force called the Soviets for help, and the Soviets invaded. And we helped the population, not the oppressive, illegitimate government aided by invading Soviets who'd already killed 40+ million people.

We're awful.

And yes, bin Laden was one of them. Our crystal ball must've been on the fritz. We should have known that helping bin Laden fight the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets would make him hate...us. :flowstone:

So since you weren't being misleading, the reason you didn't say all this is because you must not have known all this.

Right?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SavoryGravy] * 1
    #26110954 - 07/16/19 02:19 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And you say we were supposed to sit by and let the Soviets spread communism.



Yup. We literally were the allies of the soviets and LET them have a third of Europe. Our interventions mostly failed anyways. We really did a bad job of preventing it.

I doubt Cuba would still be communist if we had just let them be instead of waging economic war against the country for 60 years. Other nations don’t appreciate “freedom” when it’s imposed.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (07/16/19 02:24 AM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
    #26111115 - 07/16/19 07:16 AM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DontFearThePeepr said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
You sound like you should you think a little more before you talk. This is a debate forum. All your posts a variation of: HaHaHa. Trump won. Contribute something.





you know that the capitalized h's for HaHa are supposed to represent the phrase "heil hitler", right? all the "clown world" memes  are nazi rhetoric being baby fed into the population to soften them up to the ideas of their plans for subjugation and genocide. just google "honkler" or "clown world holocaust" if you don't believe it lol.




I'm old and there is a lot of new stuff I don't know. I googled honkler and I'm still confused. I have only known about 4chan for a month. I used to lurk on the Overgrow site for years and for most of that time I had no clue what LOL was.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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